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XTZ Cinema Series

indus

Well-known Member
I thought it would be helpful to start a separate thread on the XTZ cinema series so that they don't just get buried in the general XTZ owners thread. My original comments can be found here.

The XTZ Speaker Owner's Thread Part II | Page 35 | AVForums


As a quick copy and paste reference.

Well I'm just back from Jag's house having auditioned the cinema series. Firstly I should say what a thoroughly nice chap he is, an enthusiast through and through.

Secondly I should make clear what my goal is. For a number of years I had a fairly large non dedicated room with very large floor standing speakers and centre all fired by some fairly decent amplification. My left, right and centre retail in excess of £7k.

I've now part built a new dedicated room and it is much smaller at 3m by 5m. I want to keep my existing speakers in another room for just hi fi and so needed new LCR speakers to go behind a new AT screen.

Now here comes the difficult part. I wanted speakers that sounded as good as my MA platinum speakers. But not only do they have to be much cheaper (I don't have another £7k to spend) they need to be much smaller due to room size and the AT screen.

In my heart of hearts I knew it was highly unlikely that I could replicate the sound experience of my MA platinums in a box about a tenth of the size and a fifth of the price.

I auditioned some in wall speakers last week that cost about £450 each and that audition confirmed that at that size and price I was never going to get the sort of sound I had been used to. They lacked detail and the sound stage was very small.


Right then, the simple answer is that these speakers are nothing short of amazing. Not just at the price point they are at but at any price point. I wasn't expecting this, I was expecting something good but not this good. These things sound at least as good if not better than my MA platinum set up.

I played scenes that I'm very familiar with from The Incredible Hulk and The Dark Knight ie ones I've used many times to set up/calibrate my own system in the past. To be honest within five minutes of listening to these speakers I had decided I would be buying them. It wasn't a case of trying hard to listen to whether they were any good, they were right in my face from the get go.

Jag's room is huge, probably three times the size of mine. The speakers filled the whole room and I mean really filled it in a way that frankly beggars belief given their modest size. Dialogue sounds far better than my MA PL150.

Everything sounds right. The sound is so open, so coherent, so undistorted. The sound stage is huge and I mean huge. It really sounds like what you would hear at a high quality cinema.

I don't often gush about about AV things because I've become used to the law of diminishing returns. Some things are very good but are so expensive that they become irrelevant to all but the mega rich. And many things are priced very high but give mediocre results. Even though I own some very nice kit I am very careful how I spend my cash.

For the first time in a very long time I've experienced a product that I feel gives more than it takes. These speakers give a full on high end cinema sound at a price point that is almost entry level.

I defy anybody to listen to these and not be blown away unless you are in the market for £10k+ speakers.

I'll give one caveat though. When I listened to the system the bass was a bit light for my liking but I'm assuming this was down to the quick set up Jag had to do and the subs rather than the speakers.

Overall, I am absolutely stunned and amazed by what these speakers can do. I'd feel that way even if they cost twice as much but at the price they are it's unbelievable.
 

indus

Well-known Member
I've opened one of the boxes today and must say they are very well built. Sorry about the poor quality pictures


You can see how angled the front is so that you get a degree of toe in even when mounted flush on the wall


The white gloves are a nice touch, I felt like doing the moonwalk when I put them on:D

 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
They certainly look impressive -

XTZ Cinema Series - Compact hifi cinema experience.





By the way, the speaker are not perfectly symetrical. There is a definite Right and Left speaker -

Cinema M6 Left Center

Cinema M6 Right Center

Though specifically what that difference is, I can't tell.

The 3x12" Subs look pretty impressive too -

SUB 3X12 Matt/Studio Black

Just a modest 2700 Watts of Class-D power. (3x 900w) Response potentially as low as 16hz.

Probably the only real competion in this style speaker is the MK 150 (£1100 each) and the MK 300 (£2200 each).

Ideal - AV ... MK S150

Ideal - AV ... MK S300

Though the MK have a much longer history and a stronger reputation. In many movie studio, the speakers for mixing 5.1 or 7.1 sound are the MK.

Alternately, the new Kreisel speaker. The "K" in M&K stands for Kreisel who was one of the founders of the company.

Satellite Lcr And Tv Speakers Ken Kreisel Sound Q85 Quattro | hifix.co.uk

Klipsch makes a somewhat similar design, but instead of a gang of tweeters, they use a horn -

klipsch KL 650 THX - Google Search

THX Ultra2 Home Theater System | Klipsch®

Just a few random bit of information.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
By the way, once they are setup and running in your space, please report back and give us your impressions.

Steve/bluewizard
 

indus

Well-known Member
Thanks Steve, your pictures actually do the speakers justice unlike my poor efforts!

@jag, is the sub 3X12 ported or sealed? Also I know others make stackable subs and some make multi driver subs but has anybody else actually made a multi driver all in one sub with the drivers in that configuration?

Btw, that's my old kitchen the new one is on order!
 
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indus

Well-known Member
Hi Indus, do you know what surrounds were used in the demo at jags?
The sub 3x12 can be used sealed or ported, as i understand it the box is one enclosure rather than 3 sealed chambers.

Hi Dan

The surrounds were XTZ S5 speaker in a 7.2 set up.

I'm confused how it can be a used as a ported and sealed, unless you mean using port bungs?

Thanks
 

hifix

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hi Steve

Just for clarification purposes, as this is a sticky subject that can easily be confusing for new forum members... :)

Probably the only real competion in this style speaker is the MK 150 (£1100 each) and the MK 300 (£2200 each).
And also the Ken Kreisel Quattro range, of course :)

Though the MK have a much longer history and a stronger reputation. In many movie studio, the speakers for mixing 5.1 or 7.1 sound are the MK.

Alternately, the new Kreisel speaker. The "K" in M&K stands for Kreisel who was one of the founders of the company.
Ken Kreisel was the co-founder of Miller & Kreisel (M&K), who shut down M&K in 2006. MK Sound, the newer company, came into being in 2008 if I recall correctly, after an audio group purchased a certain amount of rights (which will seemingly never be known), and has since produced an all new range of speakers which are unconnected with Ken Kreisel. Technically speaking, XTZ have been around longer than MK Sound.
 

Jag of the Bailey

Distinguished Member
Hi Indus, do you know what surrounds were used in the demo at jags?
The sub 3x12 can be used sealed or ported, as i understand it the box is one enclosure rather than 3 sealed chambers.
The S5's were used as side and rear surrounds though admittedly the rears hadn't been calibrated or run in.

The sub 1x12 and 3x12 are vented subs with the option of a sealed mode by blocking the vents with provided plugs. Both subs employ the same trapezoidal cabinetry seen throughout the cinema range.

500w rms on the 1x12 or 3 x 500w rms on the 3x12 with an increased 9.5db of amplified bass on the latter.
 

fatboy frank

Well-known Member
Hi Dan

The surrounds were XTZ S5 speaker in a 7.2 set up.

I'm confused how it can be a used as a ported and sealed, unless you mean using port bungs?

Thanks
To clarify this from XTZ page.

To provide an optimal sound quality, suited to various room sizes and listener tastes, the SUB 3X12 is equipped with a lot of possibilities to adjust the sound adequately.
Since the SUB 3X12 has its -3dB point at very deep 16Hz, we decided to add a special Room Gain EQ that takes the room gain into account. Additional adjustments can be done by closing one or both bass reflex ports with the attached plugs. So the 1X12 offers perfect bass at any time.Further refinements can be made with adjustment of the two EQ’s available and of course volume, phase, crossover frequency
Other possibilitys

SUB 3X12 can be stacked on top of eachother as a line array system.
Information:
  • Type: 3 x 12” Bass Reflex Slot Port / Sealed Hybrid
  • Amplifier: Claridy Class D monoblock
  • Power: 3x 500 W RMS 900 W Peak - Total power: 1500W RMS / 2700W peak
  • Frequency response
  • Anechoic EQ: 16- 160Hz Ported / 22 - 160Hz Closed
  • Room Gain EQ: 24 - 160Hz Ported / 28 - 160Hz Closed
  • EQ: 2 position - Anechoic, Room Gain
  • xover: variable 40-160Hz, Bypass , Auto turn on/off
  • Level: Fixed Ref Level, variable gain
  • Input: XLR, (2)RCA
  • Output: XLR pass-thru
  • Phase: Variable 0-180
  • Color : Non reflective Matte black 8 layers paint on the front and Studio finish matt paint on side ,top and backside.
  • Size: H 1130 x W 535 x D555 mm : 44.5 x 21.1 x 21.9"
    Weight : 77.4 kg / 170.3 lbs
 

indus

Well-known Member
Thanks Frank.

On paper, given there are three 12 inch drivers shouldn't this thing be significantly superior to something like a SVS PB13?

I think the prices are going to be similar.
 

fatboy frank

Well-known Member
I don't know how they'd compare in real world but i do know i've got an SVS 20 - 39 PC+ and that performs pretty good, i've opted to go for 2 of the 1x12 so looking forward to seeing how they compare.
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
Thanks Frank.

On paper, given there are three 12 inch drivers shouldn't this thing be significantly superior to something like a SVS PB13?

I think the prices are going to be similar.
I think it depends on what you mean by Superior? The price on the 3x12 is about €2000, so about £1600. That actually seems fairly cheap for a monster Sub like this.

Likely it kicks a devastating amount of air. Generally XTZ products are very highly rated. While in our fantasies we would like to have TWO of these beasts, I think one would be more than enough unless you have an extremely large dedicated Home Cinema room.

My thought would be to place the Sub Horizontally between the front speakers. In that position, I can see it throwing out a pretty substantial wall of sound. Though, on the other hand, I simply can not envision this beast in a typical English Flat/Apartment or even house. Like I said, this is probably massive overkill in all but the largest Home Cinema rooms.

Still ... a guy can always dream.

Steve/bluewizard
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
You can never really have too much sub, even if you don't use it to the max you still have loads of headroom and much less distortion.:)
 

mattkhan

Distinguished Member
Thanks Frank.

On paper, given there are three 12 inch drivers shouldn't this thing be significantly superior to something like a SVS PB13?

I think the prices are going to be similar.
The published specs are quite limited so it is hard to say for sure. The question is how much boost has been applied to get a -3 point of 22Hz in sealed mode? That number suggests it is either not an especially powerful device or is strictly targeting a 20Hz + passband imv.
 

BlueWizard

Distinguished Member
There are people who build huge Manifold Subwoofers, typically either into the Attic or the Cellar, then vent them into the listening space. Apparently when you use TWELVE 15" or 18" subwoofer, it is pretty devastating. -

Quad 18 in-floor Infinite Baffle Subwoofer - AVS Forum

Manifold size vs. opening size | "Cult of the Infinitely Baffled" Hear The Bass, Not The Box The definitive online resource for Infinite Baffle subwoofer design Established 1999

Quad 18 in-floor Infinite Baffle Subwoofer - AVS Forum

Infinite baffle sub - help and opinions needed

For those who want absolute lethal Subwoofers, give it some thought.

Steve/bluewizard
 

Dr. Robert

Active Member
would a cinema centre fit with 99.26 l/r?
im just wondering as the cinemas seem to have dome tweeters and the 99s have ribbon.
 

Jag of the Bailey

Distinguished Member
would a cinema centre fit with 99.26 l/r?
im just wondering as the cinemas seem to have dome tweeters and the 99s have ribbon.
It would certainly 'fit' in the sense that you'd be able to utilise the 99.26 LR with a Cinema centre. To get the very best out of the Cinema series though, or any system for that matter you ought really to have a timbre matched LCR.

The centre speaker is of great importance for movie's as a vast majority of the front soundstage is covered by the centre. Vocal's are however equally presented from L&R dependant on the placement of characters. You'd also need to account for sweeps like helicopters or sounds travelling from the rears and across the front. In order to ensure one speakers doesn't stand out from the others they ought to be tonally matched. Note also that the Cinema centre hits greater SPL's than the 99.26. It also has focussed dispersion characteristics. Given the choice, I'd either run 3 x cinema series or the 99's with matching centre.

We all however have preferences. You may find an unmatched centre to work fine for yourself. If you'd like to hear the 99's running with the Cinema centre, feel free to pop down for a demo and i'll arrange the same for you if that's something that interests you.
 

Dr. Robert

Active Member
It would certainly 'fit' in the sense that you'd be able to utilise the 99.26 LR with a Cinema centre. To get the very best out of the Cinema series though, or any system for that matter you ought really to have a timbre matched LCR.

The centre speaker is of great importance for movie's as a vast majority of the front soundstage is covered by the centre. Vocal's are however equally presented from L&R dependant on the placement of characters. You'd also need to account for sweeps like helicopters or sounds travelling from the rears and across the front. In order to ensure one speakers doesn't stand out from the others they ought to be tonally matched. Note also that the Cinema centre hits greater SPL's than the 99.26. It also has focussed dispersion characteristics. Given the choice, I'd either run 3 x cinema series or the 99's with matching centre.

We all however have preferences. You may find an unmatched centre to work fine for yourself. If you'd like to hear the 99's running with the Cinema centre, feel free to pop down for a demo and i'll arrange the same for you if that's something that interests you.
thought a much. i might wait a bit and save for a full set of l/c/r
i'm getting the 99.26's next month for the living room for music. hope they sound as good as the reviews say
 

mooro1973

Active Member
Heard these at the Epic Home Cinema forum event this morning. Very very nice. More musical than MK S150's, but with cinema "slam" to them too.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
If these were Jag's 150's they are MkI's IIRC.
 

indus

Well-known Member
I'm away on my hols for a couple of weeks but can't wait to get back and get started on my cinema room!

I'd be interested in comments from anybody else who went to Jag's forum day
 

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