XLS200 Installation Help

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by i240 Dan, Sep 13, 2007.

  1. i240 Dan

    i240 Dan
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    I have just ordered an XSL200 FF sub, which will hopefully be with me early next week and am really stuck on the best way to wire it up to my amp, .

    I’ve got a JVC RX-E100RSL surround amp but only use the front speakers in stereo mode as I share my house and it’s in my 8 by 10.5 foot room.

    I have read a number of threads on here about setup but am still confused.

    I went into Sound and Vision in Manchester to get some advice and they told me to wire up the neutrik to the centre speaker out and the low level phono to my sub out.

    Firstly there are only two connections on my centre out and the neutrik will need three and I’m only using my front speakers not a surround setup.

    I have read the BK online manual which states that the nutrik is optional. It also states that using it effectively bi-wires your sub to your amp. Does this mean that by connecting the neutrik to the left and right channels you are bi-wiring the high level connection?
    Or does it mean that by using the high and low level inputs you are bi-wiring the sub?

    If it will not cause my sub any harm then I will use both connections.

    Dan
     
  2. Sniper

    Sniper
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    Hi - if you're using the amp as a stereo amp (and disregarding the surround modes) then you could connect the neutrik to the left & right speaker outs from you amp (forget about the biwiring definition - that's really not a good description of what would be going on!).

    On the other hand - you still could connect your amp to the SUB (.1/lfe/sw) preout on the amp, set all the missing speakers to OFF, and set a crossover on your amp (80hz is a good start) - that way any missing speaker will be redirected to your fronts, and the sub will take over any sound under 80hz (or kinda)!
     
  3. i240 Dan

    i240 Dan
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    By "you still could".

    Do you mean as well as the neutrik or instead of.

    Thanks

    Daniel
     
  4. Sniper

    Sniper
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    I actually meant instead of.

    A lot of folks connect them both ways (hi & low at the same time). Now (apart from my opinion on the matter) in your case, as you'll be using fronts all the time (right?), I can't see the advantage of having the sub connected both ways - try both & see which one you prefer, and leave that one connected.

    So what fronts are you running?
     
  5. binbag

    binbag
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    I tried both ways when I had an XLS200 and I can say that it did my sub no harm. The only way you'll know is by trying all methods and seeing which you prefer best.

    I suspect that positioning will be more important to performance than connection and the bass management of your amp in your preferred output mode ( i.e. a lot of amps won't do .1 in 'pure direct stereo' ) will have a say in it too.

    The one thing I found using both was the difference between the settings on the BK for both inputs was greater than the reward for using the Hi level so I ended up using just using the low level on the subs xover for everything.
     
  6. i240 Dan

    i240 Dan
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    So really the answer is that there is no benefit using both connections on the same amp. Really the two connections are their to allow you to hook the sub up to two amps, i.e. DVD and HiFi.

    Although it will not do the sub any harm from what I understand, I can see how using both inputs from the same amp could have a negative impact as you are utilising two seperate filters, one in your amp and one in your sub.#

    Good point Binbag about the sub out on my amp not working at all unless it's in 5.1 surround setting and not stereo. But the amp does have a seperate Sub on Off setting so might still work.

    I think I'll try both connections, have a play and see what I prefer. I'm not keen on having both connections from one amp so I expect I'll end up using the neutrik, as like you say Sniper I will be mainly using the sub for listeneing to music.

    My speakers are just a pair of bookshelf Gale Gold Monitors.

    My current system is fairly small as I only have limited space but have been pining for a sub for a couple of years. I have one in my car and find I enjoy listeneing to my music a lot more when I have the extra punch.
    I've tried surround setups in my bedroom before but they don't really have the desired effect asy your pretty close to all the speakers and you can never get them where you want.

    My plan is to get a house next year and then I can think about upgrading my amp, getting a set of nice floor standers and centre. Then use the Gale speakers as rears. I figured if I was going to get a sub I might as well get a good one now rather than have to upgrade in a year or so.

    I was looking for a small sub as will need to keep it under my bed or desk for now. But one that is worth spending money on, so the XLS200 seemed perfect.

    Thanks for the advice

    Dan
     
  7. Sniper

    Sniper
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    I like the advantages that bass management provides - and as I see it you should use the low-level option too.

    You have these speakers right?

    If that's the case - they claim 60hz to 20khz range ... by using the sub on low-level (pre-out/.1/lfe/whathaveyou), with you fronts set to SMALL, you'll be doing your amp, your speakers & your ears (one hopes) a favour. With the cross over set to 80hz, (and a probable 12db roll-off), you'll be supplying the speakers just the freq. range they where designed (or happen too!) reproduce - by not sending anything lower you'll clear up your mid-range.

    A nice side effect is that the amp will not be amplifiing current hungry low fequencies - this further enchances the sound above the crossover!
     
  8. i240 Dan

    i240 Dan
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    So you agree with Binbag that I should use the LFE amp out if possible and leave the neutrik, Sniper?

    Yes those are the speakers I have.

    I've just got out the manual for my amp and it says that as long as I have the sub out set to ON I can set the front speakers to small, but without the sub out on I can only set them to large.

    I have three crossover frequency options which are 80Hz, 100Hz or 120Hz, it suggests to set for 8, 10, 12cm cone sizes respectively.

    I can also adjust the sub output level, -10 to +10. I presume this has the same effect as adjusting the gain on the sub panel.

    There is also a Low Frequency Effect Attenuator adjustment which it states is for use if the bass sounds distorted when using dolby digital or DTS. It has two settings, normal (0dB), or -10dB.

    The amp also has the usual treble, bass and bass boost adjustments which I presume will apply to all speakers so should just be left neutral.

    Do you have any suggestions for a good setup?

    p.s. whats a "12dB roll-off"?

    Thanks

    Dan
     
  9. Sniper

    Sniper
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    Yep! I agree.

    It's normal that you're not allowed to set the speakers to small with the sub off - that would mean that frequencies below your crossover are not reproduced by any speaker! Not good!

    The 8,10,12cm being mapped to 80,100,120hz is an interesting suggestion - in real life thou' this will depend on the performace of both your speakers & your sub - which isn't solely related to their size!

    As always you'll need to setup your sub to match your system - I would suggest that you start with all gain settings set to 0db on the amp, and midway on the sub. Then tune/fine-tune from there!

    12db rolloff - I was refering to the crossover on your amp (and on anything really) - crossovers (apart from some active ones) are not brick walls ... it's not like 81hz will go to your speakers only and 79 to your sub only - if that where the case good integration would take a lot of time. Normally a 12db rolloff per octave is applied (sometimes 24) - so if you set 80hz cross over on the amp, the 40hz going to your amp will be 12db lower than 80hz.
     
  10. i240 Dan

    i240 Dan
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    Thanks for the help Sniper.

    When the sub arrives I'll set the cross over to 80Hz, leave the gain on the amp at neutral (as it's probably a finer adjustment on the sub). Turn the sub out ON and the fronts to small.

    Then like you say I'll just go from there, the XLS200 manual has what seems to be a good setup guide advising the same as you have, start wil the gain on the sub at Min and turn up untill the bass matches the speakers then adjust the frequency on the sub to meet the lowest notes from the speakers.

    Might take a bit of playing arround with but I suppose thats all part of the fun. :D

    Thanks again for the help Sniper and you too Binbag

    I'll let you know how I get on when the sub arrives, hopefully the start of next week.

    Dan
     
  11. i240 Dan

    i240 Dan
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    Finally got my XLS200 last week after 25 days.

    It seems to have been worth the wait.

    Having never had a home sub before I didn't really know what to expect.
    I connected the sub as discussed with a few people on here using the Sub put on my JVC surround amp using the phono lead to the sub.

    I started off by playing music through it from my pc and was not overly impressed. Turns out the track I was playing just wasn't very base heavy. Tried some sub test tones from youtube videos and my windows nearly went through as I'd turned the gain right up when trying my music. :eek:

    Not tried it with many movies yet but found that it was set a bit high for film use after I'd been using it with my stereo.

    The more I get used to it the more I'm turning it down. Every so often I switch it off just to remind myself how c**p it sounds without it on. It's funny how when you first get it out of the box you want to hear the base tear your house down but it sounds much better when it's just supporting the speakers.

    It's interesting how it sounds as if the base is coming from my bookshelf speakers but is actually coming from the sub. Suppose it's my mind playing tricks as it's focussing on the sound it can heard rather than feel.

    The only problem I seem to be having is that there is a lot of background noise coming from my amp. I have always noticed a humming from my speakers when the amp is on and I'm not playing anything. This seems to be much louder from the sub presumably due to it's own amplification and that it is playing the low distortion at frequencies the speakers couldn't reach.

    I have turned the amp sub out up to +10 and turned the sub gain dial down which has reduced the noise slightly but not completely. It is quite anoying between tracks or quiet points in films when you can hear the buzzing from the amp.

    Is this down to my amp being relatively cheap or possibly cable interfierance?
    I have my DVD player connected using scart and my pc through aux in phono ports both seem to produce the feedback. Actually I'll have to check if it happens even with the inputs disconnected, meaning its just the amp generating the noise.

    Dan
     
  12. sdb123

    sdb123
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    If I were you I'd change the amp's sub setting to 0db and adjust the gain on the sub. I'd be surprised if you needed to go past 11/2 o'clock on the gain dial.

    Have you tried the sub in different locations in the room?
     
  13. i240 Dan

    i240 Dan
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    I don't really have an option about position. It has to live under my bed for now as it's in my room and I want to have the dials accesible so it can't really go much further towards the corner.

    I currently have it set at +10 on my amp as this doesn't effect the noise I mentioned. The level of the noise is not effected by the amp volume either. If the volume is above 0 then the noise can be heard. If I turn the amp right up i I begin to hear a similar noise from the speakers as well but only at almost full volume on the amp.

    If I set the amp sub out volume to 0 and turn up the sub gain dial then the noise volume increases.

    The sub gain dial is set at about 2pm with the sub out on +10 on the amp.

    This seems about right, not in your face but when I put something basy on I get a nice kick.

    I've not had a good chance to really get the volume up on my amp as I share my house with others so I'll have to wait till they are all out. It may well be over the top when I turn the system up loud.

    Is it possible to get a cheap sound meter to try and work out what sort of volumes my sub is putting out and help set it up? Or are ones that work very expensive.

    I'm worried now about over driving my sub as I was reading about some newbie like myself over driving his Monolith on here today. If he can over drive that then I'm sure I could do the same with my XLS200. Do they not have some sort of safety cut out mechanism.

    Not sure how my room will effect the sound. My rooms about 8ft by 11ft, or 16ft if you include the pc room nest to mine which only have a wooden wall divide. If you include the pc room then all four walls are two foot thick stone as I live in a cottage. So should really make a nice solid box but I am on the first floor with wooden floor boards beneath my carpet.

    Dan
     
  14. sdb123

    sdb123
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    Seriously, have a play around with different setings. +10 on the amp and 2 o'clock on the gain dial is OTT in my book.
     

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