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Xbox vert. banding, now DVD player?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by tomacwhite, Nov 23, 2003.

  1. tomacwhite

    tomacwhite
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    I get very thin vertical lines on my AE200 when in very light scenes (like clouds, skys etc) when playing DVDs through component (in progressive) on my Sony 730p.

    Now its not like the Xbox (component) verical banding which was really thick chunky lines virtually all the time, but its thin lines (kinda like interlacing but vertical) down the screen..

    Is this normal and just part of owning a Projector that you do get this sort of thing? :)
     
  2. Kramer

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    No, not all LCD projectors suffer from banding (I wouldn't have one if they did).

    "Vertical banding" appears like a rain streaked window. Basically, as if there's a vertically streaked sheet of glass in front of the screen.

    It doesn't sound like that's what you're seeing though as it's different from X-box & DVD player.

    May be a cabling/mains/setup issue.

    Post with a bit more information if you can.

    :smoke:
     
  3. tomacwhite

    tomacwhite
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    Thanks for replying. OK I'll try and explain it best I can. I took this photo of Ghostbusters R2 running in Progressive Scan (Sony 730p DVD player) on my Panasonic AE200.

    [​IMG]

    Its impossible to see the lines on the photo, but if you imagine very very thin vertical lines on the sky. When you get to buildings or anything darker than white it can't be seen. They are hard to see on the sky scenes ie you arent drawn to them like on Xbox, but if you look you can see them. They are very slight.

    As far as connections go, I am using Profigold 10m component video leads to go from a switch box to the projector, and a set of component leads from audiovisualonline. The switch box works perfectly well on GC, so I doubt its that.

    Just had a look what its like through RGB SCART, and its basically the same.

    So to summarise I get the thin "banding" effect on light scenes through RGB, component and component progressive scan.

    Further to this, running DVDs in progressive scan doesnt seem to make much difference at all (hardly noticable), whereas games (NTSC GAMECUBE) running in progressive scan are vastly different. The DVD is outputting in progressive because the little blue light is on, and the projector is receiving progressive as it says so in the display options screen.

    Any ideas?


    EDIT: Just tried direct connection to projector with Profigold leads and its no different.
     
  4. Bristol Pete

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    a good idea to defocus the image slightly and then use the sharpness option in the menu to increase sharpness by 2/3 notches. The defocus should help you loose some of the VB from eye sight.

    The whole subject of VB seems subjective to a certain set up and as kramer states, it may be down to inter-connects, even the mains and of course, the PJ itself.

    As for NTSC prog. scan, apparently the differences in a prog. scan picture when NTSC compared to PAL are quite apparent - perhaps due to the number of lines within the picture. Therefore, it may be a good idea for you to import all of your DVDs if the PQ is that much better in your set up. (if thats possible ?).

    Hope this helps,

    Cap:)
     
  5. tomacwhite

    tomacwhite
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    Thanks.
    Right I'll try some R1 discs today to see if the progressive image looks alot better, and will also try the method you mentioned to help reduce banding.

    Could it be possible that the projector is faulty atall? I doubt it, but its best to ask.

    I tried Halo (PAL interlaced) last night through RGB and couldnt see any banding in the game or even on the pure white MS logo. Whereas on component it is a real problem (but this has been discussed before and I think we came to the conclusion that the Xbox HDTV pack is at fault).

    It would be ideal if someone else on here had a AE200 and Sony 730p and we could compare picture.


    One other thing: I have never seen a progressive scan DVD before, but am I right to expect the same from a game; more detail, smoother image etc? What would you recommend for a good DVD to try out?

    Thanks.
     
  6. cyberheater

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    Try setting the NR (noise reduction) option on. It should help.
     
  7. Bristol Pete

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    I doubt if the projector is at fault. It may be a case of eeking the banding out of your set up. However, if you feel that the banding is excessive, enquire about having the unit exchanged for a different one, but the fact that there is zero banding evident from your RGB scart suggests that it may be something within your set up.

    My first ever PJ, a Z1 had terrible vertical banding which the supplier exchanged for me. In that instance, the PJ was to blame as the replacement unit had no VB.

    I am far from an expert, but yes, I think that a progressive image will improve things, removing potential jaggies, offering a smoother iamge. Do note that the PJ is outputting a progressive image anyway.

    Cap:)
     
  8. tomacwhite

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    Right just had a good test with Fast and the Furious Region 1 version in both interlaced and prog. scan. The interlaced picture is of course, very good, offering excellent colour and sharpness etc. However in progressive scan, pillars on cars etc are much much smoother (zero jaggies), and the picture is much more stable (no flickery bits which you seem to get occasionally on angles etc). Left to right camera pans seem smoother too, and the colour is definetly better in progressive scan. I am now happy that progressive scan is working correctly on the DVD player etc and the projector too (even though it was working anyway for GAMECUBE prog scan).. Thats one thing sorted. Phew!



    Now for the lines:

    I have tried defocusing a bit and turning up sharpness, and although it helps a little I am still getting slight banding. Its weird. I also tried messing with NR but that didnt make any difference. The lines are very close to each other, and if you get uber close to the screen you cant (really) see them. Perhaps its just an AE200 DVD playback thing? I don't know for sure. I noticed on sky scenes like mentioned before, and also on headlights on the cars when they are coming towards you. Obviously these lines are there all the time, but you only notice them on certain colours.

    I will test my other inputs today such as GC through component and PlayStation2 through RGB (both NTSC) and Xbox again (PAL RGB).


    To be honest, its not something that is ruining the experience in any way, its not like "Whoa look at those lines!" its more like "oh yeah I see them now you mention it..".


    Thanks for everyones help so far, I am not that "with it" when its comes to projectors and DVD players, so I really appreciate any advice/ideas/help that you guys provide.


    Cheers :)
     
  9. tomacwhite

    tomacwhite
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    I have checked a wealth of inputs tonight and it seems to do it a little bit on everything.

    If I use the "Dynamic" preset it removes 99% of it.

    But as it does seem to happen on everything when you look closely for it (not that closley though), do you think its a fault?

    If someone here with an AE200 and some consoles could help out/test theirs I'd really appreciate it.

    Thanks.
     
  10. Kramer

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    Access the service menu.

    If the banding is visible on the (internally generated) red, green & blue screens, then it's obviously inherent in the projector.

    Sounding more like vertical banding common to many LCD projectors (even the Z2 AFAIK :eek:).

    I sent you a PM earlier today - might be of some use with diagnosis at least ;)
     
  11. tomacwhite

    tomacwhite
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    Just had a look in the service menu. Yes the lines are noticable on white/grey screen and the green one. Again only very slight.

    So do I worry now or is it just part of the panel? Like I say its not serious, but I do worry about such things...

    Thanks.
     
  12. Bristol Pete

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    I forgot to mention a HOYA filter.

    Apparently, some members here have radically improved images due to this and it can also help to diminish both screen door and the dreaded vertical banding.

    I intend on buying one at the end of the week (yippee its pay day) and tweaking my AE300 picture to suit it.

    Can be bought fairly cheaply online or over the counter at Jessops/good camera shops. Find the recent hoya thread here and it will tell you the actual filter size you require, which I recall is 52mm.

    Again, I hope this helps.

    Cap:smashin:
     
  13. tomacwhite

    tomacwhite
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    Yeah I have been looking into getting one of these. However I have been concerned that as white balance isnt adjustabel on RGB/Component inputs it may screw some colours up.

    Do you know much about this?
     
  14. Bristol Pete

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    No I do not, but I figure that a small lay out may improve my picture.

    I intend on buying it fairly cheaply and seeing if it helps.

    If it makes the colours look odd then back it may go. A lot of independant camera shops in my area sell filters fairly cheaply, compared to jessops who charge about £25.00.

    Nothing to loose really.

    Cap :)
     
  15. hexxed

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  16. fred123go

    fred123go
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    i am concerned with this vb issue, captain b you said your z1 was replaced and vb has now been reduced, my new z2 has pretty damn bad vb-do you think this is because the service settings menus, i have heard that #14 is the vb one, are different from pj to pj?
    cheers
    Fred
     
  17. Bristol Pete

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    Yes, indeed, my first Z1 had awful VB which depsite tweaking with the much vaunted Sanyo hidden menus, I could not get rid of :mad:

    At times it was like watching a film through a rain streaked window, but oddly, the VB only appeared on two parts of the picture, the extreme middle and the bottom left corner - although that was more than enough to spoil our fun.

    I suggest speaking to your dealer as I informed mine of the situation and they promptly replaced it for me. (within a day I think). The second unit had no VB but loads of dead pixels....but thats a different story.

    I feel for you Fred and I hope you can remedy this. All I can suggest is that you try the tweak too. I also bought better quality component leads as I have a reasonable run of it in the attic and thus wanted it shielded better. As you have said in previous posts, the DVD player could also be at fault here, as well as the disks. For example, I do not get VB on my Panny AE300 but when I watch The Two Towers I do get some VB on the very light scenes as the eclectic trio yomp across Rohan......cant really work it out - but not that bothered.

    Hope this helps,

    Cap:)
     
  18. fred123go

    fred123go
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    ok looks like i will have to get my Z2 replaced!
    Fred
     
  19. Bristol Pete

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    Fred,

    If you think that this is the case and you cant shift the VB then good luck with the replacement.

    As I said, the first Z1 I had seemed to be the extreme case, but unacceptable never the less.

    One thing that I would say is that I seem to recall you watching a large screen from a shortish distance which may not be helping things.

    Keep me up to date.

    Cap:)
     

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