Yamaha RX-V585 settings help

Laubi02

Distinguished Member
Hi all,

Been playing around with settings for a while now but I still get a feeling that I can’t seem to find a setting which really make the surround sound (as in the rear speakers) really stand out? Compared to my previous budget onkyo, the surround sound seems a lot quieter (I notice rear sound effects less).

I’ve used the calibration mic but found it to not be accurate. I even tried boosting the levels at the rear speakers to max (whilst others at 30-50%). When playing the test tone, the rear speakers are clearer a lot louder too.

However, when playing movies (even 4k discs via xbox one X directly plugged into TV (with ARC out to AVR), the surround sound sometimes seem negligible.

So far, think the best setting I have is either leave the Surround decode to auto or Neo:6 Cinema; also turning dynamic range on.

Any help on best setting would be much appreciated please – prioritising movies.



Thanks in advance
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I'd suggest that the mic will be accurate and will have correctly measured the levels.

Maybe your previous Onkyo receiver wasn'r calibrated correctly and the surround levels may have been set too high on that receover?

Anyway, you can download an SPL meter onto most iOS or Android devices and use thatto measure the levels. You can also manually invoke the test tone from within the AV receiver's speaker configurations. I'd suggest you do this to check that all the levels are the same. I'd not expect such a meter to be able to measure a sub accurately though so I'd not worry if you don't get the same measurements relative to the sub's output.

Ypur surrounds should not be louder and a correctly calibrated setup would result in all speakers being levelled so as you measiring the same SPL as measured from your seated listening location for each and every speaker. THe surrounds shouldn;t be louder than the front speakers.

Some content simply wont utilise the surround speakers as much as you appear to be expecting it to. Maybe it is more a matter of your expectations being too high and not in accordance with what the surrounds would actually be mixed to poirtray?
 

Laubi02

Distinguished Member
I'd suggest that the mic will be accurate and will have correctly measured the levels.

Maybe your previous Onkyo receiver wasn'r calibrated correctly and the surround levels may have been set too high on that receover?

Anyway, you can download an SPL meter onto most iOS or Android devices and use thatto measure the levels. You can also manually invoke the test tone from within the AV receiver's speaker configurations. I'd suggest you do this to check that all the levels are the same. I'd not expect such a meter to be able to measure a sub accurately though so I'd not worry if you don't get the same measurements relative to the sub's output.

Ypur surrounds should not be louder and a correctly calibrated setup would result in all speakers being levelled so as you measiring the same SPL as measured from your seated listening location for each and every speaker. THe surrounds shouldn;t be louder than the front speakers.

Some content simply wont utilise the surround speakers as much as you appear to be expecting it to. Maybe it is more a matter of your expectations being too high and not in accordance with what the surrounds would actually be mixed to poirtray?
Thanks.

I appreciate it is somewhat subjective and hard to find a direct comparison now I no longer have the old receiver. Therefore I am simply going by experience with watching 'lots' of movies where scenes where I would assume there'll be noticeable surround sound effects (like objects flying past the camera etc.).

I have owned this receiver for nearly a year so felt I have watched enough movies with this scene to form some kind of comparison - albeit not scientific.

I am not wanting the rear speakers to be louder and undertsand the point is to level out using th mic. My point about raising the rear speakers higher was just to purposely push them higher to test if things would improve.

Notwithstanding the above, is there such a thing as a general 'best' setting for movies? Think I usually run:

Surround Decoder: Auto
Enhancer: On
Adaptive DRC: On
Extra Bass: Off
'Some dialogue lift etc.'
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
As said, it is easy enough to chexk that the level are actually equal or close to equal by using an SPL meter. You can download such meters for free onto most Andoroid or iOS devices. You'd not be needing accurate measurements, simply an indication that each speakers is resulting in the same aproximate level as measured from your seated location.

The best setting is whatever floats your boat? Most would suggest portraying most film soundtracks as is and without any additional DSP processing. You achieve this by engaging your AV receiver's STRAIGHT mode. This will bypass any SUR. DECODER upmxing modes or any of Yamaha's DSP Programs.

I'd suggest tirning DRS off. This compresses the audio and isn;t desirable. Try using the AV receiver's YPAO VOLUME and Adaptive DRC instead if limited to lower than reference listening levels.

DIALOGUE LIFT isn''t a dialogue eng]hancement and simply changes where you'd perceive the centre channel to be eminating from. It may not even be in effect in association with some formats? It basically lifts where the centre speaker is and creates a virtual centre speaker higher up than the physical location.

You could also try different PEQ modes. NATURAL or FLAT are ordinarilly the most popular choices. THe latter would result in more detail, but can also be a little tiring for long periods of listening in smaller rooms. FLAT does however correspond more closely with what would have been the setup during the mix of film soundtracks.
 
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Laubi02

Distinguished Member
As said, it is easy enough to chexk that the level are actually equal or close to equal by using an SPL meter. You can download such meters for free onto most Andoroid or iOS devices. You'd not be needing accurate measurements, simply an indication that each speakers is resulting in the same aproximate level as measured from your seated location.

The best setting is whatever floats your boat? Most would suggest portraying most film soundtracks as is and without any additional DSP processing. You achieve this by engaging your AV receiver's STRAIGHT mode. This will bypass any SUR. DECODER upmxing modes or any of Yamaha's DSP Programs.

I'd suggest tirning DRS off. This compresses the audio and isn;t desirable. Try using the AV receiver's YPAO VOLUME and Adaptive DRC instead if limited to lower than reference listening levels.

DIALOGUE LIFT isn''t a dialogue eng]hancement and simply changes where you'd perceive the centre channel to be eminating from. It may not even be in effect in association with some formats? It basically lifts where the centre speaker is and creates a virtual centre speaker higher up than the physical location.

Thanks again, I will try the app to see how I get on. I do have the yamaha calibration mic so am I right in assuming that would be a better way to do it than using a phone app?

Will try turning mostly everything off but without enhancer, it always seem a lot quieter and rear speakers feel non existent sometimes.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You'd be using your own meter to ensure that the results attained by the Tamaha mic are correct. The mic could be faulty so you'd want to use something other than that mic to check the levels with.

If too quiet then simply increase the master volume. You wont get the full dynamic range at lower listening levels. You should ideally be listening at reference, but this is rather loud and not very neighbout friendly.
 

Laubi02

Distinguished Member
You'd be using your own meter to ensure that the results attained by the Tamaha mic are correct. The mic could be faulty so you'd want to use something other than that mic to check the levels with.

If too quiet then simply increase the master volume. You wont get the full dynamic range at lower listening levels. You should ideally be listening at reference, but this is rather loud and not very neighbout friendly.
ahh i see. doh!

sorry for being stupid but what does listening at reference mean? subject to windows being closed, I am fortunate to be detached and a fair bit away from neighbours so hoping it'll be ok.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
All film soundtracks are mixed at a universally recognised reference level. The same level is used when calibrating the sound systems in most cinemas and most if not all AV receivers set their master volume level up relative to what approximates this reference. In a correctly calibrated setup the 0db master volume level equates to this reference and it should equal a measurement of 75db if portraying the test tone at 0db master volume as measured from your listening location.



The home theatre interpretation of this isn't as loud as you'd experience in a cinema, but is not that far off and still LOUD.


If wanting to lusten to film soundtracks and hear them as close as you can to what the person mixing them heard then listen while setting the master volume to 0db. This results in you getting roughly the same dynamic range as experienced by that sound engineer.
 
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Laubi02

Distinguished Member
t
All film soundtracks are mixed at a universally recognised reference level. The same level is used when calibratin the sound systems in most cinemas and most if not all AV receivers set their master volume level up using what approximates this same reference. In a correctly calibrated setup the 0db master volume level equates to this reference and it should equal a measurement of 75db if portray the test tone at 0db master volume as measured from your listening location.



The home theatre interpretation of this isn't as loud as you'd experience in a cinema, but is not that far off and still LOUD.


If wanting to lusten to film soundtracks and hear them as close as you can to what the person mixing them heard then listen while setting the master volume to 0db. This results in you getting roughly the same dynamic range as experienced by that sound engineer.

Thanks, thats really useful and interesting.

So if I read it right, I should:

1) turn off all digital enhancers/setting (i.e. enhancer; dialogue boost stuff; bass boost etc.) - maybe keep adaptive DRC.
2) use YPAO mic calibration
3) use phone app to test the test tone sound and hope to get 75db from each speaker at seating position? (would I need to change the test tone/level cab to 0 for this step?)
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Most will turn off additional effects like processing if listening to discrete multichannel soundtracks, but there's no golden rule to this and only the sound Nazis would insist that you don't upmix such soundtracks or use DSP features relative to them. I personally tend not to apply upmixing to most content apart from while watching TV, but this is mainly due to the fact that most TV content is only 2 channel stereo in nature.

Neither is there anything to prevent you applying or using any feature that enhances your listening experience. One man's meat is another man's murder :)

Yeah, I'd strongly advise you calibrate the AV receiver using the supplied mic. If you haven't already then it is very unlikely that you speakers would be balanced correctly relative to your listening location. Neither would the AV receiver's PEQ room correction be in effect if you've not run the YPAO calubration?

The phone app is just a reasurance that the levels are roughly all equal and you can use the results to fine tune the levels if need be?

You'd not need to set the AV receiver to 0db master volume if simply checking whether the speakers are levelled. Just ensure that they measure roughly the same SPL as measured from roughly where you located the mic during the calibration. Set the meter to C weighting with a SLOW response.
 
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