Question Yamaha Flagship or Alternative AV - HELP

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by AaronA, Jul 13, 2015.

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  1. AaronA

    AaronA
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    Hi All,

    I've completely amended this request for help to broaden my horizons.

    I've sold off most of my system and I had an option to purchase a new Yamaha RX-A2040 for a good price as Yamaha are about to release the new range. Unfortunately I've just been advised by the dealer their stock list wasn't updated and its no longer available. This is what this thread was initially about. They have offered me a new/open box 3040 for £1,300 as an alternative.

    I'm quite happy to hold fire and see what else is available sub £1,000, used is an option. As an example, I've just come across a couple the slightly older 3030 for £730 and £830 brand new (missed the cheaper one). From the reviews and spec, this looks like a great contender and well priced?

    Discussing this over the past couple of days has kind of re-affirmed, I should be looking at a flagship model to deliver on my expectations for music and movies :)

    My current system is the following kit;

    • ProAc Studio 140 Front and Centre and Hexa Rear Speakers – 5 Speakers
    • Pioneer Kuru PDP-428XD Plasma TV
    • Pioneer DV989AVi DVD/SACD Player
    • IPod Touch for Music/Media
    • Fujitsu Lifebook Laptop for Music/Movies/Media
    My room where the kit is located is approx 7.5M x 4M. I'll be watching movies via the DVD/SACD or Laptop and playing music via the DVD/SACD, Laptop and IPod Touch.

    I'm interested to hear from members with experience of the 3030, 3040 or an alternative receiver that delivers both musically via 2 channel as well as sound/vision via 5 channel. If you have a similar setup, please shout :)

    Thank-you in advance :)

    Aaron
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2015
  2. sjackson

    sjackson
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    I have the bigger 3040 (which is for sale in the classifieds if any interest as I'm going separates) and was listening to it yesterday evening in the garden powering Monitor Audio CL80 speakers and I was very very impressed (even on Spotify). I'm a 95% movies person with most music listened to on a Denon system I have in the kitchen but I was surprised at how good the Yam was. As for movies the Yam is simply stunning (powering my Monitor Audio Apex speakers).
     
  3. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    The amp stages in the 2040 are pretty poor, it's only something like 45W per channel
     
  4. dante01

    dante01
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    ???


    So how many channel driven does that relate to and in relation to what impedance load? Where exactly are you getting that rating from?

    It should be noted that the ProAc speakers have a nominal impedance of 4ohm and are rated with a sensitivity of 91db.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  5. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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  6. dante01

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    and why would this be an issue anyway? I can't say I'm seeing multiple instances of users reporting distortion or lack of power. Is this yet again another opportunity for you to persue your obsession with power amps? Why does the OP need more power, especially given he'll get about twice the wattage you stated while powering his 4ohm and relatively sensitive speakers?

    Do you own this receiver?


    If the OP has a very large room then maybe he would need more power, but I fail to see why you insist on rating every receiver on its power ratings even if those ratings have no relevance?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  7. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    "twice the wattage you stated while powering his 4ohm and relatively sensitive speakers?"

    I would not use that receiver for 4 ohm speakers.

    If it drops in power with more channels driven, just what do you think happens when 4ohm speakers are used?
     
  8. dante01

    dante01
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    Why would you not use it to power 4ohm speakers? Yamaha rate every single one of their receivers for use with 4ohm loads.

    Many appear to be using the RXA2040 to power 4ohm speakers without issue. I've known amps a lot less powerful to be able to cope with low impedance loads. The wattage rating isn't a reflection of how capable any amplifier is in relation to the load imposed upon it. It is actually the capacitors used that determine the amplifier's resilience to the additional flow of current and not the size of the PSU.


    What I know will happen is that more power would be available in relation to a lower impedance load. What do you think happens when powering lower impedance loads? Wattage ratings in relation to 4ohm loads are higher than those in relation to higher impedance loads.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  9. dante01

    dante01
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    From the very review you use as reason to consider the RXA2040 underpowered:

    At no point does the review say anything about the receiver being under powered????


    and do you know what, the review was done using PSB Synchrony One speakers which are rated 4ohm with a sensitivity of 90db.

    http://www.psbspeakers.com/content/130129093350-13-014_PSB_Synchrony_One_English_Specifications.pdf

    Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040 AV Receiver Review | Sound & Vision
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  10. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    Where does it get that extra power from? A magical place? Remember if the power output is dropping with more channels that means the power supply is incapable.

    It seems you can't let it go, I've given you tests showing it's not very powerful, and just like r22flyer you keep on.

    Show 2040 output power with 7, 4 ohm speakers and let's see who is right.
     
  11. dante01

    dante01
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    THe rating you gave is only in relation to an impedance of 8ohm. There's no rating in relation to 4ohm done by the same review, but if there were then the wattage rating would be greater and closer to double that given in relation to an 8ohm load.

    You simply gave a rating without actually stating what the conditions were under which it was obtained. Neither do you know the OPs requirements in relation to the space he needs to fill with sound or the distance he wil be sat from the speakers. Sorry, but why is the receiver not powerful enough?

    The review itself was done using 4ohm speakers and the results were favourable, yet you say not to use this receiver with 4ohm speakers. Why?
     
  12. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    Find bench tests with 4 ohm speakers.

    If you understood electronics, which I don't think you do, you'll understand power output into 4ohm won't be higher with this amplifier power output lowers the more speakers you connect.

    Or find what the rating of the power supply is.

    This isn't a ATI 6007, where they include a huge power supply that IS specced with 7 x 4ohm speakers (300W+ per channel)

    ie

    NR 128.7dB at 300 Watt into 8 Ohms (49.2VRMS)
    SNR 127.6dB at 470 Watt into 4 Ohms (43.3VRMS)

    I bet the Yamaha WON'T output >42W, all channels driven, with all 4 ohm speakers connected
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  13. dante01

    dante01
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    Are you suggesting the rating would be even lower in relation to 4ohm speakers? If you are then you are an idiot. Sorry, but it is true, By the way, Yamaha do give two channel ratings in relation to 4, 6 and 8 ohm loads. Unfortunately not in relation to all channels driven though.
     
  14. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    No you are the idiot. I am aware power increases to 4ohm IF the amp is capable. ie any half decent model, Rotel, Emotiva, Nakamichi, ATI, Krell, Parasound etc

    One that is not? Find bench tests with 2040 and let's see who is right (4ohm)
     
  15. dante01

    dante01
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    Are you aware? So why imply it didn't increae the wattage then and suggested it wouldn't?

    You can pop off and search for bench tests if you want. The bench test you found in relation to 8 ohms loads came in association with a favourable review of the receiver carroed out using 4 ohm speakers., yet you suggest not to use 4ohm speakers with it? Maybe try reading the reviews as opposed to skipping to the end and spouting the wattage results of the bench tests.

    Again, why is more power needed? The test is irrelevant anyway because thee test is done under circumstances that will never be required in a real world situation.

    Do you own this receiver?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  16. sjackson

    sjackson
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    Ah lads.... Not really on topic is it? Ye really should get a room.... :love:
     
  17. dante01

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    Sorry, but stephenbarnes does have an habit of doing this. His point of view is that everyone needs a power amp, but fails to accept that this forum's title is intergrated Amplifiers and Receivers. His solution to anything and everything is to get a power amp.

    The very review he used to pilfer the bench test from used 4ohm speakers to give the receiver a favourable rating. They didn't think it under powered, but stephenbarnes does after never hearing one or having access to one and by using the results lifted from a review that rates it highly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  18. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    "Unfortunately not in relation to all channels driven though."

    And that's the kicker.

    With that bench test, it shows it can't output more than 300W.

    This is for another amplifier, however are you still sticking with "always more power into 4 ohm?"

    http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...receiver-ht-labs-measures#OBbIvmjKdG1oxrC5.97

    "This graph shows that the RD-7503’s left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 72.1 watts and 1 percent distortion at 86.7 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 72.0 watts and 1 percent distortion at 73.6 watts.
    Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/conte...receiver-ht-labs-measures#k69yI5kOMEotAudu.99"


    That amp is obviously so badly designed, the Yamaha is better but unless there is 4 ohm, all channels driven, I'll stick with my bet that power won't be more than 42W x 7
     
  19. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    And you have a habit when it comes to bass management you argue with other people who use large setting, for floorstanders (for music) Your arguement with r22flyer went on for pages and pages.

    Also when a £900 AVR is a paltry 42W amplifier with questionable 4 ohm drive, I think it's best to offer better alternatives.

    The Nakamichi AVP1 for one.
     
  20. dante01

    dante01
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    Please tell me which simliarly priced receivers have more power per channel at their disposal in relation to an 8ohm load with all channels driven?

    The Nakamichi AVP1 is a power amp and not an integrated AV receiver. As I said you are obsessed with power amps and posting in the wrong forum! Can the Nakamichi AVP1 also process the sources it is being fed and how much will a standalone processor able to process content to the same level as the RXA2040 cost?
     
  21. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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  22. dante01

    dante01
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    Do PIoneer get as favourable reviews with their Class D amps as those associated with simarly priced A/B amplified integrated AV receivers?

    No, the SR7009 which is the equivalent to the RXA2040 has much the same power ratings as the RXA2040.

    As I said, you are good at skipping the actual reviews and using them to retort the power ratings, but you've never actually heard any of the receivers you keep criticising or owned one.
     
  23. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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  24. dante01

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    Again, why is this a problem? It doesn't appear to have been one for the review where you got the power rating or for those actually using the receiver?

    Please explain to the OP why this makes the RXA2040 such an abysmal AV receiver depite the favourable reviews it got both in the press and from its owners?

    and you don't know why being a class D amp would make a difference and you'd buy it just because it had a higher power rating? :confused:

    Maybe the OP should forget about AV receivers altogether and get a PA system?

    And by the way, I own a Denon AVR3313 which has much the same power rating as the Marantz SR7008 and indeed uses much the same components in its construction. I also own a Yamaha RXV2065 which although not as good as the RXA2040 and uses lesser components is basically its predecessor and has the same power rating. Which do you think I rate as being the better sounding of the two?

    You on the other hand are basing your entire appraisal of the RXA2040 on a power rating given at the backend of a review that is actually favourable towards the RXA2040, the same review that used 4ohm speakers that are ever so less sensitive than those of the OP's to carry out the review with, which you say should never be used with the RXA2040 …


    eh???? Are you even bothering to read the reviews or do you jusy pop over there because they post the power ratings you bastardise for your own purposes?

    so again, why is this an issue given your knowledge of the OP's requirements, room and existing kit?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  25. stephenbarnes

    stephenbarnes
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    I see now why r22 flyer had a problem with you, you either don't get it, ignore, or twist it around.

    Why waste my time
     
  26. dante01

    dante01
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    Maybe you and r22flyer should start up a forum together? I can't think why you'd get on with one another though despite you trying to use my difference of opinion with him on a different matter to try substantiate your stance on an entirely different subject.

    Please pray tell, what does r22flyer have to do with this thread or its subject matter?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  27. AaronA

    AaronA
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    Wow - I've just read through the replies and I've completely revised my OP and request for help as the 2040 it turns out isn't in stock. I've copied the revised request below;

    Hi All,

    I've completely amended this request for help to broaden my horizons.

    I've sold off most of my system and I had an option to purchase a new Yamaha RX-A2040 for a good price as Yamaha are about to release the new range. Unfortunately I've just been advised by the dealer their stock list wasn't updated and its no longer available. This is what this thread was initially about. They have offered me a new/open box 3040 for £1,300 as an alternative.

    I'm quite happy to hold fire and see what else is available sub £1,000, used is an option. As an example, I've just come across a couple the slightly older 3030 for £730 and £830 brand new (missed the cheaper one). From the reviews and spec, this looks like a great contender and well priced?

    Discussing this over the past couple of days has kind of re-affirmed, I should be looking at a flagship model to deliver on my expectations for music and movies :)

    My current system is the following kit;
    • ProAc Studio 140 Front and Centre and Hexa Rear Speakers – 5 Speakers
    • Pioneer Kuru PDP-428XD Plasma TV
    • Pioneer DV989AVi DVD/SACD Player
    • IPod Touch for Music/Media
    • Fujitsu Lifebook Laptop for Music/Movies/Media
    My room where the kit is located is approx 7.5M x 4M. I'll be watching movies via the DVD/SACD or Laptop and playing music via the DVD/SACD, Laptop and IPod Touch.

    I'm interested to hear from members with experience of the 3030, 3040 or an alternative receiver that delivers both musically via 2 channel as well as sound/vision via 5 channel. If you have a similar setup, please shout :)

    Thank-you in advance :)

    Aaron
     
  28. dante01

    dante01
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    Maybe look at the Marantz SR7009? This is probably the best you'll get for under £1K. It is a 9.1 AV receiver with Atmos plus a paid option of Auro 3D. It has 11 channel processing that allows you to add an additional 2 channels of amplification via adding an external power amp which expands its Atmos capabilities to 7.1.4 if required. You can pick one up for about £800.


    There's an AVForums review of the SR7009 posted here:
    Marantz SR7009 AV Receiver Review | AVForums


    If able to afford one then the Denon AVRX7200W is also well worth a look. THis is future proofed by way of being able to have an optional paid HDCP 2.2 HDMI version 2.0a board upgrade. It is again Atmos enabled with an Auro 3D paid option and will be getting a free DTS:X update in the not so distant future. The receiver can be bought for £1,650 and the HDCP/HDMI update will cost you £150. Like the SR7009, it is a 9.1 receiver with 11 channel processing with the option to add an additional 2 channels of amplification. After the HDMI upgrade, it is basically no different to the Denon AVRX7200WA which has a retail price of £2.5K.


    There's an AVForums review of the AVRX7200W here:
    https://www.avforums.com/review/denon-avr-x7200w-review.11351
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2015
  29. Passingbat

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    Compared to the 3040, the 3030 lacks HDMI 2.0. Atmos and Wifi (it has a wired internet connection).
     
  30. AaronA

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    So I had a demo of the 3040 yesterday - Certainly a contender. As I suspected though, not quite up there when it comes to 2 channel stereo, but as many have said, I'll struggle to find that on an AV.

    In regard to the comparison of the 3030 - Is that the only difference? I guess I can connect direct to my router and devices - Wil the lack of HDMI 2.0 be a show stopper? Are there any other difference such as lack of music formats I should be looking out for?

    I'll certainly consider a second hand 3040 at the right price and I'll try to demo the other recommendations later in the week :)

    Thanks to all for the advice so far :)
     

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