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XP or SP Any difference for DV to DVD recording?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by pete2222, May 1, 2005.

  1. pete2222

    pete2222
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    Hi

    I have just started transfering my collection of miniDV recordings onto DVD using a panasonic DMRE65. I want the best quality possible, and want to keep them permanently, but can anyone advise whether I will get worthwhile better picture quality using the XP mode rather than the SP mode. The miniDV tapes were all recorded in SP mode originally.

    Thanks for your help
     
  2. PANASONIC MAN

    PANASONIC MAN
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    its all down to bitrate.
    XP mode only gives you 1 hour on a disc but it is in a higher bitrate, therefore better and smoother picture.

    you can always put the recording in fr mode, just tell the recorder how long your recording is.
     
  3. Steve N

    Steve N
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    You will not notice any difference.
    As you originally recorded in SP you cannot "upgrade" the quality anyway.
    I would recommend that you always use SP quality.
    To assess the difference between XP and SP I experimented at length, recording test cards etc. and then checking at super zoom in freeze frame and any other way you can think of.
    My old DMRE-100, (now have the 500), had a bitrate readout so I knew that XP was being recorded at twice the bitrate of SP. This gave a sort of psychological confidence but in reality any difference is imperceptible to the human eye.
    I suggest you do some tests yourself and perhaps ask someone else, who doesn't know what recordings are in what quality and therefore unbiased, to give their opinion.
     
  4. pete2222

    pete2222
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    Well, thanks for your comments, I have now tried recording the same DV clip on both, and I can't myself see the difference, even on my 44inch TV. Reassuringly, They both look as good as the original miniDV tape! I guess the bottom line for me is that this is not something I'm going to have to lose any sleep over.
     
  5. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    I'm not surprised you can't see the difference, but it isn't true that as you recorded in SP there is no benifit in using a higher rate. "SP" on a DV tape is much less compressed than any DVD - it is a totally different system. In fact, a 1 hour DV tape is about 13 GB in size.

    What is true is if you have a DVD recording at SP (or any rate), there is no point to re-encode it at a higher rate.

    For DV, I'd always use the highest rate you can.

    Mark
     
  6. David

    David
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    I edit quite a lot of dv camcorder tapes on my computer and can certainly tell the difference with TMPGenc between 6000 and 8000 kbps. Haven't tried it on my new ES10 yet though. Try both settings on a couple of DVDRW disks and you'll soon know. ;)
     
  7. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    I agree, if you know what to look for you should be able to tell the difference - especially if the DV was using a DV-in/I-link/Firewire connection (which as we are talking about a E65, I assume that was used).

    Of course if one used a composite input to record the DV it may not be noticable, as the damage would have been done at that point.

    Mark
     
  8. Stuart P

    Stuart P
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    am i assuming right that if dubbing vhs to hdd or dvd then also use the highest setting? also if transferring from vhs > hdd (to edit) & then onto dvd will there be any loss when going from hdd > dvd?
     
  9. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    Well, sort of...

    There is a big difference between DV and VHS. DV is a very high quality input, so you want to use a reasonably high rate (quality setting) to preserve it.

    VHS is much lower quality. Even so, a higher rate will do a better job at not making the quality worse than a low rate. If you use a very low rate, you are making a low quality copy of a low quality input, so the net result is even worse. But as the input is low quality, you are unlikely to see the difference between a very high rate/setting and a more middle one (like "SP").

    For VHS, if you stick with a SP type of setting (2 hours), you should be fine. Anything higher quality is probably overkill. You could go a bit lower on the quality, though I'd stick with a rate/setting which uses full resolution (this depends on the recorder).

    Once you have the recording on your HDD, you should use high speed dubbing to go copy to DVD, in which case there will be no quality loss. It is just copying the parts from the HDD you want exactly, bit for bit.

    Mark
     
  10. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    I found my dv tapes are about 62 minutes long, and therefore won't fit onto 1 dvd at xp quality. I usually end up editing the hard disk copy to remove a couple of minutes or have to use FR to save it all.
     
  11. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    One more thing about DV quality settings – there is only one quality setting for DV. You can’t change the bitrate/compression; it is standard and done in the camcorder. In terms of bitrate, it is very roughly 3 times more than a DVD at highest (XP) quality. It’s a totally different compression method, so this doesn’t mean it is 3 times better, but it is very high quality.

    The 2 modes on the camcorder, SP and LP, the data being recorded is identical. It is just that LP physically crams more data on a single tape (90+ mins vs 60+). It does this by using a smaller track pitch and track width on the tape. Which leaves less room for error, so the tape is more likely to fail, especially if recorded on one camcorder and played on another. But if it works, the data and picture quality you get will be identical between SP and LP.

    And as I said before, this SP/LP has nothing to do with SP or LP settings on a DVD recorder.

    Mark
     
  12. Benfica

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    I have been always able to dub (using High Speed Copy) at XP quality (called FINE in my pioneer recorder) to DVD without removing any bits (1h02m30s of video at FINE quality to be more precise).

    I've done that in more then 25 miniDV tape conversions to DVD, using FINE mode.

    HTH
     
  13. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    With VBR, the timings are all approximate – they can vary a bit depending on the complexity of the footage. Pioneer “Fine” is quoted as 61 minutes; as is the max rate (9.2) on the Tosh XS32. But it could possibly fit a bit more, especially if some of it was blank….

    Mark
     
  14. Benfica

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    Marke,

    None of it was blank. I use all space availbale in a miniDV tape and I copy it all to DVD.

    HTH
     

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