Promoted Yamaha’s Flagship AVENTAGE AV Receivers have been re-born under the concept of True Sound

Meridius

Well-known Member
All models below the A4 are limited to just 24Gbps.


The A4, A6 and the A8 are 40Gbps, but not the models that were launched last year.
Is that still not crippling future 8k ? As I thought you needed 48gbps for 8k 120
 

TechEnthu

Member
Is that still not crippling future 8k ? As I thought you needed 48gbps for 8k 120
No, as devices can use DSC to compress data. With 24 Gbps ports, device can compress signal up to 80 Gbps in ratio 3.75:1. This means images up to 8K/60 10-bit RGB.

The only caveat is that all devices in a pipeline must support DSC protocol, which is not the case with vast majority of current 4K TVs, rendering DSC feature over HDMI 2.1 practically useless for most owners of home theatre. The problem is that DSC is not widespread in consumer electronics.

Here is the bandwidth chart with different DSC ratios.
HDMI Bandwidth Chart DSC.jpg
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
This is disappointing for a new product. Hope Gene will publish the review of A6A soon. Manufacturer shouldn´t rush products to market, nothing good comes out of it. Now they have to change parts later.

 

Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
This is disappointing for a new product. Hope Gene will publish the review of A6A soon. Manufacturer shouldn´t rush products to market, nothing good comes out of it. Now they have to change parts later.

Jesus, what does this mean? I've literally just taken delivery, today, of an A4A so as to avoid having to swap the HDMI board on an A2A.

Unbelievable!

@Yamaha Home Audio UK can you please advise? If I have to return the A4A at some point for a hardware exchange, I'd rather send it back right now whilst I'm in my cooling of period.
 
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whitehart

Well-known Member
Jesus, what does this mean? I've literally just taken delivery, today, of an A4A so as to avoid having to swap the HDMI board on an A2A.

Unbelievable!

@Yamaha Home Audio UK can you please advise? If I have to return the A4A at some point for a hardware exchange, I'd rather send it back right now whilst I'm in my cooling of period.
A4A has HDMI 2.1 40Gbps. Most devices including modern LG TV's do HDMI 2.1 @ 40Gbps. I doubt you'll ever need to swap any board on the A4A unless it fails. 48Gbps isn't being used (only early LG HDMI 2.1 screens had that bandwidth) the standard is pretty much 40Gbps on most devices now, although the initial standard was for it to be higher. You'll want a new Xbox series X 2 before a new AVR IMO
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Please don't start bemoaning the fact that the higher tier Aventage models are limited to 40Gbps. Other manufacturers are doing likewise and you'll be lucky to get a display that exceeds this.

What the hell are you intending passing through the AV receiver that would require anything more than 40Gbps and which manufacturer wiould you have gone with to get 48Gbps?

I've an LG C9 with a 48Gbps chipset and it serves no purpose what so ever to have that additional bandwidth.
 
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Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
A4A has HDMI 2.1 40Gbps. Most devices including modern LG TV's do HDMI 2.1 @ 40Gbps. I doubt you'll ever need to swap any board on the A4A unless it fails. 48Gbps isn't being used (only early LG HDMI 2.1 screens had that bandwidth) the standard is pretty much 40Gbps on most devices now, although the initial standard was for it to be higher. You'll want a new Xbox series X 2 before a new AVR IMO
Unless I've misunderstood, the newly discovered issues aren't HDMI 2.1 related...

"The current AxA line have a serious YPAO bug that will not allow accurate calibrations if more than 3 measurement points are used (will results in speaker distance error that will cause serious comb filtering effect). Atmos + DD+ will results in erroneous object location when AI is used. And finally, the low SINAD on the Center, and surround channels is hardware related so it cannot be fixed by future FW updates. Yamaha engineers are aware of this and promise to replace some component in upcoming future revisions of these AVRs (mid 2022).

So the bottom line, you should avoid the new line of Yamaha AVRs until after the second half of 2022 (component shortages is the blame for the long delay)."
 

fallinlight

Distinguished Member
This is disappointing for a new product. Hope Gene will publish the review of A6A soon. Manufacturer shouldn´t rush products to market, nothing good comes out of it. Now they have to change parts later.


I agree, I really trusted Yamaha to go above and beyond the competition, after the last 2 years of botched AVR releases. It does not seem as bad as the recent Arcam's when they released, mind. Still, shocked when I jumped back on here the other day and saw the amount of issues/ complaints. It's very frustrating, and also for the dealers. I'm on the fence till Yamaha fix the sub and centre channel bugs. That said, I know that the majority are very much enjoying their new units overall.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I agree, I really trusted Yamaha to go above and beyond the competition, after the last 2 years of botched AVR releases. It does not seem as bad as the recent Arcam's when they released, mind. Still, shocked when I jumped back on here the other day and saw the amount of issues/ complaints. It's very frustrating, and also for the dealers. I'm on the fence till Yamaha fix the sub and centre channel bugs. That said, I know that the majority are very much enjoying their new units overall.

Shame indeed as the last model they put out was 2018 so they had all the time in hand and they do all the same measurements as Gene so they knew it, but maybe these companies think they won´t get caught or the big bosses put too much pressure for engineers and the features etc. goes ahead of everything, then we see some issues. The YPAO issues can be fixed by firmware update, but the latter just shouldn´t happen in new expensive product. No excuses!

If i sounded too negative here is the glowing subjective What Hifi review. :)

 

TechEnthu

Member
I've an LG C9 with a 48Gbps chipset and it serves no purpose what so ever to have that additional bandwidth.
Me too, as I have AMD GPU that outputs 40 Gbps to it.
Nvidia GPU holders are a bit luckier, as they can output 48 Gbps (FRL6 signal) to LC C9 and get minor improvement in some details in some scenes. It's nothing ground-breakingly better, of course, but it's possible to play with it and experiment.
 

TechEnthu

Member
"The current AxA line have a serious YPAO bug that will not allow accurate calibrations if more than 3 measurement points are used (will results in speaker distance error that will cause serious comb filtering effect). Atmos + DD+ will results in erroneous object location when AI is used. And finally, the low SINAD on the Center, and surround channels is hardware related so it cannot be fixed by future FW updates. Yamaha engineers are aware of this and promise to replace some component in upcoming future revisions of these AVRs (mid 2022).
When you actually read translated text with all configurations of testing, there seem to be serious issues with this A8A unit. There is a demo video too in the post 199, in addtion to originally posted in 195.
 

fallinlight

Distinguished Member
Shame indeed as the last model they put out was 2018 so they had all the time in hand and they do all the same measurements as Gene so they knew it, but maybe these companies think they won´t get caught or the big bosses put too much pressure for engineers and the features etc. goes ahead of everything, then we see some issues. The YPAO issues can be fixed by firmware update, but the latter just shouldn´t happen in new expensive product. No excuses!

If i sounded too negative here is the glowing subjective What Hifi review. :)


Not read the review yet, bud, thanks.

Yes, that all makes sense to me, especially as a person who is into video games and follows that industry. The same thing occurs in video games all the time, pressure, or 'crunch', and games released that are not finished/ buggy. Cyberpunk 2077 was the biggest example of this in recent time. Although - and not discussing the ethics of the situation - you also get the opposite outcome with some developers too, such as Naughty Dog's The last of Us Part II, they put their workers through major crunch, but the end result is near perfection every time. Though, at the same time, the video games industry has learned a lot from it's past mistakes and companies are very conscious now and tends to communicate to fans of development issues and delays openly, in order to improve and finish the game as they want to and properly. It garners a lot of respect and admiration from press and fans. Like yourself, I don't know the behind the scenes with how Yamaha operate/ operated for their new line of AVRs. But it would be nice for the big audio companies to follow suit of video game developers and keep their audience updated in their development cycle, and delay the product if they know it isn't ready or fit for purpose. I'd like to say that there is so much tech inside these machines these days, you simply can't bug test everything, and to every end user's setup, but really, surely they can do better?
 

TechEnthu

Member
I don't know the behind the scenes with how Yamaha operate/ operated for their new line of AVRs. But it would be nice for the big audio companies to follow suit of video game developers and keep their audience updated in their development cycle, and delay the product if they know it isn't ready or fit for purpose
Well, it took them one full year to admit publicly a simple spec that 2020 models have 24 Gbps ports, after sustained pressure from AV community.

If they are not confident enough to come out clear and loud on such simple piece of information in this day and age, then of course there is suspicion that there are other ghosts in bag.
 

whitehart

Well-known Member
Review here Yamaha Aventage RX-A6A A/V Receiver Review


"
Conclusion
I could write a great deal more about this richly featured receiver, but a quick summary will have to do. The RX-A6A's audio quality proved beyond reproach, and it has ample power for most any system and user scenario I can imagine. On the ergonomics side, the Yama- ha's thoughtful Scene memories, tremendous customization options (including video processing ones, which I haven't even mentioned),
and useful listening modes make it nearly ideal if what you want a system you can set up once and then forget. Add in 11.2-channel processing and extensive streaming and connectivity options, including those forthcoming HDMI 2.1 features, and the RX-A6A registers as a high-performance AVR that's as future-ready as you could want."
 

whitehart

Well-known Member
the low SINAD on the Center, and surround channels is hardware related so it cannot be fixed by future FW updates. Yamaha engineers are aware of this and promise to replace some component in upcoming future revisions of these AVRs (mid 2022).
hmmm this is just a rumour and from 1 source, no other review has said this - unless Yamaha actually offically say this I call it out as untrue

from a "yamaha insider" erm yeah

Here are some updates right from a Yamaha insider.

The current AxA line have a serious YPAO bug that will not allow accurate calibrations if more than 3 measurement points are used (will results in speaker distance error that will cause serious comb filtering effect). Atmos + DD+ will results in erroneous object location when AI is used. And finally, the low SINAD on the Center, and surround channels is hardware related so it cannot be fixed by future FW updates. Yamaha engineers are aware of this and promise to replace some component in upcoming future revisions of these AVRs (mid 2022).

So the bottom line, you should avoid the new line of Yamaha AVRs until after the second half of 2022 (component shortages is the blame for the long delay).

here is another source that confirmed all of the above (use Google translate):

YAMAHA - A8A התרשמות ראשונה . - מגזין HT

YAMAHA - A8A התרשמות ראשונה . | אודיו בקולנוע-ביתי ופורמטים רב-ערוציים - רסיברים, מגברי כח-רב ערוציים, פרוססורי-אודיו וכו'
htmag.co.il
I personally spoke with the manager of the official local Yamaha dealer, and he has also confirmed all of the above.

So A6A, if finally off my list for good. I'll wait for either Onkyo RZ70 (coming in April 2022) or Denon X6800H (mid 2022).
Audiophile Conspiracy Theories! I am trusting in my ears! My RX-A6A sounds pretty good! Comments from those who have had D&M in the past 11 years.;)

I agree with the last 2 lines
 

Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
hmmm this is just a rumour and from 1 source, no other review has said this - unless Yamaha actually offically say this I call it out as untrue

from a "yamaha insider" erm yeah
Well, it's stopped me in my tracks, setting my A4A up.

I guess I'll have to continue and see for myself if the software issues mentioned are present.

I would still appreciate a comment from @Yamaha Home Audio UK please.
 

TechEnthu

Member
hmmm this is just a rumour and from 1 source, no other review has said this - unless Yamaha actually offically say this I call it out as untrue
It's not rumour, as Gene from Audioholics has found similar SINAD. Yamaha told him that hardware change is needed to rectify it, perhaps in new batch of machines in H2 2022. He will publish his review of current A6A unit in near future.
 

whitehart

Well-known Member
It's not rumour, as Gene from Audioholics has found similar SINAD. Yamaha told him that hardware change is needed to rectify it, perhaps in new batch of machines in H2 2022. He will publish his review of current A6A unit in near future.
1 source ie the same source
 

TechEnthu

Member
1 source ie the same source
Man, it's not one source. Gene communicated several initial findings over at Audioholics forum one month before this new source emerged. He sent his findings to Yamaha to confirm and held back the publication until they reply with actions they could take. There are more developments in the background than you can find in one thread.
 

whitehart

Well-known Member
Man, it's not one source. Gene communicated several initial findings over at Audioholics forum one month before this new source emerged. He sent his findings to Yamaha to confirm and held back the publication until they reply with actions they could take. There are more developments in the background than you can find in one thread.
until Yamaha officially say anything, i would take this with a large pinch of salt
 

TechEnthu

Member
until Yamaha officially say anything, i would take this with a large pinch of salt
Many times, vendors will not say anything until pushed hard by tech community that test their gear. It took them one year to admit officially that 2020 models have 24 Gbps ports. "A large pinch of salt" is reserved for both sides.
 

Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
Man, it's not one source. Gene communicated several initial findings over at Audioholics forum one month before this new source emerged. He sent his findings to Yamaha to confirm and held back the publication until they reply with actions they could take. There are more developments in the background than you can find in one thread.

Gene actually mentions the fact, as a result of his on-going review of the A6A, he is in direct contact with Yamaha with a view to resolving things that he's found. Please refer to 1:15
 

whitehart

Well-known Member
Gene actually mentions the fact, as a result of his on-going review of the A6A, he is in direct contact with Yamaha with a view to resolving things that he's found. Please refer to 1:15
which is all well and good but as far as im concerned my a6a sounds fine with my reference KEF's
 

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