Xbox360 = TRUE 1080i capable?

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by FatMaserati, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. FatMaserati

    FatMaserati
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    My friend and I are trying to clarify an issue. No offense, but please only reply to this thread if you have some proper technical information to share.

    I am well aware that current Xbox360 games are 720p and that the Xbox360 can just upscale the signal to 1080i (for TVs that can only support 1080i).

    My question is this: Does the Xbox360 actually have the ability to output a TRUE 1080i signal? Or is its "1080i capabilities" restricted to upscaling lower resolutions?

    Also, another question relating to this: If the Xbox360 can support true 1080i, why can't the VGA cable support the higher resolution?
     
  2. Croftanator

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    I'm pretty sure in the Microsoft guidelines for developers it says it can support 1080i - but it also recommends that the developing the game for 1080i is not worth the extra performance hit of building the game to run in 720p and being upscaled to 1080i - due to very little perceived visual difference.
     
  3. Razor

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    Upsacle only from a 720p.
     
  4. markmitt

    markmitt
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    Call me stupid if necessary, but I always thought that 1080i was actually LOWER than 720p, seeing as 1080i is 1920 by 1080 interlaced, which means two everchanging fields (so 960 by 540), whereas 720p is progressive, so you get constant 1280 by 720.

    That's how I thought it worked, and to be fair even TV engineers (from Sharp Serv) tell me that 720p is better than 1080i due to loss of detail with 1080i...

    So which is it for those in the know?
     
  5. FatMaserati

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    Although it's not critical to my question, 1080i is actually two fields of 1920x540. You don't halve the horizontal resolution as well.

    Well it will be interesting to see if any games end up being released with 1080i in mind then. Until then, my display will be set to 720p.
     
  6. brain_stew

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    Developers can create 1080i games if they so wish, but I don't think any games are currently outputting at true 1080i. All games must be 720p minimum but they can be 1080i native if developers feel they need to offer this, but I don't think it'll be used much to be honest.
     
  7. Rasczak

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    Must they? I thought at least one of the launch games had a reduced resolution (600 or similar) so framerates didn't suffer - obviously the 360 upscaled it to 720p or 1080i if set on the output though.

    EDIT: Yes - it's PGR3. To quote from a chap in this forum on PGR3:

    ...so there you have it. Where framerate is likely to suffer lower than High Def resolutions will be used.
     
  8. Malone

    Malone
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    I have also read that 720p is more appropriate for faster moving images hence Sky chose it for their broadcasts, 1080i is better for still images such as piccies.

    1080i can look a little 'noisy' where 720p is smoother.

    Matt
     
  9. markmitt

    markmitt
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    Sorted then. Let's all watch streaming piccies from our PC's on our 360's in 1080i mode! :smashin:
     
  10. Malone

    Malone
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    Who's the Daddy:D ;)

    Matt
     
  11. mrmcdean

    mrmcdean
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    Does this mean that the issues raised not long ago about mis information from sales staff regarding HDTV's is a little bit irrelevant, I read that they were selling 720p TV's as the muts nuts and people in the know were saying that this was mis leading as 1080 was better. If 720 is better for moving images will this always be the case or will 1080 technology improve (silly question ?) ?

    This could be improtant to me as im looking at getting a projector and want to get the best I can afford but if 1080 isnt that widely used and perhaps never will be for tv, films and games then I can broaden my seach.

    Sorry if any of this is a little stupid, im not that clued in to Hi Def so far ans im still on an old CRT tv :suicide:
     
  12. R5Rich

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    1080p is better then 720p so yes its better than 720. But i believe theres very few tvs that can actually do it if any?? As it requires stupid amounts of bandwidth.
     
  13. bishman

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    Progressive will generally be better than interlaced for moving images.

    1080i is interlaced but 1080p is not. If you are looking for the best, then you'd be well advised to look for something that is 1080p capable. Blu-Ray playback will be capable at 1080p I believe.
     
  14. Sick-Boy

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    To be fair the guy doesn't say it's not rendering in 720. It's an MS requirement that games render to a minimum 1280x720 when set to a HiDef mode. Sounds to me like he's saying PGR3 is rendering to 720 and using the 360's scaler to produce 1080i when that's selected.

    It takes alot more processing power to internally render at 1080 picture, most developers won't bother and will stick with 720 to get the best performance... it's not like it's a bad thing though ;)
     
  15. Kurt_Wylde

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  16. Sick-Boy

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    Well that'll be MS letting first party devs get away with anything ;)
     
  17. Malone

    Malone
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    On my limited knowledge, I think your confusing 1080i with 1080p. 1080i and 720p actually result in a fairly similar amount of pixels ( I believe) but 1080p is the optimum resolution which is not broadcastable at the mo due to bandwith compression. Potentialy PS3/HD-DVD and Blu ray will use it and only a limited number of displays will support it. 720p is IMHO the best option at the mo as progressive(720p) arguably gives a better image as opposed to interlaced (1080i).

    Matt
     
  18. orange66

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    well, interlaced display is just not the big problem it used to be on the old CRT sets. My plasma does a fine job of hiding any interlacing. BUT and it is a big but, almost all HD ready sets out there only have around or just above 720 lines of pixels on the screen, so you achieve nothing going into 1080i mode at all. I know half a dozen posters will reply with my set has this and that, but on the whole, manufacturers are not going near 1080p at the moment, because the broadcasters have yet to roll out even 720p worldwide and there just is not the content to justify it.

    The way they found out about PGR3 being under 720p was the screen dump system used on dev kits to get pics out the system for reviews. The screen dumps for PGR3 are not 720p. (another reason to dump that game!)
     
  19. mrmcdean

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    Cheers for that Malone, I think I am getting confused, looks as though I could save myself some money then :clap: rather than holding out for a 1080p (or i1080i for that matter) PJ that Id have to spend a small fortune on and then having to get a video source with the capabilities to match, I'll stick with the lower resolution, after all this whole HD thing is only just getting off the ground so I imagine it'll be some time before 720p is old news, my wife will probably have killed / divorced me by then for spending so much on this stuff, either way I wont be upgrading for sometime (if ever :suicide: ).
     
  20. Malone

    Malone
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    At the moment a PJ capable of 720p would most likely also support 1080i which is fine for now. I bought my PJ a good 3 years ago and that supports both. Depends on what you want to spend I guess. If your loaded then a 1080p PJ would be luvvvvly:D and your future proofing but for now 720p is still classed as HD and will keep me happy until 1080p is the norm. I would imagine its worth making sure the PJ you get has HDMI sockets though.

    Matt
     
  21. mrmcdean

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    the search continues......

    Thanks for the very useful advice.
     

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