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Yamaha RX-V2500 buyers beware

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Zacabeb, Dec 28, 2004.

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  1. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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    I picked up my RX-V2500 today, but got a very unpleasant surprise when setting it up. Some things just don't work out the way they used to on Yamaha receivers, they're a lot more cumbersome in spite of (or because of) the posh on-screen GUI (graphical user interface).

    First of all, selecting sound fields and programs, and adjusting their parameters works differently now. In the past, you could step back and forth through the programs by pressing the left/right buttons on the remote, and step through parameters (when available) using the up/down buttons.

    This does not work on the RX-V2500; you must use the GUI for making these adjustments, meaning you must have your display permanently hooked up to the monitor output, and either route all video signals through the amp or hook the amp to a separate input on your display and toggle to it whenever you want to change a parameter. This is disasterous if you intend to use it for non-video sources, for instance music listening in Dolby Pro Logic II mode. If you want to simply change the center width, you have to go through the on-screen menu.

    When in the GUI, the option is not reflected on the receiver's display, it simply reads "GUI" (graphical user interface) in order to inform you, or taunt you, depending on how you see it.

    I see no logical reason for Yamaha to remove the traditional shorthand method of adjusting parameters other than sheer stupidity on their behalf, because it worked perfectly and was an incredibly, unbeatably convenient way of making quick changes to parameters on-the-fly, which was fully intentional. But they can't be blamed for being the first electronics company to do something stupid for no meaningful reason. They can most likely fix this issue through a firmware upgrade if enough people demand it.

    The other is the manual speaker level adjustment. Unlike the RX-V1500, you can't turn on the test tone using a button on the remote, but again you must use the on-screen menu system. There is an option for turning on the test tone in there, but it doesn't seem to be useful for anything. Once you leave that submenu it turns off again. The only function it serves is to scare the living daylights out of you the first time you try it by playing back pink noise at -0dB.

    Going to the speaker level submenu, as you step through the speakers and adjust them the tone toggles on again (at -0dB, regardless of the volume setting) but you have to step through the speakers manually and on your way step through any unused speakers, which are grayed out. This means you cannot directly compare L/C/R to Ls/Rs levels by ear, so you're left with either using an SPL meter and all the patience you can muster, or fully trusting YPAO to do the job during auto setup. So much for manual adjustment. :rolleyes:

    Again, this is something Yamaha could have done better and probably fix in a firmware upgrade if enough people complain.

    If you're eyeing (or should that be earing? :p) an RX-V2500, you may want to consider if those two stupid limitations of it will cause problems in your setup. There are probably much worse designs out there from various brands, but that's no excuse for a company who used to do things right to suddenly start doing things wrong.
     
  2. dinoprada2003

    dinoprada2003
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    Blast! is this the same case with the 1500 as well?
     
  3. Tejstar

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    Are you absolutely positive this is the case? It seems like a major limitation in my book :(
     
  4. Poolsharkie69

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    On my 1500 I can do all those adjustments without using the onscreen display to my tele. It displays the info on the front panel of the amp while using my remote to make the adjustments.
     
  5. Tejstar

    Tejstar
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    That's what makes me think that the 2500 can do the same...
     
  6. betamac

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    I have the 2500 and can confirm all setup can be done with the LCD Display

    although one of the real superb things about the AMP is the GUI

    To Cycle through the different modes you no longer use the arrow keys you press the select button (number 7) after you have chosen the main step

    EG Choose standard by pressing the standard button then press button 7 to cycle through PL2, PL2X, etc etc its all displayed on the LCD as with the other Yamaha Amps

    Will also add i find this method much easier as well as i always used to get confused on the 1400 by pressing left and right to select options i used to press the wrong button constantly now after you have cycled to what you want you prsss the middle enter button instead of right on the arrow keys much better.
     
  7. Tejstar

    Tejstar
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    Thanks betamac for confirming this :thumbsup:
     
  8. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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    Maybe I should have been a bit clearer about what cannot be set up without a monitor. Like Poolsharkie69 and betamac said, you can do the system setup using only the front-panel display if you want to (it's simply a separate mode for setup with the same settings and structure as the GUI). You can also cycle between decoder types without using the GUI by either pressing the Select button repeatedly, or pressing it once and then cycling left and right using the arrow keys. That's not a problem once you get used to it.

    The thing you cannot do using only the front panel display is make parameter adjustments to sound fields, or Dolby Pro Logic II/x Music and DTS Neo:6 Music. For instance, if you want to turn Panorama mode on and off in Dolby Pro Logic II Music or adjust Liveness or Room Size settings in a HiFi DSP program, you must use the GUI. They could at least have added this into the front panel setup menu with all the other settings, but for some odd reason that's the one thing they left out. :confused:

    I'm not sure, but I recall from trying it out in the store that even on the RX-V1500, if you press up/down on the remote when in a mode with adjustable parameters, you can cycle through them on directly on the front panel display.

    It might be added though that it should be possible to control these parameters through the RS-232 interface, making it possible to create extremely elaborate workarounds.
     
  9. betamac

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    I never touch those controls myself so does not really effect me personly although i do use AMP for video switching so its always hooked upto Plasma for GUI use
     
  10. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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    Now that I've looked through some manuals for older Yamaha amps/receivers, it seems that they may have quit supporting the old method of adjusting sound field parameters already a pair of generations ago, which should mean this is the case not just the RX-V2500, but the 1500, 2400, and 1500 as well.I sorely miss that feature. :(

    If this is the case with all their late products, you're not at a loss in any way (aside from shelling out some extra money, of course) if picking the RX-V2500 over any of its siblings.
     
  11. pragmatic

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    Just to confirm you CAN change sound program i.e. DSP with the remote and without the GUI.
     
  12. Tejstar

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    Zacabeb - Do these sound field parameters need adjusting that often though. I would have thought that once you've done your initial fiddling you can leave it alone?

    I suppose if they allowed you to do it in the past it can be annoying when they stop supporting something you've come to depend on.
     
  13. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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    With their initial settings, the HiFi DSP programs represent the acoustics in the actual venues that were measured, so you don't have to adjust them unless you want to play around. You may want to trim the parameters in some of the programs though as they tend to be very "live", for instance the Movie Theater programs. Once you have done that and feel content you can probably leave the parameters at those settings.

    Dolby Pro Logic II/x Music and Neo:6 Music are different though, if you use them you may want to trim the parameters depending on each recording to get the best result.
     
  14. Markie Boy

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    So Zacabeb, all these quibbles aside, are you enjoying your Yamaha RX-V2500?
     
  15. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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    Those quibbles aside, I am indeed enjoying the RX-V2500 so far. :)

    It sounds much better than I dared anticipate, and the build quality seems very good. It's heavy and has a very rigid feel (the manual lists the weight as 15.5kg like the RX-V1500, but it's probably a misprint as the gross weight of the box was 21kg). The next big project for me is to invest in better quality and timbre matched speakers. My current setup has an old AR Athena sub/satellite system for the front, but rather simple Yamaha center and surround speakers that don't quite cut it anymore, the center speaker in particular.

    The GUI is really nice too, for instance you can see a plot of the frequency response set in the parametric equalizer for each channel, giving a visual impression of what corrections were made by YPAO. So, the GUI isn't just pretty to look at, it is also more intuitive.

    One thing that made me a bit worried was that the internal fan didn't engage even though I had set it to continuous operation in the advanced installation menu (which is where you also set up speaker impedance before installing the speakers). Since I have a service manual for the RX-V1500 I was able to go into the diagnostics menu and test the fan, and it does work. It seems as if the RX-V2500 ignores the fan mode setting for some reason and always treats it as automatic.
     
  16. Markie Boy

    Markie Boy
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    Any chance of a PDF copy of the RXV1500 service manual?
     
  17. Zacabeb

    Zacabeb
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    Yamaha had erroneously put it up instead of the owner's manual on their pan-European site, but now they've replaced it with the owner's manual. Since their service manuals are not really supposed to be released officially, I don't want to send a copy to anyone though.

    Official Yamaha Service Manals can be bought from http://www.schaltungsdienst.de/, but I don't know if they sell them to the public. I'm going to try and buy an RX-V2500 service manual from them though some day so I can get some insight into how it differs from the RX-V1500.
     

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