Promoted Yamaha’s Flagship AVENTAGE AV Receivers have been re-born under the concept of True Sound

dante01

Distinguished Member
If your look at and read the first post of this very thread then the difference between the top 3 Aventage models are actually illustrated and explained.
 

xSLYx

Active Member
If anyone else is interested, there's the avsforums thread as well for the new models.
 

RobertQ

Standard Member
Not really, the basic set up was really easy - no surprises, etc.
I haven't got time yet to spend quality time with it, but the first impression is very good.

One unexpected behaviour is that I have blue ray player and apple tv connected directly to TV and then the a6a is connected over hdmi/eARC - it works so far very well, but each time it gets new audio signal (skipping to next chapter on blueray or new song on ATV/Music, etc. ) the first 2s-6s there is no sound. IF I switch audio to tv speakers it doesn't happen - it only happens with hdmi/eARC + a6a. Not sure if the issue is with the tv/earc or the a6a. I submitted a case with yamaha support earlier today.
I’ve just noticed that I can make the issue go away if on the Sony TV I set the eARC mode to off (instead of auto). According to the MusicCast application this results in Dolby Atmos/Dolby Digital Plus stream being send (for a track in Dolby Atmos). While if I set the eARC mode to Auto then it reports Dolby Atmos/PCM. I understand this is loseless but this introduces the 2s-6s delays when switching tracks, etc.

Not sure if the issue is with the TV/eARC or the A6A/eARC.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I’ve just noticed that I can make the issue go away if on the Sony TV I set the eARC mode to off (instead of auto). According to the MusicCast application this results in Dolby Atmos/Dolby Digital Plus stream being send (for a track in Dolby Atmos). While if I set the eARC mode to Auto then it reports Dolby Atmos/PCM. I understand this is loseless but this introduces the 2s-6s delays when switching tracks, etc.

Not sure if the issue is with the TV/eARC or the A6A/eARC.


eARC isn't required to convey DD+ even if inclusive of Atmos metadata. You can access DD+ inclusive of Atmos usiung just conventional ARC.

What you'd lose is the ability to pass HD formatted audio such as TrueHD through the TV or multichannel PCM.

Conventional ARC is limited to SD 5.1 formats, DD+ with or without Atmos metadata or just 2 channels of PCM.

Dolby Atmos would only ever be sent in conjunction with multichannel PCM if using an external device connected to one of the TV's HDMI inputs that relies upon Dolby MAT for output of Atmos. Such devices would be an XBOx, Windows PCs or the Apple TV 4K. If connecting any of these directly to the TV then you'd need eARC in order to passthrough Atmos in conjunction with multichannel PCM using Dolby MAT.
 
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RobertQ

Standard Member
eARC isn't required to convey DD+ even if inclusive of Atmos metadata. You can access DD+ inclusive of Atmos usiung just conventional ARC.

What you'd lose is the ability to pass HD formatted audio such as TrueHD through the TV or multichannel PCM.

Conventional ARC is limited to SD 5.1 formats, DD+ with or without Atmos metadata or just 2 channels of PCM.

Dolby Atmos would only ever be sent in conjunction with multichannel PCM if using an external device connected to one of the TV's HDMI inputs that relies upon Dolby MAT for output of Atmos. Such devices would be an XBOx, Windows PCs or the Apple TV 4K. If connecting any of these directly to the TV then you'd need eARC in order to passthrough Atmos in conjunction with multichannel PCM using Dolby MAT.

Yes, I know and you are correct.
This is exactly the setup I have: Latest AppleTV 4k connected to TV via HDMI (also 4k BluRay connected to the TV). Then TV connected via HDMI/eARC to A6A.

If I disable eARC but leave ARC then A6A reports Dolby Atmos/DD+ for relevant content ftom ATV. If I enable eARC then it reports Dolby Atmos/PCM from ATV - however then when skipping songs across DA/PCM there is this 2s-6s silence at the beginning while ATV is already playing it. It seems like it is re-establishing some connection via eARC or something like this. Interestingly if it gets to an end of a song and then starts playig the next one, there is no issue. But if between the two songs I switched it in a middle of one to the other then I hit the issue. Again only with eARC + Atmos/PCM, otherwise it all works fine.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Why connect the ATV and the UHD disc player directly to the TV? There's no real reason to do this and you could simply connect them directly to the AVR.

Connect the ATV and your UHD disc player directly to the AV receiver as opposed to passing their associated audio through the TV and out via eARC.
 
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whitehart

Well-known Member
Not really, the basic set up was really easy - no surprises, etc.
I haven't got time yet to spend quality time with it, but the first impression is very good.

One unexpected behaviour is that I have blue ray player and apple tv connected directly to TV and then the a6a is connected over hdmi/eARC - it works so far very well, but each time it gets new audio signal (skipping to next chapter on blueray or new song on ATV/Music, etc. ) the first 2s-6s there is no sound. IF I switch audio to tv speakers it doesn't happen - it only happens with hdmi/eARC + a6a. Not sure if the issue is with the tv/earc or the a6a. I submitted a case with yamaha support earlier today.
thanks I will test this over the weekend so if i have simliar
 

RobertQ

Standard Member
Why connect the ATV and the UHD disc player directly to the TV? There's no real reason to do this and you could simply connect them directly to the AVR.

Connect the ATV and your UHD disc player directly to the AV receiver as opposed to passing their associated audio through the TV and out via eARC.

I know I could and I will try it.
HDMI/eARC is a little bit more convinient though as I can still use the devices without using AVR if for some reason I would want to. Also currently by talking to homepod/siri I can turn off or on the TV (it does talk to ATV which then "talks" to the TV) - not sure if it will still work if I connect it to the AVR directly - I will have to test it.

I haven't really made my mind yet which way I prefer it nor I had time to test connecting it directly yet.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I know I could and I will try it.
HDMI/eARC is a little bit more convinient though as I can still use the devices without using AVR if for some reason I would want to. Also currently by talking to homepod/siri I can turn off or on the TV (it does talk to ATV which then "talks" to the TV) - not sure if it will still work if I connect it to the AVR directly - I will have to test it.

I haven't really made my mind yet which way I prefer it nor I had time to test connecting it directly yet.


Just ensure the HDMI passthrough in standby feature (HDMI STANDBY THROUGH) is engaged on the AV receiver and you'd then still be able to utilise those devices connected to it via HDMI while the AV receiver is in standby.
 

RobertQ

Standard Member
Just ensure the HDMI passthrough in standby feature (HDMI STANDBY THROUGH) is engaged on the AV receiver and you'd then still be able to utilise those devices connected to it via HDMI while the AV receiver is in standby.
I didn't know that - thank you!
 

RobertQ

Standard Member
I know I could and I will try it.
HDMI/eARC is a little bit more convinient though as I can still use the devices without using AVR if for some reason I would want to. Also currently by talking to homepod/siri I can turn off or on the TV (it does talk to ATV which then "talks" to the TV) - not sure if it will still work if I connect it to the AVR directly - I will have to test it.

I haven't really made my mind yet which way I prefer it nor I had time to test connecting it directly yet.

I’ve just reconnected AppleTV so now it is connected directly to A6A HDMI 1. The issue is still there fir Dolby Atmos/PCM.

I’ve noticed though that the amount of delay/silence depends on a program in use when switching from PCM to Dolby Atmos/PCM. In STRAIGHT program it is about 2s (still noticeable). In SURROUND DECODE Auto it is about 6s. While in SURROUND: AI it is about 2s. The Hall in Munich is 2s as well.

So even when connected directly to A6A the issue is still there with Dolby Atmos/PCM. The 2s is still annoying as beginnings of songs are missing. If I go back to the beginning of a song while it was playing then there is no delay at all.
 

Meridius

Well-known Member
Just ensure the HDMI passthrough in standby feature (HDMI STANDBY THROUGH) is engaged on the AV receiver and you'd then still be able to utilise those devices connected to it via HDMI while the AV receiver is in standby.
Can you still change the inputs for the sound when it’s in standby ? My rx-3900 would only do this on the last input selected. I would love to be able to change the inputs when the amp is in standby so you can select different devices to pass the audio through. Can this be done on the a6a and a8a. Thanks.
 

alibulloch

Novice Member
Also note that only 3 of the inputs on the V6 and the A2 will be 4K 120Hz enabled and they will also be capped at 24Gbps. The A4 and the 2 models above it all include 7 inputs that will be 4K 120Hz compliant and they'll all handle 40Gbps.
Can anyone confirm this yet? Or is everyone still waiting for the firmware upgrade?

I'm looking to upgrade an aging Onkyo 626 and have been waiting for proper HDMI2.1 support for over a year. Reading lots of conflicting reports on whether the A4A will be able to handle 40Gbps uncompressed 4k120, on all ports. Yamaha's comms have suggested it will, but after it came to light that the A2A is only 24gbps and not on all ports i'm cautious - and that was only after a hardware mod.
 

whitehart

Well-known Member
Not really, the basic set up was really easy - no surprises, etc.
I haven't got time yet to spend quality time with it, but the first impression is very good.

One unexpected behaviour is that I have blue ray player and apple tv connected directly to TV and then the a6a is connected over hdmi/eARC - it works so far very well, but each time it gets new audio signal (skipping to next chapter on blueray or new song on ATV/Music, etc. ) the first 2s-6s there is no sound. IF I switch audio to tv speakers it doesn't happen - it only happens with hdmi/eARC + a6a. Not sure if the issue is with the tv/earc or the a6a. I submitted a case with yamaha support earlier today.
tried to test this setup however eARC to TV isnt a function i have yet on my TV (Q950R) eARC firmware comes out this month (at last) lol
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Can anyone confirm this yet? Or is everyone still waiting for the firmware upgrade?

I'm looking to upgrade an aging Onkyo 626 and have been waiting for proper HDMI2.1 support for over a year. Reading lots of conflicting reports on whether the A4A will be able to handle 40Gbps uncompressed 4k120, on all ports. Yamaha's comms have suggested it will, but after it came to light that the A2A is only 24gbps and not on all ports i'm cautious - and that was only after a hardware mod.


It is what Yamaha themselves have said. All the models above the A2 will have inputs that are all 4L10G while the 4 inputs on the V4 and the 3 inputs on the V6 and A2 are capped at 24Gbps.

The HDMI board replacement doesn't effect the A4, the A6 or the A8 and they use an entirely different HDMI chipset than that used on the models from last year that are below them.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
The Surround: AI mode on the A4A receivers+ sounds interesting, anyone else demoed it? Sounds worth the $$$ difference over the A2A alone.



The Ai mode is nothing new and was included onboard previous Yamaha models. I'd tend to suggest turning it off and this is in fact exactlyt what I do with my current A1080..




I'd also suggest that you'll never really want to apply the DSP modes to discrete multichannel sources and are far more likely to portray such sources as they were intended to be heard. I on;y ever apply DSP to TV content.

I'd say Ai is interesting, but not a must have or something you cannot do withput. Who really wants somone or something messing about with the way the audio sounds on a scene by scene basis? Besides which, who's determined this to be artificial intelleligence? It simply applies pre formulated algorithms that then set the output as someone who works at Yamaha has determined it should be set. The person at Yamaha could theoretically be deaf?
 
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QuestShield

Distinguished Member
The Ai mode is nothing new and was included onboard previous Yamaha models. I'd tend to suggest turning it off and this is in fact exactlyt what I do with my current A1080..




I'd also suggest that you'll never really want to apply the DSP modes to discrete multichannel sources and are far more likely to portray such sources as they were intended to be heard. I on;y ever apply DSP to TV content.

I'd say Ai is interesting, but not a must have or something you cannot do withput. Who really wants somone or something messing about with the way the audio sounds on a scene by scene basis? Besides which, who's determined this to be artificial intelleligence? It simply applies pre formulated algorithms that then set the output as someone who works at Yamaha has determined it should be set. The person at Yamaha could theoretically be deaf?

The problem is though all receivers have their own processing and quirks, therefore are you ever sure you're hearing the original soundtrack exactly as the intended by the original sound designer? Not to mention less than ideal room layouts etc.
I've used DSP modes on my old Yamaha be receiver but go for Straight mode a lot (I suppose this is recommended for minimal processing by the receiver), however lately I enjoy Standard DSP mode as it seems to add a bit of oomph.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Yeah, jusy slap on the STRAIGHT mode or even the PURE DIRECT mode and no additional upmixing or DSP should be applied.

After saying this, be aware that all Yamaha models will upmix 5.1 sources to use back surrounds if you've got back surrounds in your setup. No mode option will counter tthis and allow you to portray the discrete 5.1 source as 5.1. Yamaha state that this is intentional. I'd suggest that they not do it because most people would like to decide for themselves as to when to upmix something. The aforementioned upmising is apparently achieved using DTS NEO:6 upmixing so it isn't even as though the 2 back channels are independant of one another and are effectively a mono back channel.
 
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RobertQ

Standard Member
tried to test this setup however eARC to TV isnt a function i have yet on my TV (Q950R) eARC firmware comes out this month (at last) lol

Actually it is not eARC itself causing the issue.
As per my other update it also happens when I connect ATV directly to A6A.
However I've noticed that the amount of delay/silence depends on a program in use when switching from PCM to Dolby Atmos/PCM. In STRAIGHT program it is about 2s (still noticeable). In SURROUND DECODE Auto it is about 6s. While in SURROUND: AI it is about 2s. The Hall in Munich is 2s as well.

Do you see the same?
 

whitehart

Well-known Member
Actually it is not eARC itself causing the issue.
As per my other update it also happens when I connect ATV directly to A6A.
However I've noticed that the amount of delay/silence depends on a program in use when switching from PCM to Dolby Atmos/PCM. In STRAIGHT program it is about 2s (still noticeable). In SURROUND DECODE Auto it is about 6s. While in SURROUND: AI it is about 2s. The Hall in Munich is 2s as well.

Do you see the same?
I'll have to check, cant say I've noticed, when i switch from say PC input (HDMI 4) to Xbox input (HDMI 3) I have a 2s delay while it switches usually to from one format to the other usually surround to ATMOS.
 

RobertQ

Standard Member
I'll have to check, cant say I've noticed, when i switch from say PC input (HDMI 4) to Xbox input (HDMI 3) I have a 2s delay while it switches usually to from one format to the other usually surround to ATMOS.

It's not switching between sources (I haven't tested it) - if you have ATV all you need to do is to play music via the Music app which is Dolby Atmos - A6A reports it as Dolby Atmost/PCM. Then skip to a next track which is is just PCM and then back (or next) to Dolby Atmost/PCM - and depending on mode (straight, etc.) I always see either ~2s or ~6s period when ATV plays music but A6A doesn't output any sound. IIRC same happens if you skip from one Dolby Atmos/PCM track to another Dolby Atmos/PCM track. If you let a song to play to the end and then it starts playing next track automatically - the issue doesn't happen. Or if in a middle of a song you go back to the beginning - the issue doesn't happen either. While this might suggests it is ATV issue, I don't think this is the case given that the delay depends on mode (stright vs. using DSP).

I also observed the issue when playing some BluRay discs and skipping to next/prev chapters - for about 6s no sound is outputed from a6a each time I move fwd/back to another chapter (with dsp mode). This was when the player was connected to TV and eARC was enabled between TV and A6A. If I disable eARC (and use just ARC) then all works fine (although in this case A6A recognizes it as DA/DD+ iirc vs. DA/PCM).

So if you have ATV you should be able to easily reproduce it via the Music app.
 

whitehart

Well-known Member
It's not switching between sources (I haven't tested it) - if you have ATV all you need to do is to play music via the Music app which is Dolby Atmos - A6A reports it as Dolby Atmost/PCM. Then skip to a next track which is is just PCM and then back (or next) to Dolby Atmost/PCM - and depending on mode (straight, etc.) I always see either ~2s or ~6s period when ATV plays music but A6A doesn't output any sound. IIRC same happens if you skip from one Dolby Atmos/PCM track to another Dolby Atmos/PCM track. If you let a song to play to the end and then it starts playing next track automatically - the issue doesn't happen. Or if in a middle of a song you go back to the beginning - the issue doesn't happen either. While this might suggests it is ATV issue, I don't think this is the case given that the delay depends on mode (stright vs. using DSP).

I also observed the issue when playing some BluRay discs and skipping to next/prev chapters - for about 6s no sound is outputed from a6a each time I move fwd/back to another chapter (with dsp mode). This was when the player was connected to TV and eARC was enabled between TV and A6A. If I disable eARC (and use just ARC) then all works fine (although in this case A6A recognizes it as DA/DD+ iirc vs. DA/PCM).

So if you have ATV you should be able to easily reproduce it via the Music app.
Sadly I dont think I'm going to be able to test the exact issue as i dont use eARC and my streaming device is a Nvidia Shield Pro 2019
 

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