XS32 - DVD-R space needed for dubbing

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by jon99, Jan 14, 2005.

  1. jon99

    jon99
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    Hi

    I wonder if anyone can help on a problem I had this afternoon.
    I was attempting to dub 2hrs 14mins of HDD recording onto a DVD-R.
    I set the tosh to record on manual at a sample rate of 3.8 which according to the tosh settings said would allow up to 2hrs 19mins on the DVD-R.
    However, it wouldn't let me do it, giving me a message to the effect that the DVD-R did not have enough room :confused:
    Does anyone know what system overhead there is (in terms of time) on a recording? I tried various other setting but all to the same effect.
    I have previously recorded up to 2hrs without problem.
    To resolve the problem today I split my recording over two DVD-Rs. But as this is just the start of a complete recording I will now end up using 6 DVDs in place of the hoped for 3 :mad:
    All advice will be welcome.
    Thanks
    John
     
  2. jon99

    jon99
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    Hi
    As I got zero replies to this I have bumped it up the list. Can anyone help?
    Thanks
    Jon
     
  3. SDHoward

    SDHoward
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    Have you tried it on another recording of the same length and bit rate. It should work (it has for me). I have a feeling the tosh uses a variable bitrate so maybe it was a very busy recording and somehow went over....
    also have you checked the compatibility mode etc..
     
  4. davet010

    davet010
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    Should have worked - I get 2hr 3m onto a DVD-R at a bitrate of 4.2, and there is still a little room to spare.

    Did you use the 'create DVD-R' option in the edit menu ?
     
  5. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    The error message is confusing… but it is true that if you use a rate of 3.8, you can’t high speed dub to DVD-R. (If the rate is between 3.0 and 3.8, it needs to re-encode to half resolution). The manual doesn’t specifically say half resolution, but does say that it will need to re-encode.

    Try a rate conversion dub.

    If possible, you should use a rate of 4.0 or above, then you can do high speed dub to DVD-R. In this case, your 2 hours 14 would fit with a rate of 4.0.

    Mark
     
  6. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    A clarification:

    You can’t do a high speed dub with a rate between 3.0 and 3.8, unless you recorded it with DVD compatible mode on. (In which case it would have been recorded in half resolution).

    Mark
     
  7. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    Just noticed this, on page 122 of the manual (Creating a DVD-Video using DVD-R/RW)

    Preparation
    • Record contents which you want to copy to DVD-R/RW to make DVD-Video, to the HDD with the following settings:
    - “DVD compatible mode” ( page 162): “On (Mode I)” or “On (Mode II)”.
    - Bit rate of 4.0 or more.


    Mark
     
  8. jon99

    jon99
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    Mark
    Thanks very much for your reply. I think you've hit the nail I'll try it again avoiding the dubbing menu.
    regards
    John
     
  9. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    What the Toshiba engineer told me about this Mode I or II thing was that if it applies and you pick the wrong one, you'll know as you'll get the wrong language (e.g. French).

    But again, I don't think our Nicam broadcasts here work that way.

    More critical is the 4.0 bitrate thing.

    Mark
     
  10. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    I know I've been going on about this, but I'm curious and trying to understand this stuff about half resolution and different cutoffs depending on if it is “compatible mode” or not.

    To recap the known facts: The XS32 produces a better picture (believe higher resolution) for rates of 3.0 to 3.8 if “compatible mode” is off. But if so, these can’t be dubbed directly to –R/-RW. Why?

    Now I’m pretty sure that 4.0 and above is full resolution regardless (this matches Rasczak saying it supports about 2:20 at full resolution.) And below 3.0 is half resolution. But what is happening in-between, and how does it relate to compatible mode?

    I have modified my theory on this. I’ve learned that in VR mode (i.e., not DVD-Video compatible), there are other resolutions, which can be supported: i.e. ones in-between full and half. These resolutions are not supported (i.e. not compatible) with DVD-Video, but are fine for DVD-VR.

    So I think that in this 3.0 to 3.8 range, in VR (to RAM or HDD) it is using some “in-between” resolution – something more than half but less than full. If you record/dub to –R/-RW, or record with compatible=on, then it uses half resolution in this range (and lower quality).

    I don’t have a PC drive that can read RAM discs… otherwise I could take a look at these VR recordings in the 3.0 to 3.8 range and see what resolution it is using to confirm my theory.

    It also looks like the Pioneer may do something similar. The Pioneer (520) manual doesn’t talk about bitrates, but it talks about manual modes (which I think map to a bit rate) and times. It has a table, where it shows for each level, what time recording you get in VR mode vs. Video mode. It shows points where there is a noticeable change in quality, and those points are different for VR or Video mode….

    Mark
     
  11. stiles

    stiles
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    I'm pretty sure there is a special resolution with vr mode. On my D-R2, wich should work like the xs32 without HD, the picture is not the same at 3.0 in vr mode and video mode. In vr mode there are vertical lines across the screen that I don't have at 2.8 or even in video mode at 3.0. The quality seems to be much better in video mode at 3.0.
     
  12. jon99

    jon99
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    Further to Marks comments on the mode I or II can you spread some light for me about DVD-VR, DVD-RAM, DVD-Video formats?

    I have looked through the manual on my XS32 but I could find no mention of DVD-VR and no explanation of the other two?

    I was interested because I was going to buy some bargain disks that calimed compatibilty with DVD-VR but the advert said to check whether the recorder supported DVD-VR. As I couldn't find it mentioned i bought data greys instead.

    Ant pointers to where I can read up on these things woul be a great help.

    Cheers

    John
     
  13. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    Take a look at Rasczak's excellent FAQ

    http://www.btinternet.com/~james_lancaster/whichdvd.HTML

    His key points being:

    "- A DVD recorder when recording to DVD-RAM will always use VR mode
    - A DVD recorder when recording to DVD-R will always use Video mode
    - A DVD recorder when recording to DVD-RW will record to either Video or VR mode depending which is set before the recording is made.
    - A DVD recorder when recording to DVD+RW or DVD+R will always use Video mode "



    Mark
     
  14. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    This bit about the discs being VR compatible is junk I believe... what kind of disc was it? All -RW can be written in VR if the recorder supports it. And all RAM discs are only VR.

    The XS32 writes to RAM (VR by defintion). For -RW, it only supports video mode. But a -RW disc is a -RW disc.

    Now if it is a cheap -RW disc it might not work on the XS32, as it is fussy about what it accepts.... but if it rejects it it is nothing to do with VR.

    Mark
     
  15. jon99

    jon99
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    Thanks Mark. I cannot remember which disks they were - they were on Ebay and auction finished sometime ago.
    Do you have any links or details of sources where I can read up about DVD's and their various formats and etc.

    Regards

    John
     
  16. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    John,

    As I said, Take a look at Rasczak's excellent FAQ

    http://www.btinternet.com/~james_la...r/whichdvd.HTML


    If you want more details about DVD technology, another good link to try is:
    http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html

    It will keep you busy for a while....

    Mark
     
  17. jon99

    jon99
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    Thanks
    John
     
  18. El_JimBob

    El_JimBob
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    I did the very thing just the other day - TMPGEnc reported the file as having a 'non-standard' rez of 400x576, or something like that. Either way, the software refused to have anything to do with the programme i'd recorded on the Tosh (but only after i'd spent half an hour editing chapters and menu screens DOH!)
     

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