1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Yamaha set-up. Help please.

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Techno Freak, Sep 28, 2003.

Tags:
  1. Techno Freak

    Techno Freak
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    North-East
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hello,

    I have just set-up a new home cinema using a Yamaha DVD540 player and Yamaha 640se amp.

    I am impressed with DD and DTS playback, although dialogue can seem a little harsh / tinny - DTS is better than DD in that respect.

    I am concerned about music playback though.

    If I play a music CD on the DVD deck via optical link with the amp set to stereo - the quality is appalling. People sing with a lisp from the end of a hallway and bass is very distorted.

    It is better through my cheapo ancient cd player and crappy phono leads, although it does still sound very basy and speach sounds quite tinny.

    Any ideas on what may be the problem?

    Thanks.
     
  2. wookie

    wookie
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Try running a good pair of analogue interconnects into the Yams ext inputs for the front channels.

    This bypasses and A-D D-A conversions.
    The tone controlls will still b in circuit though.

    Did this with my old dspax620 and it did improve things (slightly).
     
  3. wookie

    wookie
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    :zonked:

    This bypasses ANY A-D &/or D-A conversions.
    The amp behaves similarly to an integrated.


    :lesson: & leave that poxy impedance switch on 8 ohms!
     
  4. rockyglw

    rockyglw
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2002
    Messages:
    99
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +4
    I bought the same amp and found the same problem. The Yamaha seems to be a great AV amp, but is no way an audio amp. Luckily for me Sevenoaks HiFi were sympathetic and changed the amp for a Marantz SR4400. This has completely solved the harsh sibilance problems that I had with the Yamaha and does not seem to be lacking in the Home Cinema mode. I even tried my Arcam CD66 audio CD player with the Yamaha using Qunex interconnects and still had the harshness problems.
     
  5. Techno Freak

    Techno Freak
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    North-East
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks for the advice, I will try that tommorrow.

    I have just updated my website if anyone is interested in seeing some pics of my new install.

    www.techno-freak.com

    Thanks.

    Tony.
     
  6. Techno Freak

    Techno Freak
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    North-East
    Ratings:
    +0
    Problem solved (ish)

    I have concluded that DVD players are pants at music, especially the Yamaha 540.

    I know people say that CD's do not play as well on DVD players but I did'nt think they would be that poor.

    CD's through the Yam DVD player sound distorted, as though they were being fed to the amp at too greater power.

    I tested my old Samsund DVD709 into the Yam 640 and it was a little better, not as distorted but left and right channels kept sort of switching and the music sounded 'computerised'.

    I have now hooked up my old Eclipse cd player it it is miles better. Although not as good as through a dedicated stereo amp, the Yam 640 does more than a good enough job on music from the dedicated cd player.

    I am now happy with the music side of things but just need to get the centre channel properly sorted.

    The centre speaker sounds a little echoey and harsh, especially in DD. DTS fairs a little better. It is sometimes hard to hear what people are saying even thought the volume is loud. Music scenes, effects and explosions etc sound amazing and really fill the room, then when the dialogue returns you feel a little let down as it does not match the rest of the soundstage.

    Any ideas?

    Set-up is....

    Front mains Eltax Galaxy set as Large with bass to main and sub
    Sub - Eltax 10
    Centre - Eltax millenium set to large
    Rears - Eltax millenium set to small

    SP distances all set correct from my seating position

    Centre channel equaliser all to middle slider

    Dynamic mode to normal

    No DSP modes running.


    Thanks for the previous advice.
     
  7. wookie

    wookie
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Try running your centre as "small"!

    Should help....
     
  8. NinjaKi11a

    NinjaKi11a
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Messages:
    314
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    Just wamted to check that you've no complaints about the 640SE as an AV amp. I plan to get one of these to upgrade my existing hi-fi to av: CDs and the front L&R channels will run through my hi-fi amp. Your compaints about the poor quality centre channel are a concern.

    BTW from what I've read, optical seems to be the last choice of connection between DVD and av amp. Is there a vast difference between c axial digital and analogue?

    Cheers,

    Pete
     
  9. kwangomango

    kwangomango
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    856
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +38
    What if your speakers dictate that you should use the other setting?

    Edit: I've just read that bit from audioholics. Is it defo true that the switch should be left at 8 ohms? I am currently using 6 ohm speakers.
     
  10. Mr Cat

    Mr Cat
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2003
    Messages:
    2,190
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Weardale
    Ratings:
    +57
    nice setup - what projector are you using..? and the price...?
    just that I'm thinking of buying one... 8o)
     
  11. Techno Freak

    Techno Freak
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    North-East
    Ratings:
    +0
    What does that do exactly? I have read somwehere in the posts that people run thier floorstanders as small also.

    Would in not mean that even less signal is sent to the centre?
     
  12. Techno Freak

    Techno Freak
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    North-East
    Ratings:
    +0

    No complaints for the movie moments, apart from what I mentioned about the centre channel. Although I suspect this may be due to bad DVD encoding on certain titles and a crappy cheapo Eltax speaker.

    I am very impressed with its power and overall build and sound quality. It sounds pretty good with CD's as long as played through a CD player and definatly not through a DVD player.

    I tried hooking up with co-ax but the Yamaha amp's co-as in seems to be only stereo for CD input. I hooked up the DVD through it but it would not switch to DD or DTS modes. Only Pr-Logic. Maybe someone else here knows how to set the amp to accept multi-channel signals throught the co-ax?

    I have mine hooked up with the optical and think it's pretty great.

    Considering that my 5 main speakers cost less than £100 ( due to sales and cock-ups in pricing ) I am very impressed. I dare say once I start buying quality speakers I will be even more impressed - although I find it hard to comprehend just how much better it can be as it is already very good.
     
  13. Techno Freak

    Techno Freak
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    North-East
    Ratings:
    +0

    I am using a Panasonic AE3000 which I am very impressed with. Especially as it is connected with about 15 meters of cobbled together composite video cable whcih is made from a cambridge audio sub woofer cable taped to a length of bog standard sky dish co-ax.

    Who needs a hundred quids worth of cabling?

    Actually, I fully intended to make some component leads ( which now have done ) but I did not make them in time to install before my cieling was built. So, the nice hidden cabling is the crap stuff and when I have finished the component leads they will have to be in full view.

    Anyway, as I said - very impressed, blown away infact, with the picture quality.

    It is projected onto a 7 foot owl 16/9 electric screen which is also supberb. The borders are curled slightly but this does not encroach on the viewing area or detract from the picture. The screen gives the picture much more brightness and life.

    I got a deal from AV Sales .com seeing as I bought the screen and PJ at the same time he gave me them for £1550 PJ and £710 or therabouts for the screen.

    If you are cieling mounting grab an LMP mount from LMP.com - £100 ish for twin axis adjustable. Supberb build quality and looks the business.

    You can get the AE100 for around £700 on the net. I demoed one and was initially going to get one but they were £1500 at the time and by the time I had built the extension the AE300 was the same price.

    I must say, the 300 I have set up beats the pants off the 100 in the demo room - BUT they were projecting a lot bigger than I am so it's possible it could be better than I saw it. I would say if 1500 is your budget get the 300, if you want a bargain and dont mind sacrficing a little quality get a cheap 100. You always have the excuse of bieng able to upgrade sooner if you dont spend as much:smashin:
     
  14. avanzato

    avanzato
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,874
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Norfolk
    Ratings:
    +60
    I've the Yamaha AX630SE and it not a stunner with music but it doesn't sound as bad as yours seems to. Have they gone backwards with the 640 or is it your speakers. Have you tried any other speakers?

    The coax digi input can be assigned to the DVD in the setup menus. I did that and it auto switches formats no problem.
     
  15. Reiner

    Reiner
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +13
    You must seperate digital connections (coaxial or optical) and analog(ue) connections.
    There is IMHO not much difference between coaxial and optical though perhaps coaxial offers better mechanical qualities (less prone to damage) while optical is said to be more useful for longer distances.
    Some claim optical suffers from the needed conversion (electrical to light and back) though this is perhaps as debatable as DD vs. DTS. :devil:

    Analog(ue) connections are mainly used for DVD-A and SACD or when the DVD player can perform a decoding function the AV amp/rec doesn't have. Some prefer to connect their CDP for stereo this way. As most of the time this depends on your preference and your equipment.
    Digital connections are claimed to provide a better performance since the DACs (Digital-to-Analog Converters) in the AV amp/rec are usually better than those in DVD players. As well it saves you on cabling (one optical or coaxial vs. 6x RCA/phono).


    The manufacturer recommends the setting according to your speakers as to protect the amp from getting overloaded.
    In the 4 Ohm position the power output will be halved (that's all the switch will do), but you will hardly note that since it only reflects when you need all the power the amp can provide (i.e. peak), not during normal use since then only a few Watt are required.
    Some people claim there is a difference in sound quality when using the 4 Ohm position, but IMHO that's not true - at least it's not proven beyond reasonable doubt.


    Bass will be cut from all speakers set to small (e.g. center or rears) and routed to the subwoofer output (Subwoofer = YES) or to the main/front speakers (Subwoofer = NO).
    The exact cut-off frequency is either fixed or can be set (in steps) in the menu, sometimes for each channel pair, sometimes for each channel individually. That purely depends on make and model.
    People choose to set their floorstanders to SMALL if they think they don't deliver adequate bass; most floorstanders can't reach as low as a subwoofer anyhow.
    Especially for smallish sub/sats system the SMALL setting is recommended for all channels.

    Setting speakers to SMALL will also reduce the load to the amp, which should result in better sound quality.

    Yes, but it doesn't mean it will be lost. If the Subwoofer is declared as "YES" in the setup the signal will be routed to there.
     
  16. NinjaKi11a

    NinjaKi11a
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Messages:
    314
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks for the help Reiner. That's something I've been wondering for a while and couldn't seem to find an answer too. So basically if I'm connecting a 565 to a budget av amp (Yam/Pioneer - I've yet to decide) with preouts to my stereo amp, and I'm not over-concerned with DVD-A or SACD, then it's prolly best to go coaxial? Did I see elsewhere that coaxial is totally incompatible with SACD?
     
  17. Reiner

    Reiner
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +13
    Yes, either coaxial or optical. (Not all DVD players have both outputs)

    Correct, the current digital outputs (coaxial or optical) are incompatible with the high bandwith of SACD and DVD-A.
    Hence a lot of manufactures offer work-around solutions like Fire-Wire (IEEE1394) or proprietery solutions (3x coax - whoever came up with that idea!?).
    This would usually limit you to one manufacturer, i.e. you have to buy DVD player and AV amp from them.
     

Share This Page

Loading...