XTZ 12.17 Subwoofer thread

All beyond me im expecting a mini dsp - 88a on monday hopefully sort these things out im gonna move my m6 before then they dont seem to like too much space
It's beyond me too. Ideally it wouldn't have those peaks n troughs. You can lend me your dsp which might sort it out a bit.

I might try the audyssey app first and see what difference I can make
 
It's beyond me too. Ideally it wouldn't have those peaks n troughs. You can lend me your dsp which might sort it out a bit.

I might try the audyssey app first and see what difference I can make
:rotfl: Haha even if you lived next door that would be a mammoth task the minidsp ddrc 88a sits between your processor and amps so 16 cable connections plus the unit is linked to your own licence account


I must confess ive never used my room analyser pro 2 as i couldn't find enough help on line but from what i picked up it is only a tool to allow you to make better placement of your speakers and or help to see where you might need acoustic treatments ? I could be wrong though

as for Audyssey app it is dire trying to use this even on a large tablet , they need to up their game and provide a full pc version , some owners have tried using Ratsbuddy program to fine tune the files it creates but i havent heard any positive results from that , in fact the chap who sold me my 8802a upgraded to an 8805 primarily for the app and felt rather robbed by the entire process given both units sound essentially the same he quickly returned it and went on a different path feeling Dirac live is a far better option .

on the latest podcast i see Sound united have intimated they may take on Dirac for some future high end units , Ive all ways been frustrated with Audyssey for the simple fact I cannot manually tweak it even though i have the app and used it on previous Denon it just dose not cut the mustard they may as well have added a bass / treble control on each channel .
 
Good news for anyone looking to upgrade 12.17 to EDGE they are on sale for 590 euro XTZ Webshop (EU) , standard 12.17 tend to sell for £300 so its a cheaper option than the SA 1 upgrade plate
 
Good news for anyone looking to upgrade 12.17 to EDGE they are on sale for 590 euro XTZ Webshop (EU) , standard 12.17 tend to sell for £300 so its a cheaper option than the SA 1 upgrade plate

does anyone buy used 12.17 (non edge version)?
 
That’s a genuine question, btw, if someone was interested in a non edge 12.17 I’d sell mine to get another edge. My standard 12.17 has been faultless.

there does seem to be a difference of opinion whether all standard 12.17 amps will eventually fail.
 
does anyone buy used 12.17 (non edge version)?
well i bought one as a stop gap whilst waiting for a second edge to appear , I then advertised it and sold it within 15 mins of posting the add so yes
 
well i bought one as a stop gap whilst waiting for a second edge to appear , I then advertised it and sold it within 15 mins of posting the add so yes

OK that’s good to know. If they get them back in stock I’ll give that a go - just to have 2 the same and let my OCD calm down :rotfl:
 
OK that’s good to know. If they get them back in stock I’ll give that a go - just to have 2 the same and let my OCD calm down :rotfl:
Looks like you'd need to place a pre order to get the sale price not sure how that's going to work with the current waves of new break outs and increased lock downs world wide
 
Hi all,

Anyone running dual 12.17 edge’s with an Audyssey equipped AVR? Would like to hear of experiences integrating dual subs into a system with XT32 and SubEQ HT specifically.

Currently running a single 12.17 Edge, but thinking about getting a 2nd. Reason I’m asking this is because I had dual BK XXLS400’s before, but Audyssey for some reason always had them out of phase after calibration.. The only change I make post-cal is changing the crossover to 80hz(Audyssey sets my bookshelves to 40Hz..) Measuring the SPL at the crossover freq of 80hz, with the phase dial left on 0, did not result in the highest SPL. It was only at something like 90deg phase(12 o’clock) on the dial where it was ‘locked in’.

So, has anyone running duals with Audyssey XT32 experienced something similar, where you had to manually set the phase post-cal?

Thanks
 
Hi all,

Anyone running dual 12.17 edge’s with an Audyssey equipped AVR? Would like to hear of experiences integrating dual subs into a system with XT32 and SubEQ HT specifically.

So, has anyone running duals with Audyssey XT32 experienced something similar, where you had to manually set the phase post-cal?

Thanks
All good here, 2x 12.17 edges via the denon 7200, no phase errors, I think it said to turn them down a bit at the start but all came out OK in the end (so powerfull 😎)
 
All good here, 2x 12.17 edges via the denon 7200, no phase errors, I think it said to turn them down a bit at the start but all came out OK in the end (so powerfull 😎)

Thanks, just to be clear though, Audyssey didn’t throw a phase error as such(as it does with the main channels if pos and neg are wired incorrectly) but rather that I had to manually ‘dial in’ the phase to get the smoothest response at the crossover frequency. Would have just expected SubEQ HT to take care of that. Anyone else seen that behaviour?

I’m wondering whether it’s due to changing the crossover set by Audyssey, from 40hz to 80hz. And that perhaps the subs ARE in phase at that crossover setting? Hmm, never measured the response with the XO Audyssey set at 40hz though..

Edit: @pj - did you block the ports before cal or leave them in the desired tuning position(i.e. left port open etc) Cheers
 
Thanks, just to be clear though, Audyssey didn’t throw a phase error as such(as it does with the main channels if pos and neg are wired incorrectly) but rather that I had to manually ‘dial in’ the phase to get the smoothest response at the crossover frequency. Would have just expected SubEQ HT to take care of that. Anyone else seen that behaviour?

I’m wondering whether it’s due to changing the crossover set by Audyssey, from 40hz to 80hz. And that perhaps the subs ARE in phase at that crossover setting? Hmm, never measured the response with the XO Audyssey set at 40hz though..

Edit: @pj - did you block the ports before cal or leave them in the desired tuning position(i.e. left port open etc) Cheers
I have all the same problems that you describe my 2 x 12.17 edge are equidistant and sit just behind my M6 L/R Im very very limited for sub placement so need to work around this , Audyssey also sets my fronts to 40hz I change this to 90hz the other weird thing is that Audyssey sets my subs to completely different distances from each other say one might be around 6m and the other at 11 Ive found over the years 7.26m works best so i change them both to that setting even though they are physically at 4.5 m , as for using Audyssey I currently run left port open on reference and everything switched off peq filters etc , set the phase to zero and all ways leave your sub x over at 120hz , once you've done your sweeps there is a fair bit of things to change , starting with your phase i switch to stereo and pop in some bass heavy music of choice my first go to is Eurythmics g hits because this is recorded at 6db lower than modern recordings , whilst setting your phase you are not listening for the loudest response , you need to get your ears close up between your front and sub adjust from zero to 180 deg you will hear the bass move to and from the sub to the main and once you hear this you then fine tune so that it sounds like you are getting a 50/50 mix of where your bass is at , next thing i do is pop in and see where Audyssey has set my sub levels usually about -9db I change this to -11 go to Audyssey settings dynamic eq on ref 0db dynamic volume light and lfc off, then listen to various recordings namely Dire straights and Dido no angel this helps me adjust stereo seperation and staging , if one side sounds weak i up that sub very slightly , continue tweaking and revert to Eurythmics and finally Pink Floyd Earls court 1980-81 live if all sounds good then were banging , final step I put in Fury and listen to trim levels on Blu-ray If the edges don't rumble me out the seat at the in coming scene then i repeat the above :rotfl: must confess though I am moving into the dark side of the moon just bought a minidsp ddrc-88ab and going to try this with Dirac live so things will definitely change wish me luck
 
I have all the same problems that you describe my 2 x 12.17 edge are equidistant and sit just behind my M6 L/R Im very very limited for sub placement so need to work around this , Audyssey also sets my fronts to 40hz I change this to 90hz the other weird thing is that Audyssey sets my subs to completely different distances from each other say one might be around 6m and the other at 11 Ive found over the years 7.26m works best so i change them both to that setting even though they are physically at 4.5 m , as for using Audyssey I currently run left port open on reference and everything switched off peq filters etc , set the phase to zero and all ways leave your sub x over at 120hz , once you've done your sweeps there is a fair bit of things to change , starting with your phase i switch to stereo and pop in some bass heavy music of choice my first go to is Eurythmics g hits because this is recorded at 6db lower than modern recordings , whilst setting your phase you are not listening for the loudest response , you need to get your ears close up between your front and sub adjust from zero to 180 deg you will hear the bass move to and from the sub to the main and once you hear this you then fine tune so that it sounds like you are getting a 50/50 mix of where your bass is at , next thing i do is pop in and see where Audyssey has set my sub levels usually about -9db I change this to -11 go to Audyssey settings dynamic eq on ref 0db dynamic volume light and lfc off, then listen to various recordings namely Dire straights and Dido no angel this helps me adjust stereo seperation and staging , if one side sounds weak i up that sub very slightly , continue tweaking and revert to Eurythmics and finally Pink Floyd Earls court 1980-81 live if all sounds good then were banging , final step I put in Fury and listen to trim levels on Blu-ray If the edges don't rumble me out the seat at the in coming scene then i repeat the above :rotfl: must confess though I am moving into the dark side of the moon just bought a minidsp ddrc-88ab and going to try this with Dirac live so things will definitely change wish me luck

Thanks for that, glad to hear I’m not the only one. Yeah I calibrate it exactly like that, port open and all eq’s off and LPF bypassed. The distance setting is hardly ever accurate, as it’s actually more of a delay setting, where subs with DSP’s always being ‘further away’ - it’s how the AVR represents the delay that’s introduced by signal processing. Other factors like phase shift(On ported subs) can also have an influence afaik.

Toying with the idea of getting a 2nd 12.17 as I said, so just wanted to hear some experiences re: integration. So thanks again :smashin:

I have an anti-mode, but never dabbled with a mini-dsp. I hear they are fantastic, but a bit of a learning curve to it.

As an aside, how often do you get port chuffing on yours? (Not talking about Edge of Tomorrow intro, forget that haha.) but rather with general movie watching and not cherry picked torture tests for example.

Cheers!
 
to be honest I cant say ive ever noticed that problem , I tend to run them just slightly above where Audyssey sets the level during set up but i only increase the volume relative to improving the stereo image for music , my right all ways needs slightly more volume due to my room , it could just be im lucky with placement ?
 
I read in reddit that this sub doesn't do well below 30Hz. Is this correct?
 
I read in reddit that this sub doesn't do well below 30Hz. Is this correct?

The reddit story i think he commented about port noise and said he was playing that silly movie intro Edge of tomorrow which is not friendly to large 3k£ ported subs either cause there is 10hz stuff. Also no output under 30hz sounds very much like placement issue as people have posted graphs which are showing it has good output down to 20hz or lower when everything is optimized.

@akk0091 dual 12.17 Edge:

f8258604-8d87-419f-bf6c-fca15ad88158-jpeg.1324078



Here is Monolith at front of room and 12.17 Edge by the couch. See how much the placement matters and the benefits of dual woofers comes quite clear. @John24ssj

subs-individually-png.1329816


This is the combined response.

subs-combined-png.1329817
 
Yep complete agree with @Gasp3621 the placement is the key for example here is 12.17 edge at 4 different locations:
XTZ Locations.png


As you can see in Location 4 the 30Hz below is non existant but in other locations it can happily go to 17Hz but then you lose output elsewhere.

Subwoofer is at complete mercy of your room and room modes, placement is the key.
 
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no sub 30hz complaints here, but i'm sure the building might have a few :D begining of eot is insane (no idea what the mixer was thinking, probably on the SVS payroll lol 😉)but it can handle it perfectly (once tweaked and rew'd etc)
 
XTZ 15.17 Edge 😎

15.17P_Front.jpg




Construction Type 15″ active hybrid subwoofer (Bassreflex / Sealed)
Woofer driver 1 x 380 mm (15″) High-Speed Ultra-Long-Stroke driver (Polymer reinforced cotton)
Amplifier 1 x High-End Class-D Amplifier (SA-1)
Frequency Response 19 – 180 Hz (+/- 3dB)
Power 1000 W RMS, Class-D, ICEpower
Power Consumption. 0.17 W / 22 W (standby / switched on)
Phase Variable 0 – 180°
Crossover frequency Variable 40 – 160Hz, Bypass
Parametric EQ (PEQ) 40 – 160 Hz
Connections 2 x RCA, XLR, XLR-Passthrough
Settings Bassreflex / Sealed (2 ports), 3 x EQ (REF, EQ1, EQ2), PEQ-Filter
Cover Black
Feet 4 x rubber spikes (M6 thread)
Colour Matte black
Dimensions 505x450x570 mm
 
XTZ 15.17 Edge 😎





Construction Type 15″ active hybrid subwoofer (Bassreflex / Sealed)
Woofer driver 1 x 380 mm (15″) High-Speed Ultra-Long-Stroke driver (Polymer reinforced cotton)
Amplifier 1 x High-End Class-D Amplifier (SA-1)
Frequency Response 19 – 180 Hz (+/- 3dB)
Power 1000 W RMS, Class-D, ICEpower
Power Consumption. 0.17 W / 22 W (standby / switched on)
Phase Variable 0 – 180°
Crossover frequency Variable 40 – 160Hz, Bypass
Parametric EQ (PEQ) 40 – 160 Hz
Connections 2 x RCA, XLR, XLR-Passthrough
Settings Bassreflex / Sealed (2 ports), 3 x EQ (REF, EQ1, EQ2), PEQ-Filter
Cover Black
Feet 4 x rubber spikes (M6 thread)
Colour Matte black
Dimensions 505x450x570 mm

Looks interesting :)
 
Whaat!? That looks tasty indeed. Don’t see it on the XTZ Europe website yet though. Will keep a close eye on this.
 
Whaat!? That looks tasty indeed. Don’t see it on the XTZ Europe website yet though. Will keep a close eye on this.

It could be built by order like these two models which are available already, but not much marketed. Sealed dual opposite and sealed wide low box with dual drivers.

 
Hmm I wish I hadn't seen your post @Gasp3621 now I want one but then again I am quite happy with my Monolith plus and 12.17 edge setup.
Will not be doing upgrades for couple of years at least!
 

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