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Yay, another what should I buy thread

Discussion in 'TVs' started by Scoob, Apr 26, 2005.

  1. Scoob

    Scoob
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    Hi All,
    After a bit of advice, having spent quite a few hours now reading this forum I'm going round in circles :)
    After my trusty old Sony LCD rear projection set decided to stop working after getting slight dropped :oops: , my contents insurance have sent me a voucher for £1600 to buy a replacement :thumbsup:
    The downside is I can only spend it in Comet. I've paid a few visits to my local Comet superstore and they have some really nice kit, all badly presented of course using rubbish RF feeds and not a hint of HD sources anywhere.
    Got a DVD player hooked up to the Sagem 45" DLP and whilst the picture was nice for the most part, when there was vertical panning where a light and darker area were near each other (for example a bright blue sky with white clouds), there was a horizontal "glitch", almost as if the image wasn't being transferred across the mirrors properly. Really put me off the set.
    Ran the same demo DVD on the Toshiba 46" and it didn't have this problem, but having read several threads on the Tosh, it seems it suffers from many other problems instead.
    Popped back in today, and after half an hour waiting for an assistant to assit :boring: , I dragged one of their DVD players across the shop and plugged it into the Samsung 50" beastie. For the most part the picture was good, no noticeable rainbow etc effects, but in a few places it showed a still picture (eg a closeup of some jewellrey) and there was the same glitching as seen on the Sagem (although nowhere near as bad). I asked about availability on the Samsung and the bloke reckoned they were getting some next week and I should wait as apparently they had some sort of software update. Anyone know what this update is, or what it fixes?
    Don't know what to do really, the Sagem and Tosh were nice and only meant putting in a few quid on top of my insurance, whereas the Samsung means £900 out of my pocket as they refuse to price-match any online prices (although their website does, but of course their online shop doesn't have the Samsung). Alternatively, they had a nice Sagem 50" DLP but although HD ready, it didn't have an HDMI input so I assume it's actually an older model?
    Anyway, just looking for any advice really, is the Samsung worth the extra? Would anyone like to buy £1600 worth of Comet vouchers for £1550 so I can shop elsewhere, should I forget going to a monster DLP and get a 42" plasma?

    Rest of my setup is a Marantz DV4300 progressive scan DVD player, Pioneer VSA-E06 5.1 amp and Monitor Audio Silver Series speaker system (floorstanding fronts, beefy centre and matched rears).

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
  2. willwood

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    Try telling your insurance company you can get it cheaper elsewhere and see if they will exchange vouchers for cash. The 50" Sagem doesn't have HDMI or HDCP on the DVI port so is no good for HD. The Samsung is £1900 at Empiredirect.

    I have the 52" Tosh and am very happy with it although a lot of people see something called a panning blur, this is were skin tones break up and look like an oil painting. I've seen the effect a few times but not enough to make it a problem.
     
  3. indie24

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    i was in exactly the same situation as u. my old rear pro tv broke down with only 1 week left after 5 years warranty ran out and i was given the full purchase price back in comet vouchers of £2300. i orignally placed the order for a tosh 46 but after they said 4 weeks for delivery i went back the foloowing weekend and the sammy had a price drop to £2499. i got that. i couyld not have been happier. no problems at all so far. dvds are great. i have seen no tearing on this tv like you have mentioned and i have watched a lot of stuff on here in the 3-4 weeks i have had this set. maybe it could be a cheap dvd connected or scart lead etc. i have mine connected via component leads and sky by monster cable.
     
  4. Riva

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    The SAGEM seems to bery very "input sensitive" and will display visual glitches if not partnered properly to a suitable source. I have the hd-d45 and had alot of problems finding a good partner DVD player for it. I went through over five different players before testing a pioneer 575 and WOW what a difference. The point I am making is the SAGEM to me is an excellent tv and the boys at Currys are more than likely not showing it at its best. However the Samsung by all accounts is also a fine tv, whether or not its several hundred pounds better only you can decide.
    My opinion for what its worth!
     
  5. supermackem

    supermackem
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    The toshiba is a great tv when you use a good source. I had alot of problems before but it seems alot better now once i had hooked all my gear up tweaked it and used the tv for a while. I would test all the tvs again and ask comet if when you get it home if you see panning blurs or any other problems that come with dlp sets that you can return and exchange.
     
  6. Scoob

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    Thanks folks, it seems the best course of action is to take my own DVD player and leads together with a couple of DVD films (any recommendations for a good DVD to really give the DLP sets something to think about?) and spend an afternoon annoying the shop by testing it on their TVs :)
     
  7. Razor

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    Take a collection of you favorite films. Ones you are used to so you can compare to your previous system. Also take some dvd's which arent the best quality so you see the display at its worst, after all not everything you watch is going to be top demo quality.

    My fav discs are i-robot, starwars, new james bond disc, underworld, matrix (is ok but remember its shot with a green tint to it), Lord of the rings, T3. If you have any old dvd's (ie 4-5 years old) take a few of them as the quality of dvd's has improved allot since then. Oh and if you have a laptop try out a HD demos via DVI connection. You can download them form this site as a means to start you off on the HD trial.

    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/contentshowcase.aspx

    Good luck and happy shopping :clap:
     
  8. Scoob

    Scoob
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    Well, after much ho-ing and hum-ing, bought a Sammy 50" from Comets online shop today. Paid over the odds compared to some of the other internet sites around but no choice really. In real world terms it's cost me a mere £650 so if I think of it that way then it's a bargain :thumbsup:
    Can't wait until next week :D
     
  9. Scoob

    Scoob
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    Arrived yesterday (that box is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge!!!), took me about an hour and a half to get it unpacked and everything plugged in.
    Spent quite a bit of time watching it last night. For the most part I was pretty impressed. However, watching a film on Sky I got massive rainbows :( - basically any scene where it was lots of dark with a few white areas, moving my eyes slightly around the picture gave a dazzling effect (and keeping them still is pretty hard). Was OK watching "normal" programmes although still noticeable in places. I think I need to have a play with some of the settings to see if I can reduce the effect somewhat (I think it's set a little too bright at the moment so fingers crossed it will help a bit).
    I have a question about progressive scan via the component input, do I need to configure anything on the TV to accept it? My DVD player is set to output it but I was getting a "bendy-head" problem where the top inch or so of the screen is distorted. Seemed to be better if I switched the PS off but I need to do some more testing with PS on/off and connecting via SCART. I'm pretty sure it's not a cable problem as I am using top quality RCA and cables (Belden 7710A), and I hope it's not a source problem as my DVD player is pretty good too (Marantz DV4300).
    Any thoughts on the above? :)
     
  10. Scoob

    Scoob
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    OK, done a bit more investigation this evening.
    If I connect the DVD player via RGB Scart, it's fine (well, as fine as Scart can be) ie there is no distortion.
    If I connect the DVD player via component (either progressive scan or interlaced) there is a flickering at the top of the screen.
    Any ideas?
    Re the rainbows, I've seen a few threads where people reckon they get used to them and don't see them any more, I hope that's true.
     
  11. destix

    destix
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    its true
    content yourself and stop looking for them , i bet in a week you only see them when you try :thumbsup:
     
  12. Scoob

    Scoob
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    Unfortunately they do exist, and for some people they ruin an otherwise excellent viewing experience.
    Anyone got any ideas on the distortion via component? It's definately not the cables as I've tried another set, but I can't test either the source or the TV input as I don't have another device that outputs component.
     
  13. Scoob

    Scoob
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    Well, I'm going to be returning the Sammy tomorrow :(

    I've tried lots of different settings and as soon as I think I've got the rainbows down to a liveable amount, I watch something else and there they are in all their glory (tried watching Schindlers List today, completely unwatchable, for a black and white film it was in technicolour for me).

    It's a real shame but I guess my eyes/brain are just too sensitive for single chip DLP technology so I'm turning to the dark side (dropping down to a puny 42" plasma), at least until 3chip DLPs come down to a sensible price.

    Samsung, sorry but it's a firm :thumbsdow from me
     
  14. Scoob

    Scoob
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    Actually, a quick question, is it possible that this particular TV is faulty hence my bad rainbow problems? If possible I really want to keep the Sammy as it's a lovely bit of kit.
    Is it a 6 or 7 segment colour wheel?
     
  15. Br41ns

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    :hiya:

    Scoob, the sammy has a 7 segment colour wheel. As for is it poss the set is faulty, well anything is poss but you might just be sensitive. What settings are you using.
    I can see rainbows if i force myself but playing with the settings minimised it. Ive got my contrast at 46, brightness 60, sharpness 50, colour 35. DNie is on, DNR is off. In my color settings ive got pink and blue at 40 and green at 30, worth a try before you bin it for a plasma.
     
  16. Scoob

    Scoob
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    I tried loads of settings, the only way I could significantly reduce the rainbow effect was to drop the contrast or brightness right down to 10 or 15 which meant that the rest of the picture was poor, not a compromise I was willing to make. Will give your settings a go this evening, just to make sure.
    I've ordered a Tosh 46" DLP to replace it (if the above cures the problem I'll just cancel that order), will see how I get on with that but as you say, I think I'm just very sensitive to the rainbow effect (I often see screen flicker on PC monitors where the user sees nothing so I guess I must have a highly developed brain and optic nerve ;) ). If the Tosh doesn't work out then I'll have to settle for a plasma.
     
  17. soni

    soni
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    You'll probably find the Tosh Ok for rainbows, as i owned one for over 4 months, and never noticed a single rainbow, or even a flicker of a rainbow, in fact i was beginning to feel left out due to not knowing what all the fuss was about with rainbows - as i didn't even know what they looked like!!! I tried everything with the Tosh, constant head shaking, eye shaking, you name it i tried it. Infortunatly i had to return the Tosh due to panning blur, and purchased the Sammpy SP50L7. I'm really impressed with the Sammy, i think its a great TV, however i am able to force rainbows on this set whereas i wasn't able to on the Tosh. Although - its only ever a flicker for a split second when i do see them, and only under extreme circumstances. It sought of makes you think - was that one or not? Whereas your problem seemed quite bad!
     
  18. Scoob

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    I've read a few bits on some of the US forums where they reckon the Tosh is much better at reducing rainbows (you'd think the 7 segment wheel in the Sammy would be better). I'll see how it goes and what sort of problem the panning blur is. I'm only ever linking it to reasonable quality sources, DVD via progressive component, Sky via RGB Scart and PS2 so hopefully it won't be so much of a problem.
    I think the main issue now is I'll be looking for problems whereas if the Sammy hadn't blinded me with the rainbows, the picture would have been otherwise perfect to me.
     
  19. KableMan

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    Hi Scoob - I too can see rainbows but the amount I see has reduced quite significantly over the past few weeks that i've owned the SP50. It is a little alarming at first as they are quite frequent. Oddly enough my first impressions of the Samsung was that I saw less rainbows on it than I did on the Toshiba 46WM48!! Totally opposite to soni :confused: but to be honest if you see them you will always be able to see them and you need to either conciously stop looking for them and try to relax a bit to get over the initial hump or you should forget about DLP.

    I swear by Cinema mode on the Samsung as I feel it produces the best overall colour reproduction and most natural skin tones. It's a bit of a shock initially when switching from Standard or Dynamic but it really is much better. I then fine tuned it using the THX calibration to get these settings:

    HDMI
    Contrast 75
    Brightness 57
    Sharpness 57
    Colour 50

    Telewest, VCR and analogue TV
    Contrast 85
    Brightness 57
    Sharpness 57 (sometimes I hike this to 65 but it doesn't make too much difference)
    Colour 50

    I found that lowering the contrast and raising the brightness improved detail in blacks. Now when I switch back to Standard it is god awful! I use Standard when playing on the XBOX as there are no natural tones needed.

    Finally try watching TV or movies you've never seen before for a while as the content will distract you from looking for rainbows and help train your eyes - this worked for me.

    Cheers
    KableMan

    PS. For me the panning blur was a much bigger problem as it really ruined the PQ and it was visible to everyone and not just for a split second like rainbows are so they were much harder to ignore (impossible for me). Also I've hardly seen a single rainbow when watching HD material.
     
  20. Razor

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    This was the same with my RD65. :D
     
  21. Scoob

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    Well I'm not expecting much from the Tosh to be honest. I think it's just a fundemental problem with single chip DLP technology that they will never be able to solve. I can wait as I'm planning on moving abroad in the next few years anyway and I suspect I'll be able to pick up a 75" 3-chip DLP system for pennies :)
     
  22. Scoob

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    A little update......
    Managed to persuade Comet that I should evaluate the Sammy for a month instead of their 7 day return policy and they agreed :D
    So, I'll see how I get on with it and hopefully it/me will settle down a bit.
    Quick question ref giving it a feed from a PC, do I just set the desktop to be 1280x720, 60Hz and plug it in?
     
  23. Scoob

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    OK, little update for those that be bothered to read it ;)
    Cancelled the order for the Tosh and decided to keep the Sammy.
    I still see rainbows pretty much all the time (less than originally? Not sure, I guess a bit less but maybe I have just got used to them and ignore them more?), but if I concentrate on not moving my eyes round the screen I can minimise the problem.

    However, this slight comprimise has been more than offset thanks to the superb picture quality from most sources. Sky going through Scart looks OK (if only they'd give their channels a touch more bandwidth, watching the BBC documentary on bears the other week, absolutely stunning for 99.9% and then they have some moving water and it's MPEG-blocktastic). DVD via component is so good it really shows up poor quality mastering but bung in a decent film and wow. I still have the problem with some DVD's having bendy head (for example Star Wars) but I can't seem to figure out any pattern to it (anyone got any ideas on this :lease: ).
    I also downloaded a few HD clips onto my laptop and played them back via VGA lead (not the best), hubba hubba, gimme HD today!!!

    And to top it off, the set looks fantastic even when it's switched off.
    I guess overall, despite the rainbows, it's a definate :thumbsup: for the Sammy :)
     
  24. Razor

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    Scoob :hiya:


    Chicken n' chips happy dayz.... :thumbsup: Glad your getting a bit more settled with your display.


    HD is the way forward :clap: :clap: :clap:
     
  25. Br41ns

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    Scoob :hiya:

    Glad you decided on keeping the sammy, Definately the best looking set out there IMO. :smashin: I havent had the bendy head prob on dvds but i use hdmi. Do you get the prob from dvd on scart?
     

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