Xbox Series X

iwb100

Distinguished Member
There's also in my mind less excuse for not at least offering a 60FPS mode. Not every game will be 60 but I think if not there now should be a very good reason why. For example 'our physics engine requires too much compute at 60 in open world setting' might apply for some games even with the new CPU's. But if not then at least give games the option of a 60 mode.
 

DarkEntity

Well-known Member
If you say to parents all over the world this has X frame rate and this has y while they are in a store most will go " my son/daughter has the old Xbox/PS is this the new one?" I'll have that please. They just don't care.

Even reading the comments on the PS and Xbox threads most have already decided which they want as they have the prior version very few are sitting going "ooh this has 120 or this has 121" or what ever it is. Most game players have already bought in to an architecture (some may have both) Very few every day players base it on frame rate

The frame rate is just something else the machine does while you play game.
 

iwb100

Distinguished Member
If you say to parents all over the world this has X frame rate and this has y while they are in a store most will go " my son/daughter has the old Xbox/PS is this the new one?" I'll have that please. They just don't care.

Even reading the comments on the PS and Xbox threads most have already decided which they want as they have the prior version very few are sitting going "ooh this has 120 or this has 121" or what ever it is. Most game players have already bought in to an architecture (some may have both) Very few every day players base it on frame rate

The frame rate is just something else the machine does while you play game.
Yeah but we're not talking about that. We're talking about improving console gaming with technology that allows higher framerates and variable referesh rates. If you tell gamers their games will be smoother and more responsive I'm sure most are at least happy at that.
 

King Tones

Distinguished Member
I didn't realise parents make up most of the sales.
Plus most kids nowadays know there stuff and know exactly what they want. It's certainly the case for the parents and kids I know.

It worked for PS4 being marketing as the most powerful console at the start of last gen and so you never know this marketing nonsense might work for this gen, doubt it but stranger things have happened.
 

sleepylaser

Active Member
Oh I’m sure plenty people buy things without looking into them too much. But this is an enthusiasts forum. Just because some people don’t care doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter.
 

iwb100

Distinguished Member
Oh I’m sure plenty people buy things without looking into them too much. But this is an enthusiasts forum. Just because some people don’t care doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter.
And the point of this discussion wasn't about sales or who will sell more or why it was about framerate technology and how this gen it is actually taking a jump forward. Who thought we'd ever see a AAA mainstream console title being touted at 120FPS?
 

Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
I didn't realise parents make up most of the sales.
Plus most kids nowadays know there stuff and know exactly what they want. It's certainly the case for the parents and kids I know.
Spot on. Most kids these days when not playing games tend to live on youtube so they'll be very clued up on whats what. They may not fully understand everything they hear but theyll umderstand key aspects. They'll then drop endless hints, or outright say to their parents which they want.

Another benefit potentially to MS is the advancement of crossplay for major titles like COD. MS pushed crossplay in the industry and as it becomes more mainstream for major titles people won't necessarilly just buy a console because their friends get it. With crossplay they may think I'd rather have the most powerful machine and can still play online with friends anyway so no worries.
 

everett_psycho

Distinguished Member
Seeing the frame rates side by side will be interesting to see if the non enthusiasts even notice. If a kid has friends in both camps and sees 120 on the Xbox Vs 60 on the ps5 it could swap those on the fence in to taking the smoother experience. Then again, how many people will have 120hz 4k panels to play them on. I've got the option of 1080 @ 144 or 4k @60. Both will be an improvement over the one s and PS4 but will I really see any benefit going for the more powerful?

I feel like the high end consoles are now enthusiast machines, especially if Lockhart is a thing, like what happened with HD in the PS3/360 generation, we will now be waiting for the TV market to catch up to the consoles being played on them. I know o owned a early 360 and enjoyed it, but I didn't get an HD TV to plug it in to to really take advantage of the upgraded visuals for a good couple of years in to is life.
 

leeince

Distinguished Member
If you say to parents all over the world this has X frame rate and this has y while they are in a store most will go " my son/daughter has the old Xbox/PS is this the new one?" I'll have that please. They just don't care.

Even reading the comments on the PS and Xbox threads most have already decided which they want as they have the prior version very few are sitting going "ooh this has 120 or this has 121" or what ever it is. Most game players have already bought in to an architecture (some may have both) Very few every day players base it on frame rate

The frame rate is just something else the machine does while you play game.
You really shouldn't be speaking for "Parents all over the world" because you're wrong.

My son for instance is 8 years old and has a PlayStation 4 and Xbox One S in his room.

I have a gaming pc in my office thats made up of a 1080ti GPU and a 1440p 144hz monitor.

He loves Fortnite and I cant get him off my PC. Hes well aware of FPS and tells me its horrible playing on his PlayStation compared to the pc. And that he's so much better on PC.

He's already asked what FPS the Series X and PS5 will be able to achieve.

You also get FPS counters on certain console games these days so kids do know what FPS are.

Don't assume you know what other people want or think.
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
I find your replies to be .... short sighted and the way you phrase them condescending - at one time I was employed to render 3D graphics professionally so I am familiar with Ray tracing. I am technical and have a science degree, I have worked in IT for 23 years and owned all consoles since 1982 and built multiple gaming PC's for me and everyone else I know since 1990, so when you dismiss it with that kind of statement I feel its not what I would call a balanced response, it certainly made me angry.

But rather than having a go at you I would suggest that even if you think my arguments are bollox, dont say I dont understand it and therefore its not a valid point - prove it in your posts as currently all I am seeing from you is that we are unable to comprehend what your sayin. Maybe your new to consoles and you only have had a couple of generations of them, I dont know and I dont know you or your experience of this stuff so I wont claim you dont understand this but I think it would be good if you do the same to others.

NOTE - I really dislike the "do you know who I am" type posts where some dude says he has a degree and 23 year experience, its really not what I want to say, I mean who cares who I am but I am looking for intelligent respectful conversation and if someone say that to my face I would reply like this.
I think your comment just proves you are a technically minded person, I respect that you have taken the time to explain why you felt my comment was insulting and your technical background and perhaps you do understand ray tracing, I apologise if I caused any offence as I did not mean to. But at the end of the day your opinion is just an opinion, my opinion is my opinion and is no less valid then anyone else's on here, despite what many try to proclaim on these forums.
I worked in the IT sector for circa 9 years, built hundreds of computers from desktops to servers, installed multi user networks, repaired machines on a daily basis. I also administered a satellite site for a major global corporation of circa 170 machines from a CAD suite to office machines to machines running CNC machines. I also have dabbled in 3D animation and took a vested interest in 3D graphics. So what though? What does this prove? My opinion is still my opinion.

A professional opinion in my eyes would need to come from an employee of the PlayStation or Xbox hardware development team, or a games developer working on either platforms development kit, if you are able to link to an article by such a professional then please do and I shall certainly take a look with interest.

Oh and I've been playing on console since the Sega Master day's.

Let me change the narrative on my argument then and back it up with a statement from Microsoft as requested, and based on my comment of professional opinions:

Microsoft has proclaimed the target for games on Series X is 4K 60FPS and Ray Tracing:


Games that have been Optimized for Xbox Series X use the power of the new console to deliver higher, steadier framerates, with a performance target of 60 frames per second at 4K resolution.

So I'll change my opinion, I will now think most Series X games will be 4K 60FPS, as Microsoft has proclaimed that is the target performance metric, but the PS5 currently as it stands will not because Sony have not stated it will be targeting 4K 60FPS in it's games, if I am wrong on this then please link to an article from Sony or a Sony development studio proving so.
That should fit the narrative better on here yes? Now it isn't going to mean 'ALL' games will do this on the Series X as proven by the Assassins Creed game, but I have heard Dirt 5 has been running at 120FPS on the Series X but they have not stated at what resolution, the report is on this website but the video interview, carried out by that Major Nelson is embedded in the page:


So that's two pieces of factual information, if people want to discredit these facts then please do the courtesy of providing genuine links to articles to backup your counter argument.

As Ray Tracing isn't mentioned in the statement by Microsoft then I'll currently leave that out.
 
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Fe_man2000

Well-known Member
I appreciate the reply, but you seem to be trying to turn this around like I have in any way suggested that your opinion isnt valid

But at the end of the day your opinion is just an opinion, my opinion is my opinion and is no less valid then anyone else's on here, despite what many try to proclaim on these forums.
Yeah this - you need to practice what you preach, posting it back at me like I started this seems like deflection.

But lets move on, this is a place I come to enjoy some techy talk about my fav subject - gaming and I think after so many generations of hardware my expectations are pragmatic at best hence I tend to be more "yeah that will be cool but will it be the revolution that <insert company> claim it is, why would they exaggerate ?" Ray Tracing on PC is a good example, - lots of hype this gen and it looks nice but currently costs a huge amount of money to get average performance, in a time when I want my 144hz screen to be doing its job and not running games with RT on at 45fps. With regards to RT on consoles I hope I am wrong but I suspect there will be using every trick on the book to provide some form of RT and keep the frame rates at 30fps - check out that Digital Foundary video about it on the PS5 and it shows some of the cheats/opitmisations already in play - this will apply to Xbox also I am sure. It will be interesting to see how much the 30xx Nvida cards cost and how well they do RT when there released as a guide to rougly what we can expect on the consoles.
 

Cha1ky

Member
So NBA2K21 pricing has been released and they want an extra $10 for the next gen version compared to the current gen so $70 compared to $60 (no doubt the pricing will convert to the same in GBP.

Also you only seem to get the free next gen version if you buy the Deluxe $100 edition too so I think this is the first company to not offer that AFAIK.

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iwb100

Distinguished Member
So NBA2K21 pricing has been released and they want an extra $10 for the next gen version compared to the current gen so $70 compared to $60 (no doubt the pricing will convert to the same in GBP.

Also you only seem to get the free next gen version if you buy the Deluxe $100 edition too so I think this is the first company to not offer that AFAIK.

View attachment 1327816
Could be £50000 for all i care. Basketball is a non event to me.

Hopefully everyone boycotts this sh*tty business practice and nobody ever wastes any resources on stupid American sports again.
 

Cha1ky

Member
Could be £50000 for all i care. Basketball is a non event to me.

Hopefully everyone boycotts this sh*tty business practice and nobody ever wastes any resources on stupid American sports again.
Basketball might be a non event but its showing a $10 increase in game prices so we could quite possibly see that with others. I've no interest in the game either but i'm just pointing that increase out and that they aren't doing the free upgrade like others.
 

iwb100

Distinguished Member
Basketball might be a non event but its showing a $10 increase in game prices so we could quite possibly see that with others. I've no interest in the game either but i'm just pointing that increase out and that they aren't doing the free upgrade like others.
Yeah it’s sh*tty practice. Price rise is what it is. But forcing people to pay for deluxe editions to get the next gen version is ultimate scum.
 

sleepylaser

Active Member
Yeah it’s sh*tty practice. Price rise is what it is. But forcing people to pay for deluxe editions to get the next gen version is ultimate scum.
Just wait and get the next gen version at the basic next gen price. Which will either be £65 or £70 by the sounds of it- I’m not overly distraught about that price for larger games (all the extra assets and development time and costs, etc), but I’m hoping that those games that are shorter don’t cost as much.
 

iwb100

Distinguished Member
Just wait and get the next gen version at the basic next gen price. Which will either be £65 or £70 by the sounds of it- I’m not overly distraught about that price for larger games (all the extra assets and development time and costs, etc), but I’m hoping that those games that are shorter don’t cost as much.
Every single game should give you the next gen version free if you buy the current gen version. If EA and Ubi are supporting this then come on....
 

sleepylaser

Active Member
Every single game should give you the next gen version free if you buy the current gen version. If EA and Ubi are supporting this then come on....
I think that should be in the hands of the publishers. I’m happy that Microsft are doing it and that EA (albeit in a more limited way) are following suit. But I do want to see enhanced next gen versions so I wouldn’t deny developers their cut of the extra work put in.
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
Yeah it’s sh*tty practice. Price rise is what it is. But forcing people to pay for deluxe editions to get the next gen version is ultimate scum.
Haha that’s EA for you...
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
Even EA are offering limited windows for free upgrades...not full smart delivery...but better than this garbage from 2K
Ah my bad, they do so many sports games I thought it was them, and it sounds like the thing EA would do.. I’m surprised they are offering limited free upgrades.
 

Lee Moles

Active Member
Haven't new release games been $60/£50 for a long time now? Especially if games are becoming 25-30 hours long.

I agree with the old Playstation Head guy, shorter great quality games
 

iwb100

Distinguished Member
Haven't new release games been $60/£50 for a long time now? Especially if games are becoming 25-30 hours long.

I agree with the old Playstation Head guy, shorter great quality games
The price is less an issue. Not providing a free path to upgrade when everyone else is is rubbish.
 

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