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Yamaha Dsp-ax620 Grey Imports.

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by seq2, Jan 29, 2002.

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  1. seq2

    seq2
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    If you buy a YAMAHA DSP-AX620 you should check that you are not buying a grey import.......my local dealer sold me one of these last week for £300 and at the time of purchase i asked if it was a uk model....their reply was yes its a uk model......much to my surprise when i got it home it had no uk plug on and had 2 swiched outlets (euro model).......it also had a sticker on the box put on by yamaha uk saying.........INSPECTED by yamaha uk.......so on friday i rang yamaha and told them about it not having a uk plug on but they couldnt understand why since it had been inspected.......THEY THEN WENT ON TO SAY THAT THEY DO IMPORT THIS AND MANY OTHER MODELS FROM EUROPE.........SO THERE YOU HAVE IT .........THE MANUFACTURERS ARE RIPPING US OFF...........The dealers are getting them in at a good cheap price and ripping us off..........i could have gone to Europe and got this model cheaper than buying it in the uk.......if i wanted a grey import............Yamaha then went on to say that its basically the same spec as a uk model........just cut the two pin plug off and refit a 3 pin plug............YEAH RIGHT.......Back it went to the shop for a full refund..........and the shop had the cheek to argue with me.....saying, theres nothing wrong with it etc etc........I just said the final words........If i wanted a grey import model,,,I`d have gone and got one............


    So now you know people.........check your uk moulded plug for a uk model...................if you know you are buying an import model then fair play.......but dont let the shops knowingly rip you off and blag you that you that they are selling you the genuine item......when it isnt.
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I don't suppose that this is limited to the Yamaha DSP-AX620 as there are probably many other dealers importing from Europe.

    A couple of dealers are selling an imported 620 in silver which is an option appreciated by many and not supported by official Yamaha imports.

    Does it really matter where the amp is sourced from as they are basically the same bar the plug and you still have all of your rights against the retailer if it develops a fault.

    As a matter of interest I drive a Lexus Soarer which is a grey import. The car is serviced and maintained by official dealers so where does the problem lie.
     
  3. conorahern

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    I have to agree, I bought the Yamaha RX-620RDS from a German web site, I saved 40% or £170 sterling on the list price here in Ireland. I checked out the spec against what I could buy locally and other than the power connections I could find no difference. I am very pleased with the amp since I got it.

    So its a gray import but what exactly is the difference, I still have a warrantee from Yamaha if anything goes wrong. The spec is exactly the same !!!

    Basically I was being charged £170 stg for a 3 pin plug. I can't understand your argument.
     
  4. gz5ztg

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    The difference is that sometimes manufacturers will use different components inside the machines. There is a risk that the grey imports do not use as expensive components and that the machines are not 'tuned'for the UK market.

    I can't really qualify this but it is what I have heard and read from many different sources concerning grey imports.
     
  5. Guest

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    It's like cars, i bought a new polo from Germany last year for my wife, i saved £3000. VW dealers in the uk said: "Oh there not the same spec, it's hard to get insurance". Bull; I bet it's the same with hifi, it's just another case of rip-off Britain.
     
  6. infomatique

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    I live in Dublin, Ireland and I have never understood the "Grey Import" argument. We in Ireland and those of you living in the UK (which is also part of Europe unless Tony has made a secret agreement with Bush) are part of a single trading block so how can one claim that something distributed from any point within the EU to any other point is a "Grey Import" .... in fact can it even be considered to be an import.

    Also does anyone here really believe that people in Holland or Germany (or even Ireland) receive equipment constructed from inferior components.

    Safety and other regulations are very similar throughout the EU and the configuration of a mains plug does little to change that ... so basically people in the UK pay a lot more for an extra pin on their plug and we in Ireland pay even more (I don't know why).
     
  7. mandlebrot

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    I have to agree that grey import doesn't mean inferior product, most countries have very high safety standards and the people of those countries would not put up with inferior products, if this was true then they would be importing from the UK to get the highest standard product they could and clearly this is not the case has it is us whom do the importing not them. In PC kit for e.g. Germany has higher safety/quality standards than we do,
    I often buy monitors that conform to the German standard because it’s better than the UK standard and this is just one example. The dealers in the UK want us to believe that the so called grey imports are inferior so has to justify the higher UK price and that's all there is to it.
     
  8. seq2

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    re......

    I have to agree, I bought the Yamaha RX-620RDS from a German web site, I saved 40% or £170 sterling on the list price here in Ireland. ..........

    .................................................................................
    This is one of my points...........£170 from germany.............i could have got one from germany for that price....maybe..............

    the dealers are buying them in dirt cheap and ripping us off by charging us full price...............


    I have since bought another dsp-ax620 uk model for £300 and there are slight differences in components used........uk model uses Elna capacitors for the main input.

    euro model uses...........audio grade..(as badged ) on the capacitors.........power supply is slightly different due to twin switched outlets..
     
  9. mjn

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    well for a start...banana plugs are not allowed in mainland europe, due to the fact that the connections fit nicely into their mains sockets, imagine somebody putting in excess of 200 volts though your nice B & W's or KEF's...!!

    Not all countries have the same mains voltage and hence need slightly different components.

    Ireland is 220 volts, whereas UK is 230 volts......these voltage differences have a slight effect on the components.

    Plus a lot of CD players and amps, are "tuned" for the UK, market, usually not as "bright" sounding as the normal spec.
     
  10. conorahern

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    Seq2,

    You misunderstood me, I saved £170stg, the amp cost me about £270stg, price in Ireland is £442stg.

    What is the difference between the two types of capacitors you mentioned, is it because 220V vs 230V. If it is, then it is rubbish. Yamaha probably have a number of suppliers for the components they use, have you got specs for the caps to show that they are different. If they are different its probably because there is two switchable power outputs instead of one.

    Have you not made your warrantee invalid by taking you amp apart !!!!!!

    As far as the amp is concerned, mains voltage in Ireland is the same as mains voltage in England and the rest of Europe. If you look at the back of any electrical device most will say 220V-240V, (I will check the Yamaha amp when I get home) the machine is spec'ed to work with anything from 220V to 240V. Your argument about mains voltages does not hold water. Electrically a capacitor will work the same with 220V as 230V as far as the amp is concerned, it is all converted to DC within the amp anyway.

    Regarding the banana plug/euro mains plug, anyone stupid enough to plug mains in to a speaker output deserves to have it blow up. It is not relevant in Ireland and the UK, our power plugs will not fit.

    "Tuned" for the UK market, does that mean they are better or worse, what is the point in manufactures doing this unnecessary work.

    Basically we are being ripped of in Ireland and the UK, more so in Ireland. I am still not convinced I have bought an inferior product.

    PS : If my grey import amp burns the house down tomorrow I will retract all of the above, but its not going to happen.
     
  11. mjn

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    Capacitors can hold a huge amount of electricity, And they take time to charge. If you have a smaller supply going in, then it going to take longer to charge up.

    Banana plugs.....ever heard of kids, they are curious ?? Guess not!

    anyway you still got it wrong....banana plug fit directly into europe mains sockets...ie you can wire your speaker or your amp directly to mains supply.......and of course its not relavent in the UK and ireland....but IT IS in Europe, which is where you sourced your amp.

    "tuned"...well only preference can tell you this.....

    plus i like to demo equipment before i buy....i'm not too bothered about about saving a few quid on something, if it turns out its crap, after i imported from Germany.

    although prices are higher in Ireland, you seem to forget one thing...there is only around 3.5 million people in Ireland...and out of those people how many do you think have Home cinema as a hobby? Its all about demand for a product.

    Where in the UK; there is nearly 60 million people...make your own conclusions.

    at the end of the day...all you have to do is look for the bargains, and you will find them in the UK and even Ireland!!
     
  12. infomatique

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    Forgetting Clooney Audio where can you get proper demos in Ireland. Over the last few months I purchased the following equipment:
    Philips DVDR1000
    Philips D-VHS VCR
    Philips Monroe Projector
    Mirage Speakers

    I could not get anyone in Dublin to give me a demo of the DVDR1000. The Philips Shop could not demonstrate the unit because someone had stolen the +RW disk.
    In the case of the D-VHS I originally tried to purchase the JVC version (as they are the manufacturer) but every dealer in Dublin told me that it was a special order and would only source it if agreed to purchase it. Also I was Quoted Euro 25 for the blank tapes

    I also wanted to purchase a Sony Projector. None of the Sony Centres were in a position to offer a demonstration. I then decided to try the Philips Monroe instead ... the Philips outlet provided a demo under very poor conditions. I was quoted Euro 5000 for the Philips Monroe but I was able to purchase this for less than Euro 3000 in Germany and according to a source in Philips there is no difference between the unit on sale in Germany and the unit available in Ireland ... I would not describe the difference as a few quid.

    Your argument regarding difference in population is not really valid and does not explain why prices are higher in Ireland. As far as most Japanese companies are concerned Ireland is in fact part of the UK market and most goods are distributed to us from the UK. Northern Ireland has a smaller population than the Republic but audio equipment is not more expensive there even though they have similar additional transport costs.
     
  13. mjn

    mjn
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    i've tried to get demo's in Ireland.....its near enough impossible...

    The population has got a huge factor on the price/availability of things!!

    There just isn't a demand for home cinema in this country, how many DVD+RW drives do you reckon are sold in Ireland each year?? I bet its less than 50! Resellers won't get expensive items in, in case they can't sell them on.

    I wanted a REL Q400 demo before purchasing, but i had to argee to buying it first, before i could get a demo!!

    Goto any decent hi-fi/home cinema in UK, that stock REL, and you'd have a demo in no time.

    Northern Ireland is different as all tax rates and business rates etc, are the same as UK, and its not classed as importing.

    Whereas Ireland is a separate country, and thus has different tax laws etc. business laws, etc are different.
     
  14. conorahern

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    mjn,
    "Capacitors can hold a huge amount of electricity, And they take time to charge. If you have a smaller supply going in, then it going to take longer to charge up. "

    ..... so it will take an extra 10 milli-seconds for my amp to power up, once they are charged they are charged, AC is converted to DC which is used to supply power to everything in the amp. Get an AC voltmeter, check your AC power at the wall socket, check it again tomorrow, guarantee it will have changed, it also varies depending on the load, if it is morning, evening, etc., the AC to DC converter in the amp can cope with all this. This is a red herring, electrical equipment is spec'ed to work between 220V and 240V.

    As you said yourself the banana plug argument is only relevant on the continent, there no danger in Ireland to me, my kids, dog, cat or goldfish.

    What does "tuned" actually mean, can anyone tell me. I have checked the spec of the amp I bought in Germany against the spec of the amp available locally and there is no difference. Are we being told the equipment is "tuned" to discourage us from purchasing the same product cheaper on the continent, when there is no actual difference.

    The population statistics are probably one of the main reasons why equipment is more expensive in Ireland but I don't care, there is no where in Ireland where I can get the amp I got at the price I got it. I will gladly pay extra for a quality product but these are the same product with a different power plug. £170stg for a 3 pin plug is a rip off, end of story.

    I'M STILL NOT CONVINCED.
     
  15. infomatique

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    You would be surprised, there is a lot of expensive items being sold in Ireland.

    Every item (except the JVC) was available in Ireland and on display. The Sony Projector was in Display in a glass case in Peats but they were unwilling to demo it. The DVDR1000 was on Display in Arnotts, Richer Sounds and the Philips Shop but I could not get a demo ... Arnotts could not connect it, the Philips Shop han no discs and Richer Sounds were unwilling. The D-VHS was on static display in the Philips shop.

    The Monroe was operational in the Philips Shop but the conditions were far from ideal and salesman knew nothing about it and basically told me a pack of lies incuding telling me that it used a much better technology than LCD and then he told me that he would be unwilling to source spare bulbs.
     
  16. mjn

    mjn
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    er...as far as i was aware....capacitors do not stay charged when being used.....they are continually being discharged, and charged....plus the capacitors are used for many different things inside the amp....many (depending on design) will be used as part of "smoothers" and "regulators" for the amp's PSU.

    At the end of the day...although you saved £170 on the UK price; how much was shipping?; what if you got caught at customs?; what if it was damaged in transit?
     
  17. infomatique

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    I do accept that some people may be concerned about buying abroad but you are missing the point ... the EU is a common trading area and you do not deal with customs if you purchase in Germany, Holland, The UK, etc why would you?

    If you buy in Germany you are charged 16% VAT the same as everyone living in Germany and if you buy in the UK you pay 17.5%. In theory (except for fiscal goods such as petrol, booze, etc.) prices should be uniform throughout the region (except for minor differences in VAT ... a bit like local taxes in the US) this is also one of the reasons why we in Ireland joined the Euro. The argument that Ireland has a small population should be irrelevant because prices should be determined by the size of the total trading block ... the only thing accounting for the very large differences in retail prices is local vested interests.

    Typically (taking ComputerUniverse.de) as an example the carriage will be about Euro 30 for a single item such as an amplifier. The courier is responsible for any obvious damage in transit.
     
  18. conorahern

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    informatique is correct,

    £30stg shipping, still saved £170stg, I was quoting the full price including shipping. For the record, total price including shipping was £270stg (+ 75p for a 3 pin plug), price in Ireland is £442stg.

    goods can not be stopped in customs

    goods are insured by courier, I was told by the company I bought from to check for damage before signed for it.

    I also bought a DVD player in Germany, speakers from the UK and speaker cable from the UK, no problems with customs, damaged goods or service, and I saved a small fortune.

    Regarding the caps, you are correct, depending on use they charge up, discharge etc., some stay constantly charged, especially those in the power circuitry which is where I though the differences were, but to be honest as I said before it doesn't matter, the machine are spec'ed to work on our mains voltage.
     
  19. seq2

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    Elna make the very best capacitors...........the best for smoothing power supplys.........for a much cleaner sound.

    A 16.000ufs capacitor by Elna will cost you about £22 as a spare part,
    A 16.000ufs capacitor by unknown brand will cost 20 pence.......hence crap unreliable power supply..........not very clean power supply.

    caps can be placed in the power supply, pre amp stage, output stages etc.

    the uk dsp-ax620 uses Elna caps as first input stage,

    the euro uses ---audio grade--- capacitors........no name on them.

    but that doesnt mean that they are crap capacitors (the audio ones above)............they are just different to the uk product.

    example
    philips use nichicon caps in their cdr recorders....marantz (sister company until 8mth ago)......will use Elna caps..........the winner was the marantz dr700 ---compared to the philips cdr 870......sound quality was slightly better on the marantz.........


    it doesnt matter if its 220v or 250v........the transformer can take a tolerance by allowing 5% or 10% +/- depending on the input voltage.

    on the euro and the uk model the spkr binding posts have got plastic protecters on to stop the euros plugging bananas in......these can be taken off easily to plug bananas in........they are two pieces of plastic made to look like one piece.
     
  20. Guest

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    While were having this very interesting debate. We've forgotten one crucial question... Could Chuck Norris have taken Bruce Lee?
     
  21. Guest

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    roflol. bloody funny coment
     
  22. Guest

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    Have you still not blown your £3000 liverpool?
     
  23. Guest

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    nahh i am still waiting for more suggestions
     
  24. conorahern

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    Checked the manual for my Yamaha RX620 last night, the very first page has a note for people living in the UK, it says if the amp has a two pin plug, remove it, put on a 3 pin plug and destory the 2 pin plug.

    The spec also mentions that the european model has 2 switchable outputs and the UK model has one.

    Therefore I think we can conclude that the european model and UK model are the same except for the power in and out.

    Bruce Lee, no problem.
     
  25. Guest

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    Chuck Norris, world middle weight champ. Bruce lee, actor
     
  26. seq2

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    The Yamaha RX-620RDS is different to the amp anyway......ive only just realised that you have been on about the Yamaha RX-620RDS......

    the tuner will spoil the sound ......all running off one power supply.

    You can buy a manual for the dsp-ax620 from s.e.m.e. uk, and you will see the difference in components used.
     
  27. DaleL

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    I`ve recently taken delivery of an AX620 silver finish.The power lead had already got a 3 pin plug on it although it does look like some kind of "adaptor" plug.I realise its an import due to it being a silver model,but thats the colour I wanted & I wanted to stick with Yam`as I`d been happy with my previous amp of theirs.
    Its got the same warranty as my old amp had so I cant see any problems.
    Got it from www.leconcepts.com £289.99+£10 ship:D
     

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