XXLS400 near field measurement

TB Rich

Well-known Member
Ah really shame the 12 Mono is too deep and i agree the finish does look bit meh next to those shiny R5s. Mono 10 has huge output potential at 20hz region even for some larger 12" sub, but perhaps due to optimizing that range they will give up in the mid-bass region and if you going to stick with just one sub then it would worry me little. One reason why lot of people weren´t fully happy with the old SVS PB1000 was the lack of mid/upper base impact while it had tremendous deep bass for a 10" driver product and this is quite similar to Mono 10. Audioholics also mentioned "10" THX Select subwoofer isn't quite able to produce chest-punching mid-bass alone" . This is one reason why the 12 Mono would be worth the extra few hundred, but the size and finish is more ideal for man cave.

I`m questioning is single 1723 1S going to give you that jaw drop to floor feel with the deep stuff which you were mainly after. White 1961 1V placed so the driver facing the speakers (5-10cm clearance) and leaving bit room behind the slot port could work. If you read 1961 1S & 1V reviews in the Arendal site the 1V clearly adds "earthquake feel" which the small one couldn`t produce even if it can do rather high 96db at 20hz (2m rms) outside! The 1961 1V can hit 100db outside from 2meters (rms), if you corner load it in-room you can add ~9db (rms) to get corner loaded in-room output from 2meter distance (=109db), if sub placed 4meter away then ~3db less so 106db (3db = in-room doubling of distance loss).

4db output difference in the lowest frequencies (1S vs. 1V at 20hz) can be perceived twice as loud plus the ability to move air should mean better TR. With Arendal you have the 60day buy&try, but it would really suck to pay the X sum if returning the large box. Most AVF owners has been happy though as it´s still large box which can hit +100db at 16hz in-room and you probably saw the group test with XTZ and SVS + others with Arendal sounding best so with the white finish it`s good option no doubt. Otherwise you have to think about something more compact like the XTZ 12.17 Edge which is on sale atm, it does give up some SPL down low due to smaller cab but still step up from XXLS400. There is also gloss black without extra cost. See below post for @RMP888 dual Edges with Kef R11s:

The XTZ is certainly good value, quite compact too and in gloss black fits the bill…However I’d sort of ruled it out though based on reading a few comments on here of users having directly compared it with a BK mono+ and found the 12.17 Edge to be noticeably out performed. And I’ve also seen a good few comments around prt chuffing with the sub too :/ Looks/size it’s ideal, performance though, then I’m not convinced by it at the moment.

I think you’re right on the 1723 1S, a single has me wondering if it’ll have enough low end to justify the expense - I guess it’s size though means getting a pair is no problem, but well the money certainly would be! No way I’m spending more on subs than my mains :eek:

As another distraction…. I’ve seen that Monoprice do gloss black in the US, I did not realise they even offered that as an option anywhere. I wonder if they might end up bringing them here, especially a gloss black mono 12 v2. I mean it’d really be on the limit of size, but it fits, and let’s be honest it is mostly tucked away in that under stairs position and what would be visible would match the KEF perfectly 🤔.
And a Mono12 v2 surely has to pack all the power I need and more, 108dB at 20hz @ 2m! :D

(just sent them a msg on their contact us page, will see what they say)
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
108dB at 20hz @ 2m
In case you missed it, that's the peak output figure, not the normally quoted RMS figure (as used in my output table) which is 3dB lower so 105dB. Still huge though and enough to hit reference in most rooms.
 

TB Rich

Well-known Member
In case you missed it, that's the peak output figure, not the normally quoted RMS figure (as used in my output table) which is 3dB lower so 105dB. Still huge though and enough to hit reference in most rooms.
Ah no hadn’t noted that, thank you.

So pretty much then a Mono 10 v2 trades punches with the 1961 1V. I think the sizing and woofer position makes the Mono the preferred option aslong as they can suply Gloss, if so I‘m thinking sod it get 2 🙈
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
The XTZ is certainly good value, quite compact too and in gloss black fits the bill…However I’d sort of ruled it out though based on reading a few comments on here of users having directly compared it with a BK mono+ and found the 12.17 Edge to be noticeably out performed. And I’ve also seen a good few comments around prt chuffing with the sub too :/ Looks/size it’s ideal, performance though, then I’m not convinced by it at the moment.

I think you’re right on the 1723 1S, a single has me wondering if it’ll have enough low end to justify the expense - I guess it’s size though means getting a pair is no problem, but well the money certainly would be! No way I’m spending more on subs than my mains :eek:

As another distraction…. I’ve seen that Monoprice do gloss black in the US, I did not realise they even offered that as an option anywhere. I wonder if they might end up bringing them here, especially a gloss black mono 12 v2. I mean it’d really be on the limit of size, but it fits, and let’s be honest it is mostly tucked away in that under stairs position and what would be visible would match the KEF perfectly 🤔.
And a Mono12 v2 surely has to pack all the power I need and more, 108dB at 20hz @ 2m! :D

(just sent them a msg on their contact us page, will see what they say)

Yep i remember @John24ssj showing the comparison to Mono+ which is lot larger and it just goes to show how much size matters at the end. The port noise i`m still not sure how easily it happens as you know lot of people are playing that stupid intro of the EOT that hits in the 10hz region and even the largest SVS gives port noise when played loud enough. The way the XTZ is designed to be driven in the mode that gives best low end means you have to seal one port so that doesn´t really help with the small cab either. I was hoping the XTZ 1x12 Cinema Edge would be on sale as it also looks nicer while offering better performance and slot port design (the old model was also THX Ultra certified, they dropped it like Arendal cause it would have raised cost further up), but sadly it´s sold out and middle of May availability and the UK expenses doesn´t make it as exciting anymore sadly. SVS PB1000 Pro could have been spot on for you with the size in mind, but the black ash finish. :(

I thought the same thing last night with the gloss Monolith. Fingers crossed they could bring gloss one, you could also ask from @AmericanAudio if it would be possible to special order one if the UK warehouse for Monoprice isn´t keeping the gloss in stock. As Wolf mentioned there is typo in the site, however in-room corner loaded like you doing it should be dramatic difference to XXLS400 which would do about ~90db outside from 2M at best. The old SVS SB12-NSD hit 91,9db at 20hz and AVF editor Russell Williams said about SVS vs. XXLS400 : "Ultimately, the SB12 delivers more bottom end at higher listening levels and a different set of hook up options. For movies, I'd go SVS if the 50% extra budget is available... " I wouldn´t be suprised if you felt almost like a "night and day difference" with the Monolith M-12 to BK as it´s not just the SPL difference. Old quote from another site which i pasted many years ago;

Sealed subs don't produce as much low-frequency SPL as ported subs do. And, they also typically don't produce as much tactile response as comparable ported subs do. So, it's possible to have several 18" sealed subs and to still not get all the tactile response you want. Tactile response is not the same thing as sound pressure level--loudness. TR is a product of particle velocity which is created by the movement of air particles. Ported subwoofers move air through their ports and not just with their drivers. That typically gives them an advantage with respect to TR as well as low-frequency SPL.
 

TB Rich

Well-known Member
Yep it was Johns thread I think I read that in, both he and another user had the same feeling, with a direct comparison. I’m not sure either how much the port chuffing noise would present itself in real world use, but I think at the very least both the Arendal and Monolith subs are options I should pick in preference to the XTZ as this point.

I wouldn´t be suprised if you felt almost like a "night and day difference" with the Monolith M-12 to BK
This is ultimately it in a nutshell, and if I can‘t (either room constraints of financial) then there’s not much point in me bothering really.

I’ve had for a long time the assumption ported would be flabby and slow… and subs ’have’ to be sealed if you want to use them for music. But it’s clearly an incorrect belief and that quality ported subs are not the same as a cheap home cinema in a box ported sub kind of thing!
The real moment I realised I was incorrect, was when it dawned on me my bloody main speakers are in fact, themselves ported, and sound amazing! Duh!!! :)
 

TB Rich

Well-known Member
So apparently there are plans to sell the Gloss Black subs in the EU/UK, just nothing yet so far as a firm eta (they said check back in 3-6 months).
I'm going to sit and wait for them as a pair of Gloss Mono 10's in either front corner should look, and sound, very nice I hope!

In the mean time I think I'll look into changing my HT source I think. I use an Xbox One S but I've discovered it doesn't do Dolby Vision for discs! And it whilst it does DV for streaming apps, it makes a bit of a fist of frame rates for those!
So Apple TV with proper native frame rate support and DV etc, will take care of streaming content, and then pick up a dedicated 4k UHD player for discs.
Oh and I tried to do eARC and use the native TV apps on the XG9505 - maybe it's just me, but what a terrible mess eARC/CEC etc is! Couldn't for love nor money figure out exactly what the TV was sending out for audio, and couldn't use the Info button on the AVR because it seemingly won't overlay a GUI when eARC is in use?! The final thing was the lack of unison between the volume scales, I like my AVR in dB reference scale, but the TV ignores that and uses it's own arbitrary numbering! I've never attempted eARC/CEC etc before - but it seemed a terribly vague affair, and not for control freaks like myself who want to know exactly what setting is in use and have full use of the AVR GUI and features without exception!

I'm ruing out Arendal, simply because of the side firing driver with a rear port design. It just makes orientating them too awkward, especially if wanting to avoid having the amp panel and it's connections sticking out in to the room.
If you could choose which side the driver was on, that would be a massive step in the right direction - and really if you could also further choose the front or rear for the port too, then that'd be perfect.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
So apparently there are plans to sell the Gloss Black subs in the EU/UK, just nothing yet so far as a firm eta (they said check back in 3-6 months).
I'm going to sit and wait for them as a pair of Gloss Mono 10's in either front corner should look, and sound, very nice I hope!

In the mean time I think I'll look into changing my HT source I think. I use an Xbox One S but I've discovered it doesn't do Dolby Vision for discs! And it whilst it does DV for streaming apps, it makes a bit of a fist of frame rates for those!
So Apple TV with proper native frame rate support and DV etc, will take care of streaming content, and then pick up a dedicated 4k UHD player for discs.
Oh and I tried to do eARC and use the native TV apps on the XG9505 - maybe it's just me, but what a terrible mess eARC/CEC etc is! Couldn't for love nor money figure out exactly what the TV was sending out for audio, and couldn't use the Info button on the AVR because it seemingly won't overlay a GUI when eARC is in use?! The final thing was the lack of unison between the volume scales, I like my AVR in dB reference scale, but the TV ignores that and uses it's own arbitrary numbering! I've never attempted eARC/CEC etc before - but it seemed a terribly vague affair, and not for control freaks like myself who want to know exactly what setting is in use and have full use of the AVR GUI and features without exception!

I'm ruing out Arendal, simply because of the side firing driver with a rear port design. It just makes orientating them too awkward, especially if wanting to avoid having the amp panel and it's connections sticking out in to the room.
If you could choose which side the driver was on, that would be a massive step in the right direction - and really if you could also further choose the front or rear for the port too, then that'd be perfect.

I have a generic Amlogic Android box, works fine for HDR and HD audio, they're very affordable. Mines a 905X chipset. Fitted SD card with coreelac. Also does framerate switching.
 

TB Rich

Well-known Member
I have a generic Amlogic Android box, works fine for HDR and HD audio, they're very affordable. Mines a 905X chipset. Fitted SD card with coreelac
Will look into it thanks - but I'm thinking with AppIe then I get the advantage as a HomeKit user all the doorbell, camera, and notifications etc integrated with it. So the price premium you can start to man-maths away somewhat!

At any rate, this will all give me some searching and pondering to do! :)
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Will look into it thanks - but I'm thinking with AppIe then I get the advantage as a HomeKit user all the doorbell, camera, and notifications etc integrated with it. So the price premium you can start to man-maths away somewhat!

At any rate, this will all give me some searching and pondering to do! :)



For the price it's brilliant bit of kit. I had a S912 based player that was good too, but coreelac EOL, I don't think that supports HDR. But it's fine for 1080p, HDMI, HD audio etc.
 

sm1ggsy

Active Member
+ 1 for apple 4K , mines been brilliant I’ve had cheap boxes not a fan, DV picture is stunning the framerrate perfect and I find the audio better than other streaming services I use .
 

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