Yamaha RX-V675 Zone 2?

[mbitr]

Hello - I'm thinking of buying the RX-V675. Can anyone tell me if when using the zone 2, the audio from the main room and zone 2 can be the same? I looked in the owners manual, it says on the v775 there's a feature called "Party mode" that allows main/2 to play the same source. I would hope you can play the same signal, or choose to separate them?

Thanks in advance

 

[PSM1]

The party mode feature allows you to play a digital source in zone 2 but it has to be the same as that playing in the main zone. Without party mode or if you want to listen to 2 separate sources then you are limited to analogue inputs only for zone 2 (so no HDMI, optical or coaxial inputs).

 

[mbitr]

so the Party mode is available on the 675? The owners manual makes it sound like its only on the 775,


Thanks

 

[dante01]

Irespective of whether party mode is available to you or not, you can play the same source simultaneously in both zones. The source would obviously need to be of a type that can be played in the second zone though so not HDMI or S/PDIF inputs. Party mode would also fascilitate audio via HDMI and S/PDIF sources in both zones simultaneously.

 

[mbitr]

On the 675 specifically, I have my Apple TV connected via HDMI. Since its not analog, I wouldn't be able to listen to it on the main and zone2 simultaneously?

 

[dante01]

You can via Party Mode, but you cannot via the normal use of the second zone.

Yes, only the RXV775 and not the RXV675 has Party Mode.

If using the RXV675 then you cannot play HDMI and or S/PDIF sources via the second zone simultaneously or otherwise, but you can play other sources such as analogue inputs or audio accessed via the receiver's networking capabilities in both zones simultaneously.

 

[mbitr]

Great - thanks for the info. Looks like I need to keep shopping!

 

[explicitlyrics]

How bizarre, I have the 675 and I was just (I mean this morning!) trying to work out how to do this as I was annoyed by this missing feature. While searching I had an idea which is connecting the AV out from the AVR into the Audio In of the AVR which I'll test this evening but should work fine as Zone 2 can play audio in source. Ok, so you lose an analogue input for the AVR and you have to faff a bit more when turning it on but otherwise it works perfectly and could be done automatically with a programmable remote.
Hope that helps!

 

[dante01]

What issue are you hoping to resolve with such a configuration? You'll still be limited to analogue sources because only analogue sources will be output via analogue outputs (tape loop).

 

[explicitlyrics]

Ideally having some audio in Zone 2 (e.g. kitchen/patio) so that you can hear the audio from what is on the TV while you are away from the screen. I didnt realise Audio out only outputted analogue sources, thats annoying! So you would need to add something like this to strip audio off the HDMI signal... Neet® - HDMI Audio Converter / Extractor - HD Digital: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

 

[dante01]

Yep, if you want the audio from digital sources in another zone then you'd need to look elsewhere, either at another AV receiver or external signal splitters and another amp for the other room.

 

[Fredde87]

Ideally having some audio in Zone 2 (e.g. kitchen/patio) so that you can hear the audio from what is on the TV while you are away from the screen. I didnt realise Audio out only outputted analogue sources, thats annoying! So you would need to add something like this to strip audio off the HDMI signal... Neet® - HDMI Audio Converter / Extractor - HD Digital: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

Hey, I realise this is a really old thread but I was actually just thinking about doing the same setup as you. Did this work for you? My main concern is what would happen if you accidentally set the Main Zone to the same input where the extracted audio comes from? This would create a loop. Is it harmful for the AMP?

 

[dante01]

Hey, I realise this is a really old thread but I was actually just thinking about doing the same setup as you. Did this work for you? My main concern is what would happen if you accidentally set the Main Zone to the same input where the extracted audio comes from? This would create a loop. Is it harmful for the AMP?

It doesn't cause a loop and you simply get the same audio from the same source in both the main room and the second audio zone. This is of cause as long as the source is analogue or you'd only get audio in the second room if the source for that zone is analogue. Note that you can also access audio via the receiver's networking capabilities in the second audio zone.

 

[explicitlyrics]

I didn't manage to get the analogue audio out of the amp to go straight into zone 2 input, as it seemed to not work for some sources. Also that would get messy as you say if you choose the right combination of sources.

However, just using the HDMI converter works well for me, and I actually used a splitter - this one - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GH4MEYC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ETy-AbG8NDQ9K - since this way I can plug the HDMI input in like normal and don't get any lag or confusion between sources

 

[Fredde87]

It doesn't cause a loop and you simply get the same audio from the same source in both the main room and the second audio zone. This is of cause as long as the source is analogue or you'd only get audio in the second room if the source for that zone is analogue. Note that you can also access audio via the receiver's networking capabilities in the second audio zone.

Sorry Dante, I think you might have misunderstood what I was asking. I understand it will work during normal operations if Zone 2 is set to the analog input.

But lets says I have my audio extractors output connected to Analog Input 1. If I set the Main Zone by accident to Analog Input 1. Then the signal would travel as follows,

AMP's HDMI Output -> HDMI cable -> Audio Extractor -> RCA cable -> AMP's Analog Input 1 -> AMP's HDMI Output -> HDMI cable -> Audio Extractor -> RCA cable -> AMP's Analog Input 1 -> AMP's HDMI Output -> HDMI cable -> Audio Extractor -> RCA cable -> AMP's Analog Input 1 -> etc etc...

It would then create a loop. My question is if there is a potential for damaging the amp if I was to accidentally select this input on the Main Zone?

I didn't manage to get the analogue audio out of the amp to go straight into zone 2 input, as it seemed to not work for some sources. Also that would get messy as you say if you choose the right combination of sources.

However, just using the HDMI converter works well for me, and I actually used a splitter - this one - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GH4MEYC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ETy-AbG8NDQ9K - since this way I can plug the HDMI input in like normal and don't get any lag or confusion between sources

Thanks explicitlyrics, thats the exact audio extractor I am looking at purchasing. I have no doubt it will work, my question is more what would happen if you accidentally selected it as the source on the main zone?

 

[explicitlyrics]

Im not sure it would work on the Amp's output, since the amp will strip the audio out of the input signal (or do something with the same effect by disabling it in the signal so your TV does not play it aswell), hence I have mine connected between a Chromecast and the amp, which then goes on to TV/Projector as needed.

 

[Fredde87]

Im not sure it would work on the Amp's output, since the amp will strip the audio out of the input signal (or do something with the same effect by disabling it in the signal so your TV does not play it aswell), hence I have mine connected between a Chromecast and the amp, which then goes on to TV/Projector as needed.

I dont think it does strip the audio. My Sony TV can toggle between Audio System and TV Speakers. In fact as you replied I tried setting my TV to TV Speakers and I could get both audio from my YouView box (connected via HDMI) to output from the TV speakers and Spotify (inbuilt network on the Yamaha AMP). So I believe from my testing that the HDMI signal always includes the audio stream as well.

Edit: One interesting thought that I just realised. When I swap to the TV speakers, then my AMP stops outputting sound via it's inbuilt speakers. So I wonder if maybe its just HDMI-CEC that is telling the AMP to either output audio via the speakers or via the TV... So maybe my plan won't work then!

Might have to look at a new AMP with a Party mode then!

Edit2: Tried switching of HDMI-CEC on my TV and I lost audio on the TV and audio is always from the AMP now. So you are right, it doesnt output audio to both at the same time. I'll have to buy a AMP with Party Mode then...

Thanks for saving me some money! Was just about to order audio extractors and various cables etc that I won't need!

Edit3: No sorry, ignore that! I just saw if I switch of HDMI-CEC on the AMP, then I can choose if I want audio to be outputted to HDMI, AMP or both. So I can get it to output to both at the same time!

So that puts me back to my original question, would it damage the amp if the audio is looped back and selected in the main zone?
Or can I somehow block so the analog input is only selectable in Zone 2 and not Zone 1?

 

[dante01]

Sorry Dante, I think you might have misunderstood what I was asking. I understand it will work during normal operations if Zone 2 is set to the analog input.

But lets says I have my audio extractors output connected to Analog Input 1. If I set the Main Zone by accident to Analog Input 1. Then the signal would travel as follows,

AMP's HDMI Output -> HDMI cable -> Audio Extractor -> RCA cable -> AMP's Analog Input 1 -> AMP's HDMI Output -> HDMI cable -> Audio Extractor -> RCA cable -> AMP's Analog Input 1 -> AMP's HDMI Output -> HDMI cable -> Audio Extractor -> RCA cable -> AMP's Analog Input 1 -> etc etc...

It would then create a loop. My question is if there is a potential for damaging the amp if I was to accidentally select this input on the Main Zone?

The AV receiver has no digital output to which the extractor could be used in conjunction with and cannot passthrough HDMI audio while simultaneously processing and amplifying it. The HDMI outut is effectively for video only while using the receiver for audio processing. The analogue output can only output analogue sources or audio accessed via the receiver's networking capabilities so how would using them resolve the issue? The analogue output from the extractor would be a different source to the HDMI signal being passed through it.

If the audio extractor is located between the source and the AVR then it isn't possible to create an audio loop.

 

[Fredde87]

The AV receiver has no digital output to which the extractor could be used in conjunction with and cannot passthrough HDMI audio while simultaneously processing and amplifying it. The HDMI outut is effectively for video only while using the receiver for audio processing. The analogue output can only output analogue sources or audio accessed via the receiver's networking capabilities so how would using them resolve the issue? The analogue output from the extractor would be a different source to the HDMI signal being passed through it.

If the audio extractor is located between the source and the AVR then it isn't possible to create and audio loop.

Sorry, I shouldn't have edited my previous post. I should have posted a new reply.

I have managed to get the AMP to output audio via both the amplifier and the HDMI. You have to switch of HDMI-CEC and then you can go in to the Audio Output menu and you can set both HDMI and AMP to On at the same time

 

[dante01]

I dont think it does strip the audio. My Sony TV can toggle between Audio System and TV Speakers. In fact as you replied I tried setting my TV to TV Speakers and I could get both audio from my YouView box (connected via HDMI) to output from the TV speakers and Spotify (inbuilt network on the Yamaha AMP). So I believe from my testing that the HDMI signal always includes the audio stream as well.

Edit: One interesting thought that I just realised. When I swap to the TV speakers, then my AMP stops outputting sound via it's inbuilt speakers. So I wonder if maybe its just HDMI-CEC that is telling the AMP to either output audio via the speakers or via the TV... So maybe my plan won't work then!

Might have to look at a new AMP with a Party mode then!

Edit2: Tried switching of HDMI-CEC on my TV and I lost audio on the TV and audio is always from the AMP now. So you are right, it doesnt output audio to both at the same time. I'll have to buy a AMP with Party Mode then...

Thanks for saving me some money! Was just about to order audio extractors and various cables etc that I won't need!

Edit3: No sorry, ignore that! I just saw if I switch of HDMI-CEC on the AMP, then I can choose if I want audio to be outputted to HDMI, AMP or both. So I can get it to output to both at the same time!

So that puts me back to my original question, would it damage the amp if the audio is looped back and selected in the main zone?
Or can I somehow block so the analog input is only selectable in Zone 2 and not Zone 1?

Sony allow their receivers to passthrough audio while simultaneously processing it. Other manufacturers such as Yamaha do not.

 

[dante01]

Sorry, I shouldn't have edited my previous post. I should have posted a new reply.

I have managed to get the AMP to output audio via both the amplifier and the HDMI. You have to switch of HDMI-CEC and then you can go in to the Audio Output menu and you can set both HDMI and AMP to On at the same time

This wouldn't cause a loop because the analogue audio from the extractor is neither amplified or processed by the AV receiver and would simply be a seperate analogue source. The receiver doesn't convert analogue audio sources to HDMI so cannot output an analogue audio source via its HDMI output. Its analogue to HDMI conversion abilities only relate to video and not audio.

Your receiver will be limited to only being able to access audio formats that your TV has the ability to process if passing an HDMI audio signal through the receiver and out to your TV. This is especially the case if using a Blu-ray or UHD player as the HDMI source. The source will be limited by the least able device in the HDMI audio chain. Place the audio extractor between the source and the receiver in order to avoid this. The HDMI signal should passthrough the extractor without issue and the source will see the AVR as being the guide on what audio can be handled. Use the extractor's analogue audio output to connect it to the receiver's analogue audio inputs. You now have 2 independant sources both with the same audio.

 

[Fredde87]

Sony allow their receivers to passthrough audio while simultaneously processing it. Other manufacturers such as Yamaha do not.

Here is a video of my Yamaha AMP. You can see both AMP and HDMI Out is set to On. At first both TV and AMP are muted. I first unmute the AMP and you can hear its volume. I then mute it again and you can hear me pick up the Sony TV remote. I unmute the TV and you can hear its volume.
I then pick up the AMPs remote again and unmute it, you can now hear a echo as both the AMP and TV are outputting at the same time.

The problem is that I use all 5 HDMI inputs on the AMP. So I can't install 5 audio extractors for each input as it would be in practical and I dont have 5 spare analogue inputs either.

What kind of audio format can my TV not process? You mean since my TV only has stereo speakers I would loose any surround processing?

 

[Fredde87]

Also I just tried the above setup with a analogue audio source (aux cord) and it does output to my TV speakers via HDMI. So analogue to digital seems to work fine.

 

[dante01]

Read what I said about sources now using your TV as guidance as to what audio they can output. AS long as you have your receiver configured to passthrough audio via HDMI then certain sources will not output audio formats that your TV cannot handle. A Blu-ray player for example will be limited to SD formats and 2 channel PCM.

PLacing the extractor between the source and the receiver negates this.

 

[Fredde87]

Read what I said about sources now using your TV as guidance as to what audio they can output. AS long as you have your receiver configured to passthrough audio via HDMI then certain sources will not output audio formats that your TV cannot handle. A Blu-ray player for example will be limited to SD formats and 2 channel PCM.

PLacing the extractor between the source and the receiver negates this.

Thanks, I saw that but its hard for me to verify that because my TV appears to support everything my AMP does (DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD etc). But I guess thats good news then as I shouldn't have any problems then.
I just downloaded some DTS-HD MA and TrueHD test files from Dolby/DTS and they all played fine in surround with both both TV and AMP Audio Output's enabled (for the DTS testing I changed the V-AUX input decode mode to DTS and set VLC to HDMI Encoded so that the raw stream is passed to the AMP).

So I think in my setup there shouldn't be any problems unless I change the AMP in the future to a Atmos AMP and dont upgrade the TV at the same time.

All this though leads me back to what would happen if I accidentally created a loop by using the audio extractor connected to the HDMI output. One option I was thinking about was using the 12V trigger to trigger a relay to shut off power to the audio extractor if Main Zone is set to the same Input that the extractor is connected to. But seems maybe a bit excessive...