1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Z1 v Z2 demo - first impressions

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by saturday, Nov 25, 2003.

  1. saturday

    saturday
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2003
    Messages:
    86
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sussex
    Ratings:
    +0
    Had a demo today.

    I'm still wavering on which pj to buy for my first hc experience. On price and reviews the Z1 is looking best but now there is the Z2 to consider! To help me choose, I had a demo of both today. As you will see, I'm no expert and I don't know whether the following will add anything to other posts on the forum but here are my views:

    The demo room was good and dark with the projectors set up 14' from the (110") screen. Seating was about 12' from the screen (pj on a stand just behind the seating). This is pretty close to my room size. I think the DVD player was a Denon and it was connected via component. Both pjs were out of the box (default settings).

    First up the Z1. At this seating position I think I was too close to the screen for this projector. Screendoor definately apparent. Not terrible but too much for me - slightly defocussing certainly helped. Colours were good, if a little warm. Contrast was good. Brightness was good too even on low bulb setting. All in all a very watchable picture. Fan noise from just behind my head was a little louder than I would have liked. Moving to stand behind the pj improved things greatly. Screendoor disappeared. I did notice though that there was quite a lot of light spill out of the back of the projector. If it was on a low table in front of the seating position I wonder whether this would be annoying.

    Moving on to the Z2. Immediately noticed an improvement to contrast and brightness. A really sumptious, punchy engaging picture. No screendoor visible but disappointingly, very noticeable fine vertical lines a bit like thin pencil lines (is this banding?). Where this was really noticeable was in moving areas of fine detail - they sort of shimmered and looked out of focus (as the detail moved across the lines?). I didn't like this at all. The fan was virtually silent on low bulb mode but was too noisy on high. As an experiment I moved the projector to just in front of the seating. The shimmering was much less evident and the picture looked great (about 90" diagonal) from the seating position. No light spill from the back of the projector.

    So which will I choose? I think probably the Z2 but I'm a bit worried about the lines I could see. I think I'll have to go back for a second demo armed this time with any recommendations anyone can give me for adjustments from the defaults that may improve things (I had a quick fiddle with things but seemed to cause as many problems as I improved).
     
  2. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    Well if the dealer is up to it, tell them that you can fiddle in the factory menu, setting number 14 seems to be helping with the banding you are describing

    ad
     
  3. Timh

    Timh
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2000
    Messages:
    4,805
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Altair-4
    Ratings:
    +128
    Was the dvd player outputting progressive scan, if not this could probably help with the vertical lines on the Z2. I noticed an improvement on my AE100 when going progressive.
     
  4. theritz

    theritz
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    2,451
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +27
    That's vertical banding............................ whatever about a "red push" out of the box, and the need to calibrate (which lots of us tweakers would welcome !), VB is a far less welcome feature. Certainly hope that the service menu tweaks quoted will do the trick..............



    Sean G.
     
  5. saturday

    saturday
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2003
    Messages:
    86
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Sussex
    Ratings:
    +0
    buns - I got the impression that the dealer was rather surprised just how bad the banding was so I think that being able to get into the (factory?) menu should be OK. Do you have a link you could point me at for details?

    Timh - sorry, didn't pay too much attention to the player. I will though when I go back.

    theritz - not sure what you mean by "red push". Do you mean poor colour balance without tweaking? Didn't seem too bad to me - I quite like a warm colour saturation as long as it's only slight. I was left with the impression that the Z2 is a great pj (for the money) and would benefit from calibration. However, untweaked, the banding is too much for me to consider buying it. If it can be got rid of then I think it is the best lcd pj I've seen in its price band.
     
  6. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    Saturday,

    I would get links, but things are being very slow..... must be ntl or something along those lines. Anyhow, look in the sub $3500 digital projector section at AVSforum for loads of info. However, this may suffice:

    Factory Mode - Press "Select" and "Input" together on the projector 5-10 Seconds to get into "factory" mode.

    Service Mode - Press "Menu" and "Input" together on the projector 5-10 Seconds to get into "service" mode.

    Exit from Factory or Service Mode - Press "On/Off" on the projector or the remote control once.


    As I mention, try #14 in the factory menu for the VB.

    also try looking here , it may be for the Z1, but the tweaks have been shown to work for both.

    I think I have read that Sean's description of a 'red push' suggests a color decoder issue which in fact there is not. What he means is that there is a small issue with the greyscale such that the red is pronounced when it shouldnt be. The fact that it is greyscale and not color decoder is important because it means it can be relatively easily fixed. Again if your dealer is up to it and has a color meter and software, it should just be a case of playing with menus 1-6 in the service menu, these are the gain and bias settings which can alter the greyscale to be more accurate thus minimising if not eliminating the red concern.

    Ad
     
  7. Kramer

    Kramer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Really looking forward to seeing the Z2 on Friday - I'll sort 'em out :smashin:
     
  8. docfeelgood

    docfeelgood
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    237
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +1
    Jeez.... you guys are talking about fixes and tweaks on a £1500 product.

    I don't think that VB out of the box is acceptable... no matter how much we want to like the Z2.

    I'd either wait for a fix from sanyo or buy something else.

    just my opinion of course :)


    best regards
    Doc
     
  9. Jeff

    Jeff
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    5,489
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Basingstoke
    Ratings:
    +256
    Most projectors have problems that can't be fixed, so if all it takes is a fiddle in the advanced settings....think yourself lucky.
     
  10. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    where are you seeing it? long look or just a short flash?

    ad
     
  11. Kramer

    Kramer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Was thinking of a short look & a long flash :D

    Travelling extensively throughout the UK end of this week & early next. Several invites - in negotiation at present :eek:

    Hell, I might even buy a couple while I'm there :clap:


    ....Kramer wonders what all this talk of service/factory menus, red "push", VB etc... is all about....



    :smoke:
     
  12. fred123go

    fred123go
    Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,040
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Cobham, Surrey
    Ratings:
    +0
    i have to admit the VB is a bit much, even worse then my 200 and any other pj i have seen-since i have had a proper look tonight.
    The picture would be perfect if it wasn't for the VB, i will try a few of the factory settings tomorrow and see if they work-hopefully they will.
    Another problem is this very slight green part to the bottom right of my screen, it could be dust within the lamp-i saw some when i was using it.
    I can see a lot of dissapointed first time buyers who are buying from Ivojo.
    I might call up Sanyo tomorrow and see if i can get it repaired/fixed.
    Fred
    p.s Kramer if you are passing through Surrey then pop into mine and you can have a wee look and see if this green tinge problem is nothing to worry about
     
  13. theritz

    theritz
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    2,451
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +27
    Yip, that's it - no problem to sort out for someone competent.....

    If the VB issue can be satisfactorily resolved through the service menu, then it should be a non-issue - I (and others, I think) would think that it shouldn't be there in the first place, sorting that out should be done as part of the projector QC, imo. For the "enthusiast" breed, provided it can be tweaked out, it shouldn't be a "deal-breaker".

    I await with interest Kramer's take on this - he should be able to establish for members here whether the VB can be "dialled out" (probably sooner than some projectors will be reaching their prospective owners.......)

    There is understandable curiousity with the attention this projector is getting - remember that this is a breakthrough product in terms of resolution, contrast, noise level and ease of installation;

    I will be interested to see whether the sum of these on-paper specs will impress in the flesh.

    Sean G.
     
  14. Kramer

    Kramer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Might happen :eek:

    Thanks for the invite :)

    Impress the flesh :eek:

    Cleaning my glasses as I type :D
     
  15. nunew33

    nunew33
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Messages:
    1,735
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Location:
    Lytham St Annes, where people are put out to grass
    Ratings:
    +2
    Kramer now has the power to wipe out the Ivojo preorder, thats a fair sum of money!!!
     
  16. Quatermass

    Quatermass
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I wonder just how much Sanyo have been twiddling with the Z2 during the delay period. The delay Ivojo preorderers have suffered might yet turn out to be a good thing. For instance, the projectors that ivojoers receive might be better tweaked (out of the box) than the one Fred got. Also, got to wonder whether Fred’s (at that price) wasn’t graded stock anyway.

    AE500 vb said to be even worse than Z2 and possibly less tweakable!
     
  17. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    well we shouldnt be panicing...... avs isn't, they have alot more machines being looked at and alot of experienced eyes, so dont fear

    ad
     
  18. Quatermass

    Quatermass
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Agree with you there Buns. All we need is calm :)

    ps - hence loss of signature!:
     
  19. fred123go

    fred123go
    Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,040
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Cobham, Surrey
    Ratings:
    +0
    i will try some settings from avsforums tonight on my Z2 and see how they work, will report back
    Fred
     
  20. buns

    buns
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +1
    just remember to be careful! You dont have a nice dealer who will call you a tit for fiddling and get it sorted! Sanyo themselves may not be so nice about it!

    ad
     

Share This Page

Loading...