XE1 and 1080P/24

[sniffer66]

Had a quick search but can't see whether the firmware update has been released for the above yet ?

I'm thinking of trading up from my E1 as I've had rid of my VP - would be good to be judder free again.

Anyone confirm please ?

Thanks

 

[jackal]

Apparently a firmware update will be available in September which will add1080p/24 functionality as well as other benefits.

 

[robert777]

Had a quick search but can't see whether the firmware update has been released for the above yet ?

I'm thinking of trading up from my E1 as I've had rid of my VP - would be good to be judder free again.

Anyone confirm please ?

Thanks

I am waiting for the same firmware update, I am sure I read somewhere on here its due in September, so not long to wait, even without 1080/24 fps its still an empressive player imo but will get even better with the upgrade

 

[sniffer66]

Thanks guys, as long as I know its close I can upgrade happily

 

[jackal]

According to reports, it will also be 1080p 24 proper straight from disc, i.e. no interlacing and then deinterlacing using the REON VX video processor - should be good.

The update should allow the XE1 (EP10) to regain the initiative and then some.

Also promised is the ability to stream bitstream HD audio to a receiver/processor/amp with onboard HD Audio decoders.

 

[MI55ION]

Any word as to whether it'll have a 'forced output' option? Very important for people who have HDMI receivers that need to be told what to do.

 

[jackal]

I have just been searching on this, but I cannot find a definite answer MI55ION.

It appears the update will be released on September 4th in the US.

Now all I need in onboard DTS HD MA onboard decoding for my Studio Canal films.

 

[MI55ION]

Thanks Jackal,

The thing is, when Sony first released the update on the PS3 for 1080p/24fps, they opened a can of worms where even their own 1080p receivers were unable to pass through this signal.

However, much kudos to them for they were very quick to rectify the situation by releasing update 1.9 that allowed the user to select output between 'on' or 'automatic'.

If Toshiba and other highdef competitors were watching, they should know very well that for backward compatibility, it's an important feature for many and one that is very easy to implement.

Now let's hope for everyone's sake that early adopters like many of us here are rewarded with a suitable update, oh and, DTS MA decoding would be the final icing on the cake.

 

[MJeeves]

According to reports, it will also be 1080p 24 proper straight from disc, i.e. no interlacing and then deinterlacing using the REON VX video processor - should be good.

The update should allow the XE1 (EP10) to regain the initiative and then some.

Also promised is the ability to stream bitstream HD audio to a receiver/processor/amp with onboard HD Audio decoders.

Will this mean anything for us with 720p (non-1080p 24 displays)?

Also, what is the "ability to stream bitstream HD audio to a receiver/processor/amp with onboard HD Audio decoders" mean ?

Thanks!

 

[Blue Triangles]

I have a question guys....

I run HDMI from my XE1 into my amp (Denon 2807) then into my tv (pio 506XDE). When this 1080p/24 update occurs, I know my tv can accept the 1080p/24 signal but I'm not sure if the amp can.

Can anyone clarify?

 

[jackal]

Will this mean anything for us with 720p (non-1080p 24 displays)?

Also, what is the "ability to stream bitstream HD audio to a receiver/processor/amp with onboard HD Audio decoders" mean ?

Thanks!

At the moment, the Toshiba HD DVD players decode Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus themselves and then output this over HDMI as Digital PCM which then undergoes digital to analogue conversion in the receiver.

(In the case of the HD XE1 the player can do both decode and D/A convert to output via the 5.1 analogue output.

The key point is that the player is doing the decoding via it own digital signal processors.

The upgrade will mean that the HD Audio on the disc can be output raw without any decoding to an amp(for example) that has it's own processors for Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus and DTS HD MA.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[jackal]

I have a question guys....

I run HDMI from my XE1 into my amp (Denon 2807) then into my tv (pio 506XDE). When this 1080p/24 update occurs, I know my tv can accept the 1080p/24 signal but I'm not sure if the amp can.

Can anyone clarify?

What does the manual say about supported resolutions?

You may get a better result posting in the Denon Owners Forum

http://www.avforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=184

 

[MI55ION]

I have a question guys....

I run HDMI from my XE1 into my amp (Denon 2807) then into my tv (pio 506XDE). When this 1080p/24 update occurs, I know my tv can accept the 1080p/24 signal but I'm not sure if the amp can.

Can anyone clarify?

The Denon's good to pass through 1080/24.

 

[MI55ION]

Will this mean anything for us with 720p (non-1080p 24 displays)?Thanks!

Yes and no.

Do you hate judder? If it doesn't bother you then no, it won't mean anything however if it does then read on.

If your TV/projector is 720p/1080i but can accept 1080p/24 signal and display it properly i.e. downscale to 720p without inducing judder, then it's very good news for you - very few 720p displays can do this at the moment.

I find judder to be one of the biggest problems with HD and anything that could eliminate it can only be good for us both in the short and long term. Also, I get a little tired of Camp-Blu throwing the 1080p24 capabilities of the PS3 at every opportunity so at the least, I'd like to see the XE1 on par with its rival to bring an end to that chapter.

 

[emthree]

I have a question guys....

I run HDMI from my XE1 into my amp (Denon 2807) then into my tv (pio 506XDE). When this 1080p/24 update occurs, I know my tv can accept the 1080p/24 signal but I'm not sure if the amp can.

Can anyone clarify?

In the worst case scenario, you may have to connect your player directly to the display (HDMI) and use co-axial or optical connexions for sound. I have a feeling though that Denon is good for 1080/24. I have a Yamaha 2600 (and the same display as yours) that allows 1080/24 run through.

Yes and no.

Do you hate judder? If it doesn't bother you then no, it won't mean anything however if it does then read on.

If your TV/projector is 720p/1080i but can accept 1080p/24 signal and display it properly i.e. downscale to 720p without inducing judder, then it's very good news for you - very few 720p displays can do this at the moment.

I find judder to be one of the biggest problems with HD and anything that could eliminate it can only be good for us both in the short and long term. Also, I get a little tired of Camp-Blu throwing the 1080p24 capabilities of the PS3 at every opportunity so at the least, I'd like to see the XE1 on par with its rival to bring an end to that chapter.

Pioneer 506 XDE is one of those that will downscale to 720p without causing judder. Something to do with being an exact multiple of 24.

 

[MJeeves]

Yes and no.

Do you hate judder? If it doesn't bother you then no, it won't mean anything however if it does then read on.

If your TV/projector is 720p/1080i but can accept 1080p/24 signal and display it properly i.e. downscale to 720p without inducing judder, then it's very good news for you - very few 720p displays can do this at the moment.

I find judder to be one of the biggest problems with HD and anything that could eliminate it can only be good for us both in the short and long term. Also, I get a little tired of Camp-Blu throwing the 1080p24 capabilities of the PS3 at every opportunity so at the least, I'd like to see the XE1 on par with its rival to bring an end to that chapter.

Thanks buddy. Great post. Do you know if the SIM2 RTX 55 H is one of those displays ? It's a DLP display using HDMI from a couple of years back.

Thanks again

 

[kostas13]

At the moment, the Toshiba HD DVD players decode Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital Plus themselves and then output this over HDMI as Digital PCM which then undergoes digital to analogue conversion in the receiver.

(In the case of the HD XE1 the player can do both decode and D/A convert to output via the 5.1 analogue output.

The key point is that the player is doing the decoding via it own digital signal processors.

The upgrade will mean that the HD Audio on the disc can be output raw without any decoding to an amp(for example) that has it's own processors for Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus and DTS HD MA.

Hope that makes sense.

Unfortunately true HD audio will not be heard via hdmi bitstream regardless of the update. Even if you have the hardware ready (ie source/amp with hdmi 1.3) The simple reason is that HD-DVD discs (and BDs) still get encoded with Advanced Code Mode (ACM) which ristricts any of the new HD codecs out via bitstream. So PCM will still be the only way to hear the new codecs until the studios decide to change their mind in this (I am sure they will eventually).

Regards,

Kostas

 

[jackal]

Unfortunately true HD audio will not be heard via hdmi bitstream regardless of the update. Even if you have the hardware ready (ie source/amp with hdmi 1.3) The simple reason is that HD-DVD discs (and BDs) still get encoded with Advanced Code Mode (ACM) which ristricts any of the new HD codecs out via bitstream. So PCM will still be the only way to hear the new codecs until the studios decide to change their mind in this (I am sure they will eventually).

Regards,

Kostas

That is what we had all thought Kostas, but apparently that is no longer the case.

Amir from Microsoft confirmed that ADV content can be overriden and the core audio track can be output. You won't get menu sounds, PIP commentaries etc. But you can get the soundtrack.

There are a number of threads on this in the High Definition players general forum, do a search and you will find them.

 

[MI55ION]

MJ,

I don't unfortunately.

The problem is, the majority of AV manufacturers tend to market their products as 1080p or even 1080p/24hz compatible, however this alone means very little when we are considering judder. For example, a plasma may be sold as 1080p however, they will leave out the important bit: is that 1080p/60hz or 1080p/24hz or a multiple of 24 which is what the Pioneers of the world do to eliminate judder. Some marketing departments already include this particular spec and give it a fancy name e.g. 'smooth screen' as another selling point and I'm sure others will start soon.

Ultimately, at this stage if you have a display that is a few years old, you either need definite confirmation from the manufacturer or dealer that the display can accept 1080p/24 and display it 'properly' at whatever resolution or use forums like this to find out from others and/or experiment yourself. If you are in the market to buy a new HD screen, it's worth researching compatible displays or holding on to your hard earned until there is more choice available - as I'm doing for a new projector.

 

[jackal]

That is what we had all thought Kostas, but apparently that is no longer the case.

Amir from Microsoft confirmed that ADV content can be overriden and the core audio track can be output. You won't get menu sounds, PIP commentaries etc. But you can get the soundtrack.

There are a number of threads on this in the High Definition players general forum, do a search and you will find them.

Take a look here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605449&page=2

 

[MJeeves]

MJ,

I don't unfortunately.

The problem is, the majority of AV manufacturers tend to market their products as 1080p or even 1080p/24hz compatible, however this alone means very little when we are considering judder. For example, a plasma may be sold as 1080p however, they will leave out the important bit: is that 1080p/60hz or 1080p/24hz or a multiple of 24 which is what the Pioneers of the world do to eliminate judder. Some marketing departments already include this particular spec and give it a fancy name e.g. 'smooth screen' as another selling point and I'm sure others will start soon.

Ultimately, at this stage if you have a display that is a few years old, you either need definite confirmation from the manufacturer or dealer that the display can accept 1080p/24 and display it 'properly' at whatever resolution or use forums like this to find out from others and/or experiment yourself. If you are in the market to buy a new HD screen, it's worth researching compatible displays or holding on to your hard earned until there is more choice available - as I'm doing for a new projector.

Thanks. I'm thinking of the new 60 inch Pioneer plasma coming in September. I think that does it all correctly. Thanks guys!

 

[myersfan73]

Anyone know if the E1 will be getting the 1080p/24 update? If not I'll be trading mine for an XE1!

 

[Avi]

Anyone know if the E1 will be getting the 1080p/24 update? If not I'll be trading mine for an XE1!

AFAIK for euro models the update will cover the EP10 and XE1 only because the hw has increased video processing capabilities over the E1.

AVI

 

[jackal]

For the technically minded among you (which doesn't include me) the new HD DVD video specifications outlining the implementation of 1080p 24 passthrough have been issued by the DVD forum

http://www.dvdforum.org/images/HD_DVD-Video_Guideline20070711.pdf

Buried in their somewhere is the fact that FORCED 1080p 24 output has been accounted for.

Read from page 34 onwards.

 

[MI55ION]

Thanks very much Jackal, from my understanding, it doesn't make it mandatory to have the forced 'on' option for 24p on players, although it is most possible.

3 kinds of output settings are defined, and 24p support player has at least either one of "auto" and "24p" settings in addition to "60p/60i" setting.

So it'll be either:

auto + 24p

or

auto + 60p/60i

or

auto + 24p + 60p/60i

Whatever method they include, let's hope we see the 24p option.