Yamaha rx-v663, running no sub. Auto calibration correctly sets speakers to large but also sets LFE to fronts. More info in post....confused.

JackKnob

Novice Member
Running 4 towers and very large center. Calibration sets the speaker size correctly, all speakers large. What confuses me is there is no option for no sub and it sets LFE to "fronts" with a crossover at 60hz. If all speakers are set to large what is better crossed over? All speakers are set at large therefore should be receiving the full frequency signal.

I don't want to debate setting my speakers to small or large I would just like to know why the receiver is doing this and what is happening.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
In the absence of a sub, an AV receiver will direct the LFE channel to the front left and right speakers if and when an LFE channel is present within the source audio. In instances where there is no sub then the front speaker can only ever be designated as being LARGE. Only speakers designated SMALL can have a crossover filter assigned to them. The sub has no crossover even if present. You can however designate the centre and or the surrounds as being SMALL and configure crossovers in associayion with them so that the frequencies at anf below their assigned crossover settings are sent to the front left and right speakers.This can be useful in setups devoid of an active sub where the front left and right speakers are larger than the centre and surround speakers and more capable of handling lower end frequencies.

What I think you have mistaken as being crossovers for the front left and right are more than likely crossovers associated wiith the cenre and or surround speakers? As said, the front left and right cannot be anything but LARGE in a setup devoid of an active sub and only speakers set as being SMALL can have a crossover filter assigned to them.

If your AVR was correctly configured prior to the calibration and if there's no sub in your setup then the front left and right speakers cannot be anything but LARGE and there's no crossover filter being applied to the audio they are portraying.
 
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Aggromemnon

Standard Member
I can't imagine why anyone would tell you to set speakers small when you have no subwoofer. Most receivers will assume you have no sub if it didn't detect one in the calibration. You didn't say what your receiver or speakers are, so speaking generally. Since it detects no sub, LFE signal HAS to go somewhere, so it will by default send it to the fronts.

Calibration is not about your speaker's capabilities, but how they perform in your room. Your speakers may be fully capable of going down to 20hz, for instance, but if they can't reproduce those frequencies in that room, those frequencies will be omitted. Attempting to drive your speakers to reproduce frequencies it struggles with will cause distortion and reduce quality across the board.
 

JackKnob

Novice Member
I can't imagine why anyone would tell you to set speakers small when you have no subwoofer. Most receivers will assume you have no sub if it didn't detect one in the calibration. You didn't say what your receiver or speakers are, so speaking generally. Since it detects no sub, LFE signal HAS to go somewhere, so it will by default send it to the fronts.

Calibration is not about your speaker's capabilities, but how they perform in your room. Your speakers may be fully capable of going down to 20hz, for instance, but if they can't reproduce those frequencies in that room, those frequencies will be omitted. Attempting to drive your speakers to reproduce frequencies it struggles with will cause distortion and reduce quality across the board.
I asked this same question at AVS and every response was how I should not have my center or surrounds to large or something to such effect. No actual answer to the question!
 

JackKnob

Novice Member
I can't imagine why anyone would tell you to set speakers small when you have no subwoofer. Most receivers will assume you have no sub if it didn't detect one in the calibration. You didn't say what your receiver or speakers are, so speaking generally. Since it detects no sub, LFE signal HAS to go somewhere, so it will by default send it to the fronts.

Calibration is not about your speaker's capabilities, but how they perform in your room. Your speakers may be fully capable of going down to 20hz, for instance, but if they can't reproduce those frequencies in that room, those frequencies will be omitted. Attempting to drive your speakers to reproduce frequencies it struggles with will cause distortion and reduce quality across the board.
I ran the calibration again and this time it set the center to small and crossover at 100hz.

Last time all 5 speakers were set to large yet for some reason it still set LEF to fronts and set a 60hz crossover. I believe when it says LFE front it is the same as a "no sub" setting. Just confused about it setting a 60HZ crossover with all speakers set to large. Possibly the value is just displayed but its not actually doing anything.
 

Aggromemnon

Standard Member
I have a Yamaha 685. Is the the box that displays the crossover frequency grayed out for your fronts? If so, all freqs will be sent to the speakers, no crossover.
 

JackKnob

Novice Member
I have a Yamaha 685. Is the the box that displays the crossover frequency grayed out for your fronts? If so, all freqs will be sent to the speakers, no crossover.
My receiver is older and only has a global crossover. With all speakers to large the crossover is not greyed out and still allows for adjusting.
 

Aggromemnon

Standard Member
Duh, just saw you had the 663 in the title. I used to have one of those. The menu is in black and white, right? I follow now. I would trust what the receiver finds to be the sweet spot for crossover and keep it at 60hz. As I said, the YPAO calibration has no idea what your speakers are capable of in a lab setting, but in your room, the lowest, good performance frequency is 60hz.

Dante's much smarter than I, and he may add more. Hopefully he checks in and either agrees with me or blows my assertion out of the water.
 

JackKnob

Novice Member
Duh, just saw you had the 663 in the title. I used to have one of those. The menu is in black and white, right? I follow now. I would trust what the receiver finds to be the sweet spot for crossover and keep it at 60hz. As I said, the YPAO calibration has no idea what your speakers are capable of in a lab setting, but in your room, the lowest, good performance frequency is 60hz.

Dante's much smarter than I, and he may add more. Hopefully he checks in and either agrees with me or blows my assertion out of the water.
Yep it's in black and white! I ran it a few more times. It set all speakers to large except center to small. Crossover at 100hz. It picked the same exact values two times in a row so I'm just going to keep it as is and not worry about it. It sounds good.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
If no sub is presennt then the calibration wouldn;t detect one and the front speaker (left and right) should be automatically set to LARGE. This isn't to say that the other speakers cannot be set as being SMALL and if this is the case then their associated crossobers would redirect the frequencies at and below their setting to the front left and right speaker. You can of cause manually override this, but if the AVR is determining that they need to be set as being SMALL then it is very unlikely that they'd portray the frequencies the crossover filter had been set to by the AVR correctly.

No idea as to why you originally ended up with the front left and right set as SMALL? This shouldn't technically be possible is the AV receiver were correctly configured to not include a sub. THe front have to be assign as being LARGE in such a setup and you'd not be able to set them as being SMALL without also setting the subwoofer setting to USE or PRESENT.

In a setup devoid of a sub, the front left and right speakers are effectively treated as though they are the sub. All crossover filters will direct the frequenvies at and below their settings to the front left and right speakers as well as the dicrete LFE channel being sent to them if and when present.
 

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