Promoted Yamaha’s Flagship AVENTAGE AV Receivers have been re-born under the concept of True Sound

dante01

Distinguished Member
Retailer sent me a mic from rv range of receiver. Round type. I mentioned the aventage used different shape mic but they said didn’t matter?



The target curves used are specific to the mic model that was supplied with an AV receiver. I'm not so sure that the curves relative to the mic supplied with the RXV models would correspond to those associated with the mic you'd ordinarilly get with the Adventage models? This may however be different with the A2 though and it may indeed use the same curves and indeed mic?

The A2 does appear to be supplied with the round mic associated with the V models as opposed to the triangular mic associated with the higher tier Aventage models.
 
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Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
Anyone concerned about the plastic should watch this.


There is metal frame and also metal top plate below the plastic. Doesn’t look poorly built.

I have the A2A but will swap it for an A4A if it comes before the board replacement.
I currently have an A2A here on approval and have had it for around a month.

I should of listened to my guy at my local RS who suggested the sound I'm looking for is available via the Aventage range and he is right.

He's managed to secure me an A4A from the first batch due and I'll swap the A2A for the A4A in due course, which I think now is October. I hope he's being over cautious in advising now October.

I'm so impressed with the Yamaha sound and the fact the A2A doesn't run at the temperature of the sun, unlike the Denon and Marantze range.
 

S3rv3d

Well-known Member
I currently have an A2A here on approval and have had it for around a month.

I should of listened to my guy at my local RS who suggested the sound I'm looking for is available via the Aventage range and he is right.

He's managed to secure me an A4A from the first batch due and I'll swap the A2A for the A4A in due course, which I think now is October. I hope he's being over cautious in advising now October.

I'm so impressed with the Yamaha sound and the fact the A2A doesn't run at the temperature of the sun, unlike the Denon and Marantze range.

I am too even with a 3.1 setup currently I’m impressed with the sound. There are a few niggles for me like not being able to apply YPAO volume and DRC with certain soundtracks.

I wanted the A4A the the more advanced PEQ and the new Low Frequency of YPAO.

Yes the running temperature was a consideration for me as it’s in a cabinet. I only got around 33-35c when testing the temperature.

I’d only had Pioneers if the past and given they’re essentially bankrupt then it was either Denon or Yamaha.
 
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bluescape

Standard Member
Just paid a visit to my local HK dealer this afternoon. All his A4's have sold out, still no A6's and only one A8 remaining.....
 

micks_address

Well-known Member
is there a timeline on where the a2a main board fix is due? ill probably get mine done as i have a ps5 and x box series x..
 

micks_address

Well-known Member
Thanks Barney, qq on dsp on the a2a. Do you use surround decoder setting?
 

Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
Thanks Barney, qq on dsp on the a2a. Do you use surround decoder setting?
Yes Mick. I tried straight for a day or two and then the DSP mode 'surround decoder'.

Personally, I prefer surround decoder. To my ears, in our living room, it gives a wider sound stage.

There are two things I really, really like about this receiver; most importantly is the sound. It's what I've been searching for.

The second is the fact I can access all settings via a web browser. My PC and monitor are immediately to my right of where I sit, I don't have to move and to be able to access the receiver's menu via my desktop is a real bonus.

It means I can tinker, should I feel the need to, and there are no on-screen menus or pop-ups, annoying anyone else watching.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
DSP Programs and SURROUND DECODER modes are not the one and the same thing. The SUR, DECODER modes are mailnly upmixing modes such as Dolby Surround or Neural:X for example. The DSP Programs are proprietary to Yamaha and are DSP processing that is intended to utilise additional presence speakers. The DSP Programs can only use DTS NEO:6 upmixing to upmix content and will not utilise either Dolby Surround or Neural:X upmixing. The DSP Programs also cannot be applied to Atmos or DTS:X soundtracks and engaging them while receiving such audio with simply result in you ceasing to portray Atmos or DTS:X and the DSP Program being applied to the accompanying DD+, TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio element of the incoming audio package.

I do find the movie related DSP Programs interesting though and actually prefer using the a modified instance of the Sci-Fi DSP Program rather than using either Dolby Surround or Neural:X upmixing. You can use these modes to create far more "presence" than the DTS or Dolby upmixing modes.

I've an older Yamaha A1080 that can still be controlled using the iOS or Android control app. This app gives a user access to the DSP Program configurations. The New models no longer include compatability with Uamaha's control app though and now rely solely upon the MusicCast app.

Note that STRAIGHT simply bypasses all DSP Programs and SUR .DECODER upmixing modes. Bass Management and room EQ (PEQ) are still in effect while using this mode. PURE DIRECT bypasses all DSP Programs, Sur, Decoder modes, bass management and the PEQ filters. It would also negate any video processing and turn the AV receiver's front panel display off. I'd only really suggest using PURE DIRECT if you've a pair of large speakers up front and it is probably only really useful for listening to stereo sources.
 
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micks_address

Well-known Member
ok so if i want to get dd+ or whatever the source is sending to the receiver what mode should i use?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
ok so if i want to get dd+ or whatever the source is sending to the receiver what mode should i use?


If simply wanting the AV receiver to portray the DD+ audio without any upmixing or DSP applied then ou'd use the STRAIGHT mode. This mode is also the best option if wanting to portray Atmos or DTS:X because it will automatically bypass any of the other modes that may be preventing you from portraying those object based formats.
 

Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
If simply wanting the AV receiver to portray the DD+ audio without any upmixing or DSP applied then ou'd use the STRAIGHT mode. This mode is also the best option if wanting to portray Atmos or DTS:X because it will automatically bypass any of the other modes that may be preventing you from portraying those object based formats.
Whilst I have mine on surround decoder, the display informs me of the Dolby soundfield (DD or DD+). The display reads as 'DD+/DSur'. When an Atmos track is played via my UHD player or otherwise, it reads as 'Atmos/DD+' whether it's on straight or 'surround decoder'.

Are you saying by leaving it on the surround decoder for all components I'm not getting Atmos? It sounds to me like the receiver is outputting the original score plus upmixing to include the additional speakers, if it isn't an Atmos soundtrack... or do I have that wrong?
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
You can leave Dolby Surround engaged while dealing with an Atmos soundtrack. The AV receiver will not apply Dolby Surround to content if it detects the presence of Dolby Atmos. This is something Dolby have integrated into their guidelines for the use of Dolby Surround and the way it should be integrated into AV receivers. If you however have a mode such as Neural:X engaged then the AV receiver with ignore the Atmos metadata and apply the Neural:X upmixing to the DD+ or TrueHD element of the audio package. The same is true of Neural:X if when applied to DTS:X. The Neural:X upmixing is bypassed if the AV receiver detect DTS:X metadata.

The DSP Programs negates both Atmos and DTS:X and will be applied to the channel based elemet of the incoming packsge.

If the front panel don't say Atmos then you ain't getting or portraying Atmos. You cannot apply any upmixing or DSP Programs to Atmos or DTS:X soundtracks. THe proprietary Dolby Surround upmixing is nehated by Atmos metadata and DTS:X metadata negated Neural:X.
 

Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
@dante01 do you have the 'surround decoder' option in the DSP list on your receiver?

There is definitely no difference in what I hear when playing an Atmos soundtrack when switching between straight and surround decoder.

And when you choose the surround decoder option, a brief message pops up on the display "surround field auto".

I'm still inclined to use surround decoder, as long as I know it isn't interferring with an Atmos soundtrack, which is what I believe you confirmed. You've peaked my interest in experimenting with sci-fi though. I'd never strayed that far up the DSP list.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I can select the upmixer to use, but the only option is to use NEO:6 upmixing. This is set by default for the DSP Programs that facilitate and use it.

You cannot engage both a Sur Decoder mode and a DSP Program simultaneously. It is either a case of one or the other. The DSP Programs will upmix the audio to utilise all of the speakers present anyway.

No, there wouldn't be any diffeence between the Dolby Surround mode and STRAIGHT if and when the incoming audio is inclusive of Atmos. As I explained, the presence of Atmos metadata negates the Dolby Surround upmixing so it would automatically be bypassed if the AV receiver detects the presence of Atmos metadata. The Dolby Surround upmixing wouldn't be applied and is negated in such instances. You cannot apply Dolby Surround upmixing to Atmos. What you have to be aware of is the fact that the other upmixing modes such as Neural:X wouldn't be negated by the presence of Atmos metadata. If you had Neural:X engaged then the AV receiver would ignore the Atmos metdata and apply Neural:X to the DD+ or TrueHD channel based audio that was packaged with the Atmos metadata. You'd be hearing the DD+ or TrueHD audio upmixed by Neural:X as opposed to hearing the object based Atmos soundtrack. The front pabel display would also not say Atmos in such instances.
 

Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
I can select the upmixer to use, but the only option is to use NEO:6 upmixing. This is set by default for the DSP Programs that facilitate and use it.

You cannot engage both a Sur Decoder mode and a DSP Program simultaneously. It is either a case of one or the other. The DSP Programs will upmix the audio to utilise all of the speakers present anyway.

No, there wouldn't be any diffeence between the Dolby Surround mode and STRAIGHT if and when the incoming audio is inclusive of Atmos. As I explained, the presence of Atmos metadata negates the Dolby Surround upmixing so it would automatically be bypassed if the AV receiver detects the presence of Atmos metadata. The Dolby Surround upmixing wouldn't be applied and is negated in such instances. You cannot apply Dolby Surround upmixing to Atmos. What you have to be aware of is the fact that the other upmixing modes such as Neural:X wouldn't be negated by the presence of Atmos metadata. If you had Neural:X engaged then the AV receiver would ignore the Atmos metdata and apply Neural:X to the DD+ or TrueHD channel based audio that was packaged with the Atmos metadata. You'd be hearing the DD+ or TrueHD audio upmixed by Neural:X as opposed to hearing the object based Atmos soundtrack. The front pabel display would also not say Atmos in such instances.
This what I thought you weren't understanding. I'm not opting to use a surround mode, the receiver is by way of the DSP program, 'surround decoder'.

'Surround decoder' is listed as the last option in my DSP list on the A2A. And as I say, a pop up message on the receiver display states 'surround decode auto' when you opt for the 'surround decoder' program from the DSP list.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The DSP Programs and the Surround Decoder modes are 2 different things and not the one and the same thing. The DSP Programs are proprietary to Yamahs and predate Dolby ever even considering employing height and or ceiling speakers. Yamaha were employing 'presence' speakers well in advance of Dolby even introducing Atmos in cenemas and before Dolby developed Pro Logic IIz or Audyssey's introduction of DSX.

Most take the michael out of the DSP Programs and regard them as gimmicks, I suspect because of the OTT Beer Keller and Cellar options associated with the music DSP Programs, but the MOVIE options can be quite effective and do produce more room filling atmosphere than either Dolby Surround or Neural:X upmixing. The fact is that they can also be edited and changed to suit most tastes. Many also dislike the "echo", but this can be diminished by altering the settings for that particular Program. Room size and delay settings are editable for all the DSP Programs.

The only upmixing ever engaged by the receiver while a DSP Program is engaged will be DTS NEO:6. This is set by default and isn't an option that van be edited or changed by the AV receiver. It used to be the case that you could select Pro Logic on the the older Yamaha models, but this was later dropped with later models.

In order to avoid confusion, I's tend to use the term upmixing modes when relating to the Surround Decoder modes as opposed to DSP processing. You'd otherwise be inferring that you are taling about the DSP Programs.

Yes, my A1080 has an AUTO mode in the SUR. DECODER options. It doesn't always result in what I'd want though so I don't use that option.


The SURROUND DECODE mode has to be differentiated from the SUR. DECODER modes. The latter are a group of mostly upmixing modes while the former is a mode that according to Yamahs "The surround decoder enables multichannel playback from 2-channel sources without sound field effects.". No idea as to why you'd need this rather than using STRAIGHT? Maybe they mean that Music DSP Programs would still be applied to the 2 channel audio without upmixing to the other speakers while this mode is engaged?

The last option in the DSP Programs is SURROUND DECODE and not SURROUND DECODER! :)
 
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Southsider21

Active Member
Can't find RX V6A anywhere need help
 

micks_address

Well-known Member
Apart from the a2a I don’t think any are available yet in uk/Ireland ?
 

Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
The DSP Programs and the Surround Decoder modes are 2 different things and not the one and the same thing. The DSP Programs are proprietary to Yamahs and predate Dolby ever even considering employing height and or ceiling speakers. Yamaha were employing 'presence' speakers well in advance of Dolby even introducing Atmos in cenemas and before Dolby developed Pro Logic IIz or Audyssey's introduction of DSX.

Most take the michael out of the DSP Programs and regard them as gimmicks, I suspect because of the OTT Beer Keller and Cellar options associated with the music DSP Programs, but the MOVIE options can be quite effective and do produce more room filling atmosphere than either Dolby Surround or Neural:X upmixing. The fact is that they can also be edited and changed to suit most tastes. Many also dislike the "echo", but this can be diminished by altering the settings for that particular Program. Room size and delay settings are editable for all the DSP Programs.

The only upmixing ever engaged by the receiver while a DSP Program is engaged will be DTS NEO:6. This is set by default and isn't an option that van be edited or changed by the AV receiver. It used to be the case that you could select Pro Logic on the the older Yamaha models, but this was later dropped with later models.

In order to avoid confusion, I's tend to use the term upmixing modes when relating to the Surround Decoder modes as opposed to DSP processing. You'd otherwise be inferring that you are taling about the DSP Programs.

Yes, my A1080 has an AUTO mode in the SUR. DECODER options. It doesn't always result in what I'd want though so I don't use that option.


The SURROUND DECODE mode has to be differentiated from the SUR. DECODER modes. The latter are a group of mostly upmixing modes while the former is a mode that according to Yamahs "The surround decoder enables multichannel playback from 2-channel sources without sound field effects.". No idea as to why you'd need this rather than using STRAIGHT? Maybe they mean that Music DSP Programs would still be applied to the 2 channel audio without upmixing to the other speakers while this mode is engaged?

The last option in the DSP Programs is SURROUND DECODE and not SURROUND DECODER! :)
The last option on the DPS list on the RX-A2A is called 'surround decoder' and not surround decode.

And I use it because it employs all of my surround speaker arrangement, 5.2.2, although the same sound is distributed via both sub connections, where as straight does not (use all of the speakers).

Hence, why I experience a perceived wider sound stage because the DPS program labelled 'surround decoder' uses all speakers regardless of the input.

I'm surprised at you @dante01 , you told me here to use the DSP program that sounds best to me and yet here you are, challenging me on it. I'm a little disappointed as I hold you and your considered input and advice in high regard.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The last option on the DPS list on the RX-A2A is called 'surround decoder' and not surround decode.

The last option in the DSP Programs is SURROUND DECODE and not SURROUND DECODER!


by default 2021-08-21 at 16.30.22.png





And neither am I telling which or what modes to use. I'm telling you that the DSP PROGRAMS are not the same trhing as the SUROUND DECODER modes. You use one or the other.

Even the remote has separate buttons for the DSP PROHRAMS and the SUR. DECODER modes. They are not the one and the same thing!


To quote Yamaha:
CINEMA DSP (Digital Sound Field Processor)
Since the surround sound systems were originally designed for use in movie theaters, their effect is best experienced in a theater that has many speakers designed for acoustic effects. Since home conditions (such as room size, wall material, and number of speakers) can differ so widely, it is inevitable that there are differences in the sound that you hear. Based on a wealth of actually measured data, CINEMA DSP, Yamaha’s original DSP technology provides the audiovisual experience of a movie theater in your own home.

This should not be confused with the upmixing modes you'd associate with the SUROUND DECODER modes on a Yamaha AV receiver. The two are not the same thing!
 
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micks_address

Well-known Member
Im confused
 

Barney Gumble

Well-known Member
View attachment 1558648




And neither am I telling which or what modes to use. I'm telling you that the DSP PROGRAMS are not the same trhing as the SUROUND DECODER modes. You use one or the other.

Even the remote has separate buttons for the DSP PROHRAMS and the SUR. DECODER modes. They are not the one and the same thing!


To quote Yamaha:


This should not be confused with the upmixing modes you'd associate with the SUROUND DECODER modes on a Yamaha AV receiver. The two are not the same thing!
Look at the PDF, the screenshot from my PC, which is connected to the RX-A2A... does it, or does it not, list Surround Decoder as the last in the list for DSP programs?

What can't speak can't lie. I'm not confused by what is and what isn't a DSP program. I've explained and demonstrated how I've accessed the option.

And has it not occurred to you, that in spite of the fact Yamaha in their manuals mention 'Surround Decoder' over and over, the only reason it doesn't state it in bold in the picture you've posted is possibly, just possibly, due to the size of the font used by Yamaha?!

Incidentally, the page you've posted above is from the manual from the RX-A4A and upwards. not the RX-A2A. I've attached the actual relevant page, page 111, from the RX-A2A manual.

I've nothing more to say on this. I'm as bored as everyone else I imagine.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I think I already said that I've no idea as to why Yamama would or have included a SURROUND DECODE option in reference to the DSP PROGRAM options? They don't really explain what it does.

This doesn't detract from the fact that the SURROUND DECODER modes and the DSP PROGRAMS are two different things.

I quoted from the RX-A8 manual and not the A2 manual.




Yamaha need to explain exactly what the SUROUND DECODE or DECODER option does in the DSP PROGRAM options????? Why is it in those options when the SUR. DECODER options are an entirely different thing to the DSP PROGRAM and if there is a seperate button and set of options for the SUR. DECODER?
 
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