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Yamaha DSP-AX757SE

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by game over, Oct 31, 2005.

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  1. game over

    game over
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    Please help I have just got a Yamaha 757 amp/receiver and have set it up using the auto tune thingy, the bit that confuses me is it asks you to turn the crossover to full on the sub and the vol to between 9-11 o'clock position before starting the setup, what I wanted to know is do you leave the controls like this after setup or is it just for setup.
    Also I feel that the vocals are a little quite and surround very loud, what is the best way of increasing the dialogue volume so that I’m not deafened when the surround kicks in, as at the minute I end up turning the main volume up and then all of a sudden some action starts and I’m deafened.
    My front speakers are the KEF Q4’s and Q6c which come with some foam inserts but it doesn’t tell me what these are used for (I know they go in the port of the speaker).
    Thanks for any advice I’m obviously very new to all this I have only ever owned out of the box system which obviously don’t have much to do in the way of setting up.
     
  2. karlak

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    You have the system I am looking at getting - What rears have you got? Which sub if any? I did read that the centre can be a 'little' quiet compared to the fronts, so I imagine you will need to increase the centre volume.

    I am no expert in these matters, but I understand that that the'bungs' are for bass tuning. A case of playing a soundtrack, listen to it with and without bungs - which is best? stick with that. Positioning of the speakers, room size and furnishings can all make a difference as to where you should bung or not.

    No doubt I will be corrected if my understanding is incorrect. When you have it all setup as you like it, I would be interested in your opinion of the stereo performance of the amp/speaker combo.

    Cheers
     
  3. Ekko Star

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    Try toggling between Large & Small speaker set up.

    If that doesn't help the Yamaha should have individual level settings for each speaker. It sounds like your auto tune hasn't quite gone right. Adjust the levels till they suit your taste.
     
  4. game over

    game over
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    Thanks,
    Any idea's on the sub bit? (do i leave the cross over on the sub left to max after the setup? and presumably let the amp do the settings).

    The auto setup has selected Large for all speakers i surpose i could try changing front centre to small. Will also experiment with the bungs.

    Re rear speakers I am using Celestrion F10's (made by KEF I belive?) and a Mordaunt Short 308 sub.
     
  5. Ekko Star

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    The usual crossover for a sub is 80Hz change it to around that, both on the amp and sub dial if it has one. The amp should be at that level as default ?

    Change the speakers form Large to Small. The LFE frequencies will be directed to the sub only then.

    That should help improve it quite a bit. You can always then go into speaker level setting and reduce the rear's dBs and up the centre dB. Suit until taste.

    It does help if you have matching fronts and matching rears. The sound field is far more balanced that way. However, no problems it means you have to fine tune it manually a bit more in order to get the sound stage panning smoothly and evenly across the 5 or 7 channels.
     
  6. game over

    game over
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    Thanks, the crossover is being set at 60hz by the auto setup thing. so should i change this or just set the amp on the sub to match (60hz)?
     
  7. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    It is recomemended to let the amp sort out the crossover, but it doesn't really matter.
    Have you done the auto setup, done it properly by making sure there arn't any other noises to confuse it and that its on a flat surface at the main listening position, not held in your hand.

    Tuning the system to sound best to you is the most important thing, and it may take a little trial and error. Turning down the rear surround and increasing the volume of the centre speaker sound sort out your problem to some extent. Try setting the auto setup to 'front' as this will make all other speakers take on the same charecteristics as the front left and right speakers. What cabling are you using? If your sub is good enough it is generaly suggeted to turn your speakers to small, this will give you amp a little more power to hand out to all the other frequencies rather than the low heavy ones which require more juice.
     
  8. Ekko Star

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    The amp will control your LFE's. 60Hz is fine. However set you sub's dial to at least that as well. If sub is set at lower than the amp then it wont kick in with all the LFE frequencies the amp will send.

    Do as Gaz has suggested and set to fronts, that will help. Check what DSP you have it set on as well just in case as some tend to suppress dialogue.

    Set it all up using plain old DD or DTS first before you experiment with the DSP's.
     
  9. game over

    game over
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    Gazbarber,
    Yes I am putting the mic in my listening position (placed on the headrest of the sofa) I am then closing all doors and even the curtains (as this is how i would watch a movie) then running the tests.
    Re wire I presume you are meaning for the speakers, I am using Gale XL189 and I have NOT bi-wired the speakers :rolleyes:
    If I change the front speakers to small instead of "large" which the amp has set them up as does'nt that mean the front speakers (most expensive) are not doing so much ? which as a newbie seem a starange as they are the better speakers?

    Thanks all for your help.
     
  10. Arif

    Arif
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    Hi!

    I'm going to go beyond 'suggesting', all the way to 'advising'...

    I think that Auto Set-up is a waste of time - and can cost you a lot more in terms of inoptimally-set system parameters (as I think you're finding) - and aggro full stop.

    There's so little to a decent initial set-up - that I don't see the point of trying to automate it. The machine can only guess - and it often gets this wrong.

    You only need to sit down with the manual to figure out how to set the speaker distances, speaker settings (5.1?6.1? Large? Small?), & speaker levels (volume for each channel). All with the system's own test-tones. This way you're not left wondering what on earth it's decided to set - and you can rest assured that you know exactly how things have indeed been set. Then you're in the very powerful position of knowing exactly what to tweak, when something isn't quite right.

    I have the DSP757 version - both beautiful units, IMO. The extra thing you can set on this is the LFE level (I leave mine on say -5dB) - and the crossover. On this whole question - the rule is that if your sub does not have a crossover bypass - then you need to set this to it's highest setting - and then indeed as the others say - let the amp do the crossing over. Nominally 80Hz on the amp is what you'll find - have fun playing with where you'd like this point to lie - the point at which the amp distributes to the sub those frequencies which lie below the point you've set. You'd for example want a much lower crossover than me - cos my satellites are silly little things compared to yours (KEF2005.2 'Eggs') - and so I'd let the sub take over a lot sooner (higher Hertz figure).

    With decent hifi-grade speakers - you may find that you can let them have everything down to say 70 Hertz or 60 - beyond which you've decided to let the sub handle the rest down to 20Hertz and beyond.

    Also – for example – the advice to set your fronts to Small – this only stems from the very weird symptoms that your auto set-up has produced, comprising a way of 'playing' or fooling your finnicky auto set-up into producing the results you're after. Your instinct is in my opinion correct – do set them to Large – because you can bet that it’s another variable that’s amiss – which the auto set-up has fuzzed over, & prevented you from seeing. Just know what you want - go to the menu and change the relevant setting - it's that simple. You shouldn't have to faff about with coaxing results out of your auto set-up! Bypass it altogether.

    So - that's my two penny's-worth!

    It sounds like a wicked system indeed - an amp I can vouch for personally - and you should be nothing but completely happy with how it all sounds and comes together.

    That's the bottom line - you can go 'beyond' this (not something that I ever saw the need for) - down the Behringer Feedback Destroyer route, etc - but you should even without such measures - be very happy indeed, because you have your ears - and all the parameters you could wish for, to be able to tweak and vary.

    E.g. With your problem as mentioned above - you'd just bomb straight over to the very easy-to-use settings menu - and bump up the output for the speakers you want - and down, etc. You can even set the speaker levels in real-time - while watching a movie - not just in test-tone mode. Wicked amp.

    Good luck!!
     
  11. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Yep that is always the initial idea, i bought these massive speakers but i'm just gonna use them as it they were small ? Well the bigger speakers may not be producing the sound below the crossover (say 80hz) but the sounds above that will be better the amp will have more control over the speakers with highs and mids sounding better, if your sub is good it''ll do a better job than your floorstanders anyway. The sub fequencies above 80hz should also sound better than they did before (something a bookshelf cannot as it doesn't have the physical traits and design that a floorstander does)

    Don't worry about bi-wire just make sure you have contact with both sets of binding posts, i.e. a metal strip/bar between or a piece of wire, otherwsie you can bi-wire too.

    It sounds like you have done everything correct with the auto setup, its strange as the one on my 2500 is pretty much spot on. Make the changes that have been sugested and also remember that surround speakers are usualy for ambient effects, although when stuff is ment to be heard from there you will hear it (i.e. music or voice in the background and especialy the plane going over head and stuff) so set the volume of the rears to slightly less than you think and test to your enjoyment.
     
  12. Ekko Star

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    Spot on :smashin: Let the amp do the work and sort out which frequencies go where. Small is not a reference to literal physical speaker size, it actually indicates to the amp where to direct frequencies.

    Your mic and auto set up should have done an accurate set up, but still manual is no difficult task and you will get it right. Take your time, no need to bomb into it. Once set up properly you can tweak further.

    If you're tired of your Kef's and fancy flogging them let us know, I've been on the lookout for a reasonable priced set ! ;)
     
  13. game over

    game over
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    Thanks guy's i'll have a tweek tonight..

    Ekko Star that is one heck of a DVD collection ....
     
  14. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
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    and that's only about half of it..... :)
     
  15. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Just worked out it would take you 1.7041666666666666666666666666667 months to watch them all non stop with an average time of 1.5 hours :eek: or neirly 3 years at one a day, how many do you have in celifance that you haven't watched?
     
  16. Ekko Star

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    LOL Some still in their wrappers especially the box sets. Have watched most though I reckon. Still it's not the complete list as I have reached the limit on that website, I reckon I got another 700 or so missing off it.

    I don't drink or smoke so buying a DVD a week doesn't really bother me :)
     
  17. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    I have a few in celifane still about 10, so i need to get arround to watching them before i buy anymore, the strange thing is i don't like watching a movie more than once. But i couldn't rent as i feel i'm being ripped off, although i do like to come back to some old favs so its not a total waste, plus its nice to have a selection when friends come round. I think i have about a 100 at most though, but there are alot of films that i want on dvd that you can't even get on vhs over here, stuff thats been on ch 4 or bbc 2 late night movie.
     
  18. Arif

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    Dude – well that was more for dramatic effect, really!! Just to emphasise how physically small speakers would normally not be associated with doing a good job of 80 Hertz and below – hence the SVS 25-31 PC+!! :smashin:

    The whole system melds together beautifully – and so as such – the KEF satellites are the dog’s. Plus they’re extremely unobtrusive.

    But I would recommend them, though – & they’re very happy with the 757’s 100 Watts.
     
  19. game over

    game over
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    I did read a post somewhere that reckoned putting all speakers a small no matter how good they are ... what are people's thoughts?
     
  20. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    In a system an audiophile wouldn't use a dvd player no matter how good the video is to play there cd's (if we exclude all the arguments just for clarity stakes) they would have a dedicated cd player as thats what its designed for, and all things being right it should produce a performance better than the dvd player for sonics only.

    If we apply a similar philosophy to speakers, a subwoofer is used to produce sound at certain frequencies only, adding otherspeakers to the mix that would produce inferior sound would only 'muddy the waters'. From an audiophiles point of view you should use the best component at the best (and designated) place in a system.

    The best thing to do in the real world though is to test and play to get the best you can. If you can hear no differnce between the fronts being small or large with the sub in action, set it to small and save yourself a bit on electric (possibly).
     
  21. Tejstar

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    game over – I have the Yamaha 750SE (the 757's predecessor) and use it to drive Kef Q4's and a Q9c. Before the Q9c however, I used to have the Q6c. After spending a long time fiddling around with settings to find out what was best for my room, I discovered that the Q6c was just too weak for me. Dialogue was very weak (even if adjusting the centre db level). So don't get disheartened if you have the same results. Once I'd changed to the Q9c as my centre everything finally gelled and sounded exactly as I'd hope it would. :)
     
  22. Tejstar

    Tejstar
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    Just to let you know, I have all of my speakers set to Small and my sub crossover is set at 80Hz. The sub does a much better job of bass than the Q4's!
     
  23. game over

    game over
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    Thanks Tejestar just out of curiosity did you have the bungs in or out?
     
  24. Freelancer

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    just two questions:

    1. What is bi-wiring?
    2. What is crossover?
     
  25. Tejstar

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    I keep the bungs out, it's not as if the Kef's are well endowed in the bass dept! :D
     
  26. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    If you have two pair binding posts on the back of the speakers you can use two runs of a cable from the amp to the speakers, this is called Bi wireing, may give better sound because the overall thickness of the cable is increased, and some say that there is less distortion in each cable as there only carrying wither low or high freq. The problem is that the amp end is a single amp thus it sees the same thing coming back and sends the same frequencoes over both cables, you can try it but the difference is likely to be so small, if there is any that the ear can't detect it.
    An extra run of cables doesn't cost that much so you could always give it a go.

    Cross over is the selector of which sounds go where, so the tweeter doesn't get bass and the bass doesn't get high freq. It is essentialy a wave spliter, ignoring the frequecies it does want for its drive unit. Speakers include a passive crossover, which won't let 'incorrect' frequenices to pass through.
     
  27. Freelancer

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    Thanks Gaz.

    Just one more question about the actual Yammy itself, does it upscale composite and S video to HD? Or is it component only that can be upscaled to HD?
     
  28. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    I'm not entirely sure about this, but i would hope it will upscale everything to HD, guess its a wait and see but composite would probably look horrible at HD res no matter what you do to it., thats the only problem with fixed pixel/res displays (i.e. anythign thats not a crt) I would think that it will upscale hdmi too, and with it having a video processor onboard we might finaly have an amp that has the osd via component :O . If the yammy can do all the it promisses with some decent marketing it should clean up for its price range (so much so i'm tempted to uprgade from a 2500 and i don't even have a digital display)
     
  29. Freelancer

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    I tried to read the spec for the yamaha but all could gather was that it only upscales component to HD. It can upscale s-video and composite to component though. however, don't take what i say as gospel, i don't own the amp and might have misinterpreted the info.
     
  30. shane515

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    Sorry for hi-jack ;)

    Tejstar

    Having the same amp as yourself, a question if I may, do you have the Yamaha set at 80Hz aswell as your sub?.....This thread has me playing...all over again ;)

    thanks for any reply
    Shane
     

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