I have now run YPAO with multiple measurements and it has made slightly smaller PEQ adjustments across the frequency range and has set the sub output 4.5dB higher than it did previously with a single measurement. All good.
It has probably been posted before in other Yamaha threads but this was a useful article for me on YPAO:
Yamaha YPAO R.S.C – Take Two
HB
Yes, true but it's also the limitation of the Yamaha microphone not the Yamaha software and because of this YPAO still only attempts to EQ the sub to ~30Hz. The automated YPAO does NOT use and EQ the 15Hz PEQ band. To EQ down further to 15Hz you need to copy the YPAO results to manual and activate 15Hz as one of the PEQ adjustable bands.
Antimode for one sub only is ~£230+ whereas a Umik-1 is around £85 including shipping. When combining a Umik-1 (or similar) with REW (free!) you can analyse and adjust all speakers in multiple systems if required to your heart's content.
HB
Unfortunately, this is not the case as I have seen in my own set up. 15Hz is only adjustable manually as Yamaha are honest enough to state that their bundled mic is just not accurate enough. See half way down here for confirmation.
No but REW will tell you the bands, cuts and Q values to apply. I'm not suggesting people do it and am in fact saying the opposite. YPAO already does a very good job. However, if I were to start doing my own measurements and adjustments then the Umik-1/REW is a much more comprehensive solution than Antimode.
HB
Hi dante01, I am a new member and will be purchasing a new RX-A3070 next week. I have read the manual from top to bottom and inside out as well. You seem to be in the know and I need a bit of advise. I have a Velodyne Sub SPL 1200 which has it's own room correction and sets it's own EQ as such. Before doing YPAO should I select 'no' sub assign and do the YPAO for the 3070 and then do the room calibration with the Velodyne and then select 'yes' on the 3070 sub assign ?Thanks.
I think a lot of the rhetoric against PEQ is due to Audyssey continually criticising parametric EQ systems due to the fact that Audyssey MultEQ is not a parametric system. It has to be remembersd that Yamaha have actually been messing with audio for longer than either Audyssey or THX. If it were not for Yamaha's help then Dolby wouldn't have been able to develop Dolby Surround (the original one and not the current upmixing). I think one major advantage YPAO has over Audyssey is the fact it doesn't downsample the audio and can portray digital audio with HD sample rates.
I've had both Denon and Yamaha receivers and cannot say that Audyssey resulted in anything better than I've had from YPAO.
Hi dante01, I am a new member and will be purchasing a new RX-A3070 next week. I have read the manual from top to bottom and inside out as well. You seem to be in the know and I need a bit of advise. I have a Velodyne Sub SPL 1200 which has it's own room correction and sets it's own EQ as such. Before doing YPAO should I select 'no' sub assign and do the YPAO for the 3070 and then do the room calibration with the Velodyne and then select 'yes' on the 3070 sub assign ?
Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Regards Paul.
I have the A3070 and while ypao works well, it doesn't for the sub.
My new Svs SB2000 while working, doesn't perform to the best of its abilities (very quiet). I read similar comments last year in the 3060 thread.
I'm going to have to tinker with the P EQ as changing the crossover to 80 and all speakers to small hasn't made too much difference.
Thankfully my l/r provide decent bass, but I want to hear the Svs sing !
Maybe look into using an Antimode? This isn't guranteed to result in better EQ cirrection than the sub's own built in correction though, but the Antimode has a good reputation and is well regarded.
Thanks dante01 I will get back to you next week with the results.It is unfortunately a matter of subjectives. You are going to have to judge for yourself which of the following gives you the best results
1. Run the sub's inbuilt room EQ correction prior to running the receivers.
2. Run the sub's EQcorrection after running the receiver's.
3. Diaable the sub's own EQ correction in favour of the receiver's
In theory the better sub correction should win out and result in the best sounding setup. Audyssey always suggest you run the sub's own correction first and then run Audyssey's correction, but they are biased and will always sugest that Audyssey is superior to any other form of room EQ correction or filtering.
Yamaha's PEQ has a poor rep though in relation to sub bass so I've a feeling that the sub's own filtering will win out so I'd favour running that post running the receiver's YPAO calibration.
Will have to do more tinkering.
I used a level meter (forgot I had one) and adjusted (so put the amp to 0db and test tone) adjusted level to get a reading of 75 on the meter and it certainly sounds louder/clearer. The sub - didn't want to adjust level up to 10, so moved sub volume (physical volume knob in sub)from 10 o'clock to 1 o'clock with gain 8, still not reaching 75 on meter but about 67 and the room was vibrating.
So back on normal content and the sub is certainly kicking in now but centre is a bit to lively.
I'll go back to ypao setting and compare - I'm sure there's a way to copy the ypao reading to overwrite the manual adjustment.
Don't know if it's because I'm used to the ypao setup that the manual meter setup sounds too... unbalanced, the l/r have gone from dominating with centre on par and quiet sub to centre and sub dominating and the l/r not really getting a look in.
Can't imagine what the SB2000 must be like on full volume, it's a beast!!
You are very unlikely to be able to accurately measure the SPL of the frequencies ordinarilly output via a sub. AV receivers use other factors alongside an SPL measurement to determine where to set a subwoofers output level. The best you can do without having access to pro grade measurement tools is to adjust the passive speakers and then adjust the sub by the same degree. If you used an SPL meter to set the sub's level then chances are that level is incorrect.
THe mic that comes with Yamaha receivers is well regarded and fairs well even when compared to a umik pro grade USB mic. It is doubtful that using an SPL meter to manually calibrate the levels will result in anything better than what you got when using the receiver's own mic and YPAO calibration?
I get lost on this subject of the correct level of db at 0-0db. Way back someone said that with yamaha receivers 0-0db at main volume on receiver should be about 85db and on Denon receivers 0-0db about 75 db.which is correct.
Will have to do more tinkering.
I used a level meter (forgot I had one) and adjusted (so put the amp to 0db and test tone) adjusted level to get a reading of 75 on the meter and it certainly sounds louder/clearer. The sub - didn't want to adjust level up to 10, so moved sub volume (physical volume knob in sub)from 10 o'clock to 1 o'clock with gain 8, still not reaching 75 on meter but about 67 and the room was vibrating.
So back on normal content and the sub is certainly kicking in now but centre is a bit to lively.
I'll go back to ypao setting and compare - I'm sure there's a way to copy the ypao reading to overwrite the manual adjustment.
Don't know if it's because I'm used to the ypao setup that the manual meter setup sounds too... unbalanced, the l/r have gone from dominating with centre on par and quiet sub to centre and sub dominating and the l/r not really getting a look in.
Can't imagine what the SB2000 must be like on full volume, it's a beast!!
I'd turn the gain up on the sub a bit more if you can so that the Yamaha has a bit more room for auto gain adjustment and run YAPO again.
Have you run YAPO from multiple points? When I first got mine I ran it from one spot only and it set the sub 4.5dB lower than when later run with multiple points. Once you've done the auto set up over multiple points (including angles) you can tinker with the levels, delays, X-overs etc. via the manual set up.
All of my levels and delays (shown as distance) were spot on. The sub correctly showed a bigger delay (distance) as it has additional amplification/processing going on. The only thing I changed was the X-overs to 80Hz for the fronts (from 40Hz) and to 100Hz for the surrounds (from 80Hz). You can copy the YAPO settings and play with the PEQ manually but YAPO natural sounds good.
When I've got some spare time I'm going to measure what YAPO has achieved using REW/UMIK-1 and also fine tune the sub PEQ below 31Hz. For now though I'm more than happy.
HB