XE1 DD+ Dropouts (Except Warner HD-DVDs)

bonoman

Standard Member
I bought a Pioneer SC-LX81 this week. All good with my Blu Rays playing from either the PS3 or Panasonic BD35. However I just upgraded the firmware on my XE-1 from 2.8 to 4.0. I'm getting dropouts when DD+ soundtracks are playing. I get dropouts regularly - approx every 1mins & 33 secs. Noticed it when I put in Transformers HD-DVD, also just tested it with Face Off. The DTS soundtrack on Face Off plays fine from the XE-1 into the SC-LX81, but when I switch to the DD+ soundtrack, I get the dropouts again!! If I set the XE-1 to output PCM, it plays fine.

Decided to go back to ver 2.7 but the dropouts with DD+ still occured. I then applied the Multiregion fw & tried again but that was so old the audio menu options didn't give the config to send bitstream over HDMI (think it was missing the direct audio option from the menu). I went back to version 2.7 again.

Next I tried to see if there was any pattern to the dropouts. Apart from happenning approx every 93 seconds, at this point after testing some of my HD-DVD collection, it doesn't appear to happen with Warner Titles! It happens with Universal & Paramount HD-DVDs but so far all the Warner HD-DVDs I tested had no dropouts over the same test period (10 mins into each movie). I tested Unforgiven, Terminator 3 & Troy Directots Cut. None had any audio dropouts when playing their DD+ soundtrack through my LX81! The Universal/Paramount Titles that I've tested that all have the dropout problem with their DD+ soundtracks include - Bourne Identity, Bourne Ultimatium, Transformers, Shooter, Face Off. Its a strange one. Anyone else seen this issue or know of a fix ?
 

bonoman

Standard Member
Was there any issue with the XE1 before you got the SC-LX81?
All the best.
Hi Kingfats,

Before I had the LX81 I had a Pioneer VSX-D2011. That model has no HDMI etc so I had the XE1 connected via coax cable & bitstreamed the core audio to the D2011. No dropouts ever experienced via that cable with core DD & DTS etc.. I guess I'll test it later by leaving the HDMI connected to the LX81 but I'll reconnect a coax & send the audio stream overe that & then config the LX81 to take the audio stream from the XE1 via the coax.

I can let you know how that goes. Its just strange that the Warner Titles appear to be fine. I'll dig up the rest of the Warners I have & try them today to see if that is 100% for them all.

Cheers
 

bonoman

Standard Member
Hi Kingfats (or anyone else that may know),

I've had my XE1 for over a year & found its a great performing piece of hardware in general but I've only been used to it being connected to my old receiver via coax & hearing the SD Audio Core formats.

As I've only just got my new Pioneer LX81, I'm not very familiar with the concept of configuring the XE1 to send uncompressed PCM. If I set the directaudio to off & force the HDMI to PCM on the XE1 audio setup menu, would I be correct in thinking I'm sending uncompressed HD audio streams to my LX81 via the HDMI cable ?

Just wondering if I can't get the DD+ dropouts issue fixed, that if I send the PCM instead that it would be comparable in quality & be proper multichannel etc..(or maybe I'm missing something ?)

Thanks for any advice...
 

kingfats

Distinguished Member
Just wondering if I can't get the DD+ dropouts issue fixed, that if I send the PCM instead that it would be comparable in quality & be proper multichannel etc..(or maybe I'm missing something ?)

Thanks for any advice...
Set the XE1 to PCM then DD+/TrueHD will be "fully" decoded by the player but DTS-MA your get the core.
The only issue are DD+ tracks though is that right? so you could whack it to PCM for DD+ and leave it to AUTO (Direct Audio > On) for bitstreaming TrueHD discs.
What do you think? :)
 

bonoman

Standard Member
Set the XE1 to PCM then DD+/TrueHD will be "fully" decoded by the player but DTS-MA your get the core.
The only issue are DD+ tracks though is that right? so you could whack it to PCM for DD+ and leave it to AUTO (Direct Audio > On) for bitstreaming TrueHD discs.
What do you think? :)
Exactly - its just the DD+ on non Warner HD-DVDs.

Thanks so much for all your help & the quick responses - really appreciate you taking the time.

I think I'll just go that PCM route as everything else with the XE1 & LX81 appears fine & I wan't to keep both etc..

Much obliged
 

Moray M

Standard Member
Re "The Universal/Paramount Titles that I've tested that all have the dropout problem with their DD+ soundtracks include - Bourne Identity, Bourne Ultimatium, Transformers, Shooter, Face Off."

I have just tested the first four of the discs you mentioned using an XE1 on firmware 4.0/T23T feeding DD+ bitstreams into an SC90. There was no problem with audio dropouts in this configuration. I know it's not your exact setup, but at least it shows bitstreamed DD+ to work between the XE1(fw4.0) and another recent model of pioneer amp, a fact that may be of some diagnostic help to you.
 

bonoman

Standard Member
Re "The Universal/Paramount Titles that I've tested that all have the dropout problem with their DD+ soundtracks include - Bourne Identity, Bourne Ultimatium, Transformers, Shooter, Face Off."

I have just tested the first four of the discs you mentioned using an XE1 on firmware 4.0/T23T feeding DD+ bitstreams into an SC90. There was no problem with audio dropouts in this configuration. I know it's not your exact setup, but at least it shows bitstreamed DD+ to work between the XE1(fw4.0) and another recent model of pioneer amp, a fact that may be of some diagnostic help to you.
Cheers Moray - appreciate you letting me know.

I did some further testing today with another film on HD-DVD (Chronicles of Riddick) & I think the problem is just with the English Language DD+ soundtrack as the Spanish & French Language DD+ soundtracks bitstreamed fine on that particular movie with no dropouts to the LX81!

I've email both Pioneer & Toshiba with the problem notification but don't really hold out much hope for any resolution. I'll probably just end up leaving things as they are as the LX81 is excellent with my Blu Rays (Panasonic BD35 & PS3) & at least for some of my HD-DVDs I'll be able to bitsteam any Dolby TrueHD or DTS soundtracks & just send PCM for the troublesome English DD+ soundtracks.

Thanks again for taking the time to test & let me know. I'm sure you're SC90 is a wonderful piece of hardware. I'm jealous!! :)
 

thenicklouse

Novice Member
watching transformers now No drop outs yet
 

thenicklouse

Novice Member

namuk

Distinguished Member
on the amp you will have audio sync correction well someware in settings have a look in manual ;)
also have you tryed swapping HDMI leads? this could also be the cause of the audio dropouts and what hdmi leads do you use? , this is the first i have heard the xe1 experiencing this audio dropout problem and have all the films you list ..
 

alfraser

Novice Member
Cheers Moray - appreciate you letting me know.

I did some further testing today with another film on HD-DVD (Chronicles of Riddick) & I think the problem is just with the English Language DD+ soundtrack as the Spanish & French Language DD+ soundtracks bitstreamed fine on that particular movie with no dropouts to the LX81!

I've email both Pioneer & Toshiba with the problem notification but don't really hold out much hope for any resolution. I'll probably just end up leaving things as they are as the LX81 is excellent with my Blu Rays (Panasonic BD35 & PS3) & at least for some of my HD-DVDs I'll be able to bitsteam any Dolby TrueHD or DTS soundtracks & just send PCM for the troublesome English DD+ soundtracks.

Thanks again for taking the time to test & let me know. I'm sure you're SC90 is a wonderful piece of hardware. I'm jealous!! :)

Intereting to hear if you get a response from Pioneer & Toshiba. Been having exactly the same problem with my Toshiba ep35 (v4.0 firmware) and Pioneer LX51 with DD+ soundtracks on Universal & Paramont HDDVDs. Combination works perfectly on True HD and PCM soundtracks and no problems with Blu-Ray.
 

bonoman

Standard Member
Intereting to hear if you get a response from Pioneer & Toshiba. Been having exactly the same problem with my Toshiba ep35 (v4.0 firmware) and Pioneer LX51 with DD+ soundtracks on Universal & Paramont HDDVDs. Combination works perfectly on True HD and PCM soundtracks and no problems with Blu-Ray.
Thanks for letting me know.

At this stage, I've ruled out cables too (eg tried couple of different ones / from different sources etc..), tried different HDMI Inputs on the LX81, tried different firmware on the XE1, ensured to do full power down & initialisation on the XE1 after each fw updated etc... I posted on the AVS Forums & saw that there were some other users in the USA who had Toshiba HD DVD players (EP35 equivalent & XA2 - XE1 equivalent) & experienced the same types of drop outs with their HD-DVD DD+ Soundtracks. It seems to be most common with the combination between the Tosh HD-DVD & Pioneer Receivers.

The fact that my Warner HD-DVDs play ok with their DD+ soundtracks seemed stange. I got info from an AVSForums board member who highlighted the fact that I wasn't aware of related to Warner HD DVD DD+ soundtracks. Apparently most of the Warner HD-DVD DD+ soundtracks are encoded at 640kbits (I think) whereas the Universal / Paramount are 1.5Mbps (I think). Just mentioning what was fed back to me - I don't know this for certain (& can't test it).

Maybe there is an issue with the Pioneer LX Series & high bit rate (higher than 640kbits) DD+ soundtracks ? I've no BluRays with DD+ soundtracks so can't test via those players into my LX81 unfortunately.

We need feedback from anyone who has XE1/EP35 with any recent LX Series Pioneer Receiver (51/71/81) & can test some bitstreamed DD+ over HDMI from the Tosh to the Pioneer..... Just to try see what we can rule out...

Thanks again for your information
 

bonoman

Standard Member
on the amp you will have audio sync correction well someware in settings have a look in manual ;)
also have you tryed swapping HDMI leads? this could also be the cause of the audio dropouts and what hdmi leads do you use? , this is the first i have heard the xe1 experiencing this audio dropout problem and have all the films you list ..
Thanks namuk.

I can confirm that I've tried different leads from one same source & one lead from a totally different source with no difference to the issue. I've tried different HDMI Inputs on the receiver to. Not sure about the audio sync correction on the amp - I know it has ability to delay the audio at various millisecond/frame settings to try match with picture if that is a problem but for me that's not the issue.

Much obliged again for your suggestions & for trying to help me.
 

bonoman

Standard Member

steVoid

Standard Member
Thanks namuk.

I've previously posted in the Toshiba Owners Forum, Pioneer Owners Forum & HD-DVD Players forum (just to try catch people in case they didn't view across the different sections). Today I sumitted a post in those forums to seek fellow forum members help with testing where they might have similar hardware etc..

Cheers
Hi bonoman

I am having the exactly same problem as you are.
I to am running a XE-1 through a LX81 and am constantly
having dropouts with DD+,everything else is fine.
I have tryed changing the settings on the XE-1 but nothing works,your right the problem is with universal films the one's i have tested are the thing,king kong,the game,van helsing and some others.
I think maybe it might be an issue with the LX81 but im not sure what it is.
If you have any news on the problem could you let me know.
Do you think that setting the XE-1 to PCM would be the same quality as DD+?

Regards ,
steVe:)
 

simonblue

Distinguished Member
Hi have played all these disc thought XE-1 my amp onkyo 906 with no aduio dropout,but had this problem with blu-ray player samsung 1400 and the onkyo 605 amp,tryed everything it was only after a samsung frimware update it stoped,samsung said it was the onkyo,onkyo said it was samsung:rotfl:,also my harry potter hd-dvd boxset usa wont lock on to DD-ture track,have to play it pcm:rotfl:
 

steVoid

Standard Member
Hi have played all these disc thought XE-1 my amp onkyo 906 with no aduio dropout,but had this problem with blu-ray player samsung 1400 and the onkyo 605 amp,tryed everything it was only after a samsung frimware update it stoped,samsung said it was the onkyo,onkyo said it was samsung:rotfl:,also my harry potter hd-dvd boxset usa wont lock on to DD-ture track,have to play it pcm:rotfl:

Do you think there is a difference in SQ between DD+ or PCM?

Thanks ,:)
 

bonoman

Standard Member
Hi Steve,

Sorry to hear you have the same issue. Neither manufacturer wanted to help me (& I sort of understand that even though I'd prefer it wasn't the case) as my XE-1 is out of warranty & Pioneer didn't seem interested in the HD-DVD format as its no longer a 'go forward' format etc..

There's some more feedback at this location just to give some more background.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/pioneer-owners-forum/927787-lx81-71-51-xe1-ep35-feedback-please.html


I put it down to technology / handshaking between a certain combination of devices etc...

Just accept that you need to send the PCM to the receiver for the affected discs or just listen to the core (non HD sent via coax/optical) soundtracks if you want. My preference is to let the SC-LX81 decode where possible as it sounds better to me with my equipment.

The XE-1 is a great player & I'm very happy with the SC-LX81 so enjoy your kit & try not to focus too much on this issue as there's no point under the circumstances etc..

Sorry I can't be of more help.
 

namuk

Distinguished Member
Is there no firmware out for the SC-LX81 ? also have you tryed swapping out HDMI leads? maybe faulty.

wourse case scenario is Roll back the XE1 player to 2.7 and see how that goes..
 

scumball

Distinguished Member
I have heard that Universal use a higher DD+ bitrate than Warner - it could be to do with that.

Maybe the amp has problems with high bitrate DD+.

If Warner use 640kb/s that is more like DD whereas Universal could be using 1.5mb/s.

The second language tracks are normally always encoded at a lower rate - so that would make sense as to why they work okay.

Do you have any full bitrate DTS DVDs to try as another type of test?

EDIT - just seen someone else has posted about this - sorry for doubling up.
 
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