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Your Thoughts on Sagem Axium HD-D56B & Toshiba 52WM48

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Ruby, Sep 7, 2005.

  1. Ruby

    Ruby
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    I currently have 4 day old Samsung SP50L7HX which I'm hoping to return to where I got it from (avwow.com). I'm not happy with black levels (in dark scenes) produced by this model. I've tried various settings (including using a THX optimizer), and I've also tried what I believe is the ultimate black test - I reduced the brightness to 0. Even then, the blacks remained a darkish grey colour. I know other forum members who own this same model are generally happy with the black levels, which makes me think that perhaps their is a fault with my set. I can't find any other way to explain the fact that the black levels on my 5 year old Toshiba 4:3 rear-projection TV blow the pants off the Samsung.

    Anyway, if avwow.com allow the exchange/refund, I don't know what other model to go for. I'm considering the Toshiba 52WM48 and the Sagem Axium HD-D56B. I'd be interested to know anybody's thoughts about these models, especially in regards to the black levels during dark scenes.
     
  2. dunsters

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    The black levels and in fact all colours are superb on the Sagem :smashin: matching the THX contrast settings 100% and providing deep vibrant tones.:clap:

    Cheers:hiya:
     
  3. kmhtkmhtkmht

    kmhtkmhtkmht
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    It's the mack.
     
  4. Bandog

    Bandog
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    As a complete newbie and inexerience bloke all round, I have to say, I am unbelieveably happy with my Sagem, yes it is only the HD45 and not the 56 but the picture clarity is mind blowing.

    This is just a laymans thoughts.
     
  5. indie24

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    hmmm. The black levels on my sp50 are great. Ive never noticed any grey looking blacks. Im not sure what the other sp50 owners think
     
  6. Razor

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    Nor have I on my RD65. Blacks are one of its strong points. Certainly a CRT rear pro should not be outperforming a DLP set on Black levels.
     
  7. Br41ns

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    :hiya:

    No problems with black levels on my sp50, the blacks in blade trinity are as black as a black thing! :D
     
  8. Ruby

    Ruby
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    Your responses make me think more and more that there must be a fault of some kind with my set. I'm not nit-picking when I say the black levels during dark scenes are really c**p. Even my wife noticed this problem, and she's about as far as you can get from a being a home theatre enthusiast.

    I've emailed avwow.com abou a refund/exchange. Let's wait and see what they say.
     
  9. indie24

    indie24
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    cant you go to your local comet or currys to see a sp50 and check the black levels on that
     
  10. Ruby

    Ruby
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    indie24,

    Something that I have noticed on all rear-projection sets is that blacks will appear blacker when the lights are turned on in your room. The real test is to see black levels during proper viewing conditions, which is to have most if not all of the lights turned off. All of the stores near me that have the Samsung, have placed the set in a well lit area.
     
  11. indie24

    indie24
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    did you turn your contrast up?
     
  12. Ruby

    Ruby
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    indie24,

    I've got contrast set to 85 at the moment, but I have tried it higher as well.
     
  13. Ruby

    Ruby
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    Can the Sagem 56 inch handle NTSC?
     
  14. dunsters

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    Yes - no problem:thumbsup: .

    With NTSC there are additional options such as Tone setting in the PQ settings which do not appear for PAL.
    On the other hand, the manual notes NTSC consists of 720 points per line and 480 lines per picture. PAL consists of 720 points per line and 576 lines per picture, whereas, the Sagem has been designed for 1280 points per line and 720 lines per picture giving it a much higher resolution then HDTV in either format.:D

    Cheers:hiya:
     
  15. indie24

    indie24
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    All current DLPs are 1280 x 720
     
  16. dunsters

    dunsters
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    I know. I was just making a silly point about HTPC HD output v scaled PAL or NTSC :D The 1:1 pixel discussion is interesting though.:smashin:


    Cheers:hiya:
     
  17. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    Ruby - the SP50s I auditioned (2 of) had superb black levels, even under showroom lighting.

    I bought the new Samsung 46" model and blacks are equally impressive.

    One thing to try would be to play with the gamma settings in the service menu. Gamma will essentially allow you to "blacken the blacks" on your set.

    If this doesn't help, I would certainly consider having the set checked out, as deep blacks are one of DLP's strengths.

    If you are set on another brand I would avoid the Toshiba model. I tested the 52" model and its smaller sibling and the PQ fell far behind Samsung and Sagem.
     
  18. Mark_a

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    The static picture quality of the Tosh is as good, if not better, than the Samsung, which is noticably softer by comparison, but then it's whatever floats your personal boat. What the Tosh IS worth avoiding for, is the motion blurring that it suffers from. I reckon the best compromise at the moment is the Sagem, and I say this as a Tosh 52" owner.

    However, these things change with new models, so it pays to keep track of new sets from all manufacturers. It also pays to use your own eyes and make up your own mind. Just 'cos someone says something on here don't make it the gospel truth, so take everything you read here as nothing more than a vague starting point. And that includes anything I might say, I should add.

    Regards

    Mark
     
  19. Ruby

    Ruby
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    the_pauley,

    How do you get into the service menu?
     
  20. the_pauley

    the_pauley
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    With the set in standby mode press INFO, MENU, MUTE, POWER in rapid succession. Make sure you take a note of any settings in case you have to reset to these.
    The static PQ of the set was not something I tested for. I was more concerned with watching moving pictures! I'm funny that way...:D

    There are more issues with the Toshibas than motion blur. Contrast, brightness and colour saturation was noticeably poorer than the Sagems and Samsung models I tested. In addition as you mentioned there were the "motion blurring" issues, also that effect that has been refered to as the "oil slick" effect was particularly noticeable on skin tones. Played with the two Toshibas for ages but no amount of tweaking rectified these problems.

    If these two sets were the only DLPs you had seen you might be very impressed, but after seeing the Sagems and Samsungs in action, the Toshibas weren't even a consideration.
     
  21. Ruby

    Ruby
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    the_pauley,

    Using your instructions, I got into the service menu. However, all I could see was a list of codes (from 1 - 16) that didn't mean a thing to me. I'm not sure what to do at this stage in order to reduce the gamma level.

    Out of interest, has anybody else had to mess around in the service menu of their Samsung SP50L7HX to sort out any picture problems they may have had?
     
  22. Ruby

    Ruby
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    Just spoke with Samsung and they believe that there is a fault with my set. They have advised me to send it back to the retailer (avwow.com) for a refund or an exchange.

    I'm leaning towards an exchange for the Sagem HD-D56 unless anyone can convince me otherwise. Avwow.com are doing it for about £2400. Does anyone know of a better price?
     
  23. kmhtkmhtkmht

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    That was the best price a couiple of weeks ago and I still think the best price now.

    Join the Sagem 56 Club!
     

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