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Zoom or not Zoom that is the question?

Discussion in 'Photography Forums' started by sinbrad, Apr 15, 2005.

  1. sinbrad

    sinbrad
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    Ok, here's the scenario along with a couple of photo's to show what I mean. The first photo of each group was taken without any zoom applied. The second photo was taken with zooming into the subject until I could compare it to what I could actually see with my naked eye and the third was after applying 6x optical zoom. So is this zoom technology a load of cobblers. What I would expect to see without using zoom would be a scene comparable to that which I would be able to see with my naked eye and then to be able to zoom right into it! Your thoughts and comments appreciated?

    sorry about clarity of photo's as had to resize to allow upload!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    When your camera has the zoom fully out (widest shot) the lens will not be set to 1x because many people will use this setting for wide angle shots ie if in a small room you may want to get a picture of a group of people on a sofa. Due to the tight space you can't get back enough at 1x zoom to get them all in so need the wider angle that most cameras offer.

    Mark.
     
  3. martynk

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    MarkE19 is right. You don't mention the camera and lens but most 35mms give 1:1 reproduction - what the eye sees - with the lens set at about 50mm. Anything less starts to become wide angle, and anything greater gives a telephoto effect. Digitals vary a bit but most of them have a crop factor around 1.5 or 1.6, so the 50mm equivalent will be about 35mm. Hope this helps.
     
  4. sinbrad

    sinbrad
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    Sorry guys forgot to mention the camera :oops:

    It is a "Canon Powershot S1 is" digital camera with a 10x optical zoom lense.The lense is a 5.8(w) - 58(t)mm (38 - 380mm equiv). My other question is when then does the zoom actually come into play. If a manufacturer claims it's cameras have a 10x zoom then I would expect it to be able to magnify the scene that I see with my naked eye by 10x but to me this doesn't seem to happen. It only seems to make any difference between 6x and 10x. Ok there is 3.2 digital zoom but that's something else, optical being the natural zoom?
     
  5. HotblackDesiato

    HotblackDesiato
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    The 10x refers here to lens itself, an image taken at 58mm being magnified by 10x relative to the image taken at 5.8.

    In old money, where what you see with the naked eye is 1, you have from 0.75 of normal size to around 7.6 times of normal size. At focal lengths greater than 7.6mm (50mm equiv) you start magnifying the object relative to what you see.
     
  6. seany

    seany
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    The field of few for a human eye is said to be roughly the same as 50mm. Lenses in this range are said to be of normal focal length. Our eyes are used to seeing that way, and that is why wide angle is often thought more interesting then normal range.

    I had the S1 nice camera, no Af assist lamp though. Made it a bit iffy for focusing indoors
     
  7. geofftelforduk

    geofftelforduk
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    Seany - Does that mean that a lens below 50mm is considered to be wide angle?
     
  8. sinbrad

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    So infact what manufacturers are doing is misleading the customer because if the field of view of a human eye is roughly 50mm and a camera is quoted at 10x zoom with a lense of 5.8 to 58mm then it is not magnifying the human eye view as that would lead to 500mm equivalent. In theory it is a magnification equivalent of 8mm more than the human eye. I'm just thinking along the lines of someone who goes into a shop and is told that a camera with a whopping zoom is going to be great where infact it will be nothing like what you would expect. Now if camera's where capable of magnifying the view of the human eye with the figures they quote for zoom lense that would be something?
     
  9. HotblackDesiato

    HotblackDesiato
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    10X zoom is exactly that. So a 50-500mm and 35-350 both offer 10x zoom, but only the latter would offer 10x magnification relative to eye view. I guess it's confusing rather than misleading.
     
  10. MattB1

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    Hi,

    No they're not misleading customers. It is 10X the widest angle of the camera. Nowhere do camera manufacturers ever say they will magnify 10X what the human eye would see. That may be the misconception of the person buying the camera but that's not the camera manufacturers fault.

    Matt.
     
  11. nobackwheel

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    it's been covered already - you're confusing zoom with magnification

    zoom just means you can change the focal length of a lens

    I can see why you might be confused, but I don't think the manufacturers mislead people (on this issue)
     
  12. thebigkung

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    Summary,

    The Lens has a 10x Zoom Range.

    An image taken when the lens is set to 58mm is 10 time larger then an image taken when the lens is set to 5.8mm

    The magnification if the image when the lens is set to 58mm compaired to the view of the human eye is approx 7.6x greater.

    Fin. :D
     
  13. MattB1

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    No because a human eye sees approximately the same as a 50mm lens so 58mm isn't 7.6X
     
  14. dolph

    dolph
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    But the 58mm is equivalent to about 380mm on a 35mm camera which is 7.6x 50mm
     
  15. seany

    seany
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    Well that depends on how far under you go.

    Have a look at these shots.

    These are 50mm
    http://www.pbase.com/joubert/50mm

    16-35 mm http://www.pbase.com/joubert/1635

    24-70 mm http://www.pbase.com/joubert/24_70


    Even with the crop factor, you can see on the 16-35 when its at 16 mm how different it looks then how we actually see with our eyes.

    Where as the 50mm looks more natural to how we see (even with the crop factor). To me the wide angle shots have more interest because its not how we see.
     
  16. sinbrad

    sinbrad
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    Ok, maybe the manufacturers are not misleading anyone and I know they don't state that they can magnify the human eye view by whatever zoom range the camera has. I think it is more down to the people who sell the camera who don't really know the difference between zoom and magnification? Anyhow my point that I was trying to make, looking at the photo's that I took, in the first post, is that when you point the camera without any sort of zoom applied the resulting picture looks like you had taken it looking through the wrong end of a pair of bino's. When you apply the so called zoom, in this case 10x, it is not what you would expect to see as a result. The only time it looks closer is when you then apply the digital zoom and that's pants! To me it is though the optical zoom takes you from something at a distance to that which you would see normally, pointless?
     
  17. seany

    seany
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    To me it is though the optical zoom takes you from something at a distance to that which you would see normally, pointless?

    Well thats is exactly what its for. To enable you to get a shot from a longer distance then you'd otherwise be able to. Not pointless at all, it's very important part of photography. Sport and nature photography being two of the most important reasons to have a zoom lens.

    You can't walk on to a football pitch or on to a race track with a 50mm lens

    You cant capture a deer if you're stood 10 feet from it

    you can't capture a great candid shot if you're right next to your subject.

    Zooms are not not pointless, they're actually priceless
     
  18. sinbrad

    sinbrad
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    well it seems that I am not able to get my point across so I'm going to end it there and say thanks for all your comments
     
  19. mr jones

    mr jones
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    its a ZOOM LENS not a ZOOM EYE, 10x zoom is as mentioned 10 times the widest setting of the lens.at no point do they state that it magnifies what you see, only what the camera see's i.e the lens and the CCD. at the extend of its zoom range, the lens does indeed zoom in 10 times on the image.


    btw your getting your point across quite well, what your seemingly trying to do is suggest that the camera manufacturer is at fault for something when actualy it isnt, its your understanding of lens, zoom and magnification thats at fault :lesson:
     
  20. sinbrad

    sinbrad
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    That's why I started this thread in the first place as i couldn't get my head around the zoom concept. I'm not blaming the manufacturers I was stating that when a camera is sold in a shop etc when the seller explains the zoom to you they are actually misleading because I don't think most of them know what they are talking about. I did also state that when you take a photo without any zoom applied the resultant photo was not as expected ie the subject matter is a lot further away than it actually was when looking by naked eye. of course the camera magnifies the image it sees but if the image the camera is seeing is placed further away due to the way a camera functions then when you do zoom in on the subject it is bringing a shot that at the beginning is further away closer.
     

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