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Yamaha Bass Management - Faulty Amp?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by darren204, May 19, 2003.

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  1. darren204

    darren204
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    Hi Chaps,

    I have a Yamaha DSP-A5 and have been wrestling with bass issues for some time.

    After trying all sorts of different settings and tricks off of this forum I have come to the conclusion that the bass management in my Yamaha amp is not behaving as it should.

    If I have all speakers set to small and bass to Sub via line level I can get a pretty decent bass response.

    When I switch from 5.1 to stereo there is WAY TOO MUCH bass going to the sub.

    If I switch to Pro-Logic there isn't enough bass going to the sub.

    This all adds up to me riding the SW level every time I change listening mode. - Annoying and easy to forget to change it back.

    I have done some careful listening and this is what I have found:

    If I change my ANY speaker from small to large the output to the sub INCREASES.

    If I change it back the level sent to the sub decreases.

    This is contrary to what I would have expected bass mangement to do.

    I had hoped to set my mains to large (using hi-level connection to sub for their lo bass) all others to small, LFE to sub.
    The problem with this is that any redirected bass (from center and surrounds) is increased in volume relative to the DD and DTS LFE level to the point where I can't get the dedicated LFE loud enough. This works OK for stereo and Pro Logic.

    It even sort of works for DD and DTS - except that the dedicated LFE cannot be brought up to the correct level.

    Has anyone encountered this problem with a Yamaha amp before...

    Is any of the above clear? Or am I doing something fundamentally wrong?
     
  2. MikeK

    MikeK
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    Have you connected both the high and low level inputs on the subwoofer? (and what model of subwoofer is it?)
     
  3. darren204

    darren204
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    I have currently got my sub (Rel q150) connected via both inputs. But, even if I do not have the High level input connected, when I change main speakers from small to large, bass output from the amp's SW jack increases as described above.

    Using both hi and lo level connections to the sub is the all-round compromise I can get. (Although I can't get the dedicated LFE level high enough in relation to the bass redirected from the rears and center).

    I am fairly convinced that this is not correct. I was just wondering if anybody has experienced this before...
     
  4. OldEngland

    OldEngland
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    Does the Yammy A5 have a setting to direct bass to Sub,Main or both. If its set to both, then changing a main (front left and right) speaker from small to large may increase the output as you are experiencing.
     
  5. darren204

    darren204
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    Matt,

    Thanks for your reply.

    The bass out is set to sw. (If I set it to both I get exactly the same effect - except with a little more bass from the main channels).

    What happens on your amp if you do the following:

    Set it to pro logic

    Set all speakers to small

    Bass out to SW

    Play a bassy cd (in pro logic mode)

    Change main speakers from small to large

    Does the bass to the sub increase or stay about the same?

    Thanks for your help

    Darren
     
  6. Crocodile JD

    Crocodile JD
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    Yam recommend setting amp to Both for music and SW for film but the later seems to thin the sound a bit. I find that setting speakers to small (Yam default is 90kHz cut off) and leaving amp on Both (for music and films) gives the best sound. Theoretically Small and Both is a contradiction especially when you've got fronts that roll off fairly early (80kHz in my case), but there you are. I never used Hi pass but isn't this also a contradiction?
    I set the crossover on the sub just above the 90kHz cut off.

    Have you set Dynamic range to off and have you increased LFE levels in menu?

    Also I do notice that you need far less sub volume on stereo. Isn't it just the difference in recording?

    Crocodile JD
     
  7. darren204

    darren204
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    Crocodile,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I have tried the "both" setting and didn't like it at all for movies or music.

    There is no dynamic range compression and the independent DD and DTS lfe levels are all the way up.

    -----

    I was really trying to ascertain why the (redirected) bass sent to the sub via the line level output goes UP in volume when I change main speakers to Large.

    This appears to be the reverse of what the bass management should be doing.

    I have further verified my earlier findings thus:

    I played an old mono recording through the amp set to pro-logic mode (ie. the sound is only coming from the centre speaker)

    While this is playing I changed the settings for the Main speakers from small to large. The bass from the sub then INCREASES in volume.

    This would indicate that something funny is happening with the redirected bass from the "small" channels when another channel is set to large.

    Can somebody with a different amp (Denon, Pioneer etc) confirm if the same thing happens on their kit, or whether it is a peculiarity of this Yamaha.

    Sorry to keep on about this but it is beginning to drive me mad!!
     
  8. Crocodile JD

    Crocodile JD
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    darren204

    I'm sure there is a dynamic range setting. There certainly is on mine, the RXV496RDS which is a slightly less powerful version of the 596 of which I believe the A5 is the non tuner version. They should be the same menu wise.

    Not sure on the bass levels, I'll try mine tonight if I get chance.


    Crocodile JD
     
  9. darren204

    darren204
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    Crocodile,

    Sorry, didn't make myself clear.

    When I said there is no dynamic range compression I meant that it is in its default (max) setting. ie. the signal is not compressed.

    grateful for the reply, though

    Thanks
     
  10. OldEngland

    OldEngland
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    Darren

    Had a quick play with my amp last night. Using Pro-logic,all speakers=small,bass to SW and there was no difference to bass levels when changing main speakers to large. This make sense because most sound comes form the centre speaker in pro-logic.

    Also tried the same thing with Effect Off. When main=large then no bass from subwoofer and when main=small then some bass from subwoofer. This is also what I would expect.

    If its any help, I usually end up increasing the subs volume for films and turning in down for stereo.
     
  11. Crocodile JD

    Crocodile JD
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    Are you sure that dynamic range setting Max doesn't mean that you've got Maximum compression. Should it be set to Min or Off . I'm sure I remember something about that. I didn't get chance to check things out last night, but it's worth a careful read of the manual.

    Crocodile JD
     
  12. darren204

    darren204
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    Matt,

    Thanks for your reply, it seems that your amp is behaving as I would expect mine to.

    It does seem increasingly likely that the bass management on my amp is a bit "screwy".

    I wonder if there's a way of "resetting" the amp without taking it in for repair....

    -----

    Crocodile,

    Thanks, but the dynamic range is set as it should be.

    I have verified this and all other settings on my amp.

    It is an issue of bass mis-management.

    Thanks for your input.
     
  13. zaphod

    zaphod
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    Sounds to me like the sub is connected to a main speaker pre out instead of a sub out. If the sub is connected properly then it may be wired incorrectly in the amp.

    Zaphod
     
  14. darren204

    darren204
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    Zaphod,

    The sub is correctly connected to the SW out terminal.

    Thanks for the idea, it's always worth a check.

    I've e-mailed Yamaha to see if there are any known issues with their bass management.

    It is a shame that this is not a piece of software; I'm sure I could have found a patch for it on the web by now!!!


    Darren
     

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