Xbox Series S (Lockhart)

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
Starting a topic about this as I cannot see one here.

For ages, I have been looking forward to the Xbox Series X and intending to buy this first over possibly buying the PS5. But thinking this week the Xbox Series S may possibly be the better buy for early adoption. This is the console that is going to be 4 Teraflops. But designed to be of equal performance to the 6 Teraflop Xbox One X.

I was considering this may be the better buy and was wanting to open discussion on this possibility. I say this as.

1. For the first three years from release, game developers do not really stretch the consoles and the games are not that big of a leap from games on the previous generation. This was the case on both the Xbox One and also the Xbox360. I remember when they first came out the games were sparse and not that much better visually than what could be had on the 360, or Original Xbox. If that is the case, getting the Lockhart may be very cost-effective as there won't initially be that much of a jump between the Series S and Series X for the first few years until developers know how to really take full potential of the hardware.

2. Games on the current Xbox One X look pretty fantastic, even in 2160p and it's hard to think how far visually they could improve. Also just two years ago everyone raved how much of a beast the Xbox One X was. And if the Lockhart is going to be as powerful as this it seems good enough for me.

3. If the games developers don't really push the hardware until a few years in. Then by this time the Xbox Series X slim may be out costing much less. As it was 3 years in when the Xbox One Slim and Xbox360 slim came out with much better hardware reivions.

4. The main upgrade for the consoles really will be the inclusion of an SSD and faster processor. Which the Lockhart is rumoured to have the same spec SSD and CPU (although the SSD will likely be 512GB as opposed to 1TB). If the Lockhart has the same CPU, memory, and spec SSD (but lesser size) and the only performance difference is the GPU. That would make it a much better buy if this can be had for around the rumoured £200 cheaper RRP.

5. I am thinking backwards compatibility and playing Xbox One games on there may be the same performance as the Series X.

What does anyone else think? Any think I may be missing in my thoughts? By the way I know most of this is speculation. But with nothing much to do now during the lockdown. Speculation is still worth doing in my opinion.
 
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Cha1ky

Member
I'll be back when its actually announced but still sticking with the viewpoint that its going to render the Xbox One series useless if they release it the same time. It will also cause confusion.
 

Fe_man2000

Well-known Member
All those points are good (although I think 3 years to see better games might be a bit long but yeah maybe) , and you may be right to consider buying one. I mean there has to be market for something like this otherwise there is no point releasing it and MS must consider it worth while.

BUT

1. Does it actually exist ? I havent seen anything offical that this is happening

2. Assume it does exist, when is it out ? What if the launch of this is 6 months later on from the Series X, or more likely 12 months ? Is that a factor you are OK with waiting till xmas 2021 to get one.

3. price, how much cheaper is it ? WE dont know, its got to be like £299 if it has the SSD in it on launch - looks at the Digital version of the Xbox one, it cost more than most expected.

Bottom line its all about money and time. How much do you save getting the lower spec one and how long are you happy with it.

Say the Series X is £499 and Lockheart is £299 and then 3 years later on a "slim" Series X is say £399
(remember the Xbox one X launched at £450 and now is around £329 3 years later and just before a new generation.)

Spreading the cost and getting a cheaper console but spending more overall (not including any money back for selling the lockheart on)

Personally if I was thinking of doing this I would consider sitting on the Xbox one I currently have and doing nothing untill there was enough reason to spend the money as you says the games look good and will work on your console so why bother with a half way step, go big or be wise with the money. I am sticking £50 a month in my console saving account so I can get which ever I fancy Xbox or PS5 at the time with no hit to my bank account just before xmas.
 

Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
I'll be back when its actually announced but still sticking with the viewpoint that its going to render the Xbox One series useless if they release it the same time. It will also cause confusion.
It will render the One X obsolete as likely similar price point for a far superior console. Given MS have been offering dirt cheap One X options it appears its aiming to clear stocks beforehand for that very reason.

Going forward there'll be the One S as a cheap old gen offering then two Next gen options clearly branded differently, one premium, one more affordable so not really much different to things now.
 

Cha1ky

Member
It will render the One X obsolete as likely similar price point for a far superior console. Given MS have been offering dirt cheap One X options it appears its aiming to clear stocks beforehand for that very reason.

Going forward there'll be the One S as a cheap old gen offering then two Next gen options clearly branded differently, one premium, one more affordable so not really much different to things now.
The S should be the first to go. The One X should then be the bargain basement console.
 

Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
The S should be the first to go. The One X should then be the bargain basement console.
I just think MS might leave it around at a very cheap price as an option to get more casuals on the platform to sell gamepass etc....
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
I have been watching videos on youtube saying retailers have been told by Microsoft that when the Xbox One X and Xbox One S go out of stock there won't be any replacements.

So it seems, if this is true, unlike the Xbox360 that still was being manufactured for a good while after the Xbox One came out. This will be it for both consoles.

Which does make sense given the plan is to have the Xbox Series S/X be 100% backwards compatible with Xbox One games.

In terms of what I think. I would say the all-digital Xbox One S has a purpose as a bargain basement entry system for ~£100. But there is no point whatsoever in Microsoft continuing with the Xbox One X. And not really the Xbox One S Blu-ray drive model.
 

Cha1ky

Member
I just think MS might leave it around at a very cheap price as an option to get more casuals on the platform to sell gamepass etc....
They could knock the X down to a low price though. Dropping the x means the lowest games to need to make for would be the X. They could turn the S into a cheap compact Game Pass device if they want :)

Have they official said they've stopped making the One X though. I've not seen that anywhere.
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
Have they official said they've stopped making the One X though. I've not seen that anywhere.
Apparently they've told retailers according to a channel I have been watching on Youtube. There is a limited edition Cyberpunk 2077 console coming out in June and then MS have said after that, there will be no more Xbox One X consoles manufactured.
 

Cha1ky

Member
Apparently they've told retailers according to a channel I have been watching on Youtube. There is a limited edition Cyberpunk 2077 console coming out in June and then MS have said after that, there will be no more Xbox One X consoles manufactured.
:rotfl:

Well its official then folks. Someone said so on a YouTube video........

I'll wait for something more...Official.
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
:rotfl:

Well its official then folks. Someone said so on a YouTube video........

I'll wait for something more...Official.
He did say it very convincingly though ;)
 

rowedav

Distinguished Member
I reckon Lockhart will be mid-late 2021. All the time and effort that’s been put into the Series X...let it have its time in the limelight and have all the focus on it.

There are enough options now at the lower end of the budget for Xbox, they don’t need to add Lockhart into the mix right now imo
 

Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
I think the original expectation was Series X would be dearer than PS5 due to its better spec making sure it was the most powerful. It is very much a premium spec option for hardcore gamers who are happy to pay extra for the best option possible.

The Series S allows a lower spec option so they can also have a cheaper option than the PS5, in doing so ticking both boxes for the power and price narratives.

Dont see the point launching next year because by then anyone who cant afford a Series X may have already bought a PS5 instead if its the cheapest option.

If they release both as expected, the S will be the biggest seller by a long way, just like the One S outsold the One X regardless of it being the lesser console.
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
If the S and X are identical specs-wise other than GPU. I can see the S shifting a lot of consoles. Especially if people are skint due to the Covid19 lockdown.

When you think of it, who buys the crazy powered GPUs when Nvidia and AMD release them. The biggest sellers are the upper mid-range cards around £200.

I am starting to get more and more convinced the S will be the best buy. As long as they hit the £300 price mark with it. No more.
 

allenstorm

Novice Member
Now we all know the Series S is real. I still can not comprehend why release a machine with lower spec than the XBOX One X when the One X price has dropped to around $250USD. I heard the Series S is designed for games with 1080P resolution. The problem is, after you have experienced 4K gaming, why go back to 1080P? I hope Microsoft just focus on the Series X and keep the One X on sales.
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
Now we all know the Series S is real. I still can not comprehend why release a machine with lower spec than the XBOX One X when the One X price has dropped to around $250USD. I heard the Series S is designed for games with 1080P resolution. The problem is, after you have experienced 4K gaming, why go back to 1080P? I hope Microsoft just focus on the Series X and keep the One X on sales.
How do we know it’s real? I remember Spencer stating they were only going to release one console next gen, now obviously that could change but all you have is apparently some profile found by someone. It doesn’t make sense to me either which is why I won’t believe it till I see it.
 

sleepylaser

Active Member
Lockhart is more powerful than the Xbox one x. Lockhart is a next gen console by way of its GPU CPU and SSD, just that the GPU will render at lower resolution.
 

rowedav

Distinguished Member
I heard the Series S is designed for games with 1080P resolution.
I've seen this posted elsewhere and I don't think it's an accurate way to describe the consoles capabilities at all. IF the rumoured specs are real...whilst it may not have the 6TF GPU of the One X, the other advances (CPU, RDNA 2.0, SSD, Velocity Architecture etc) more than make up for this - and it will be a more capable machine overall. So I would strongly imagine Lockhart will be capable of running games at all kinds of resolutions, with current gen games running on par with how they do on the One X.

I think where the 1080p bit comes in will be in those next-gen games, that are designed with the latest architectural features and SSD capabilities in mind, but can't run at the same res as Series X.

I'm sure DF did a video on this kind of thing, where they compared higher powered GPUs on old architecture (GCN?) against lowered powered GPUs on the latest architecture (apologies that's probably not very accurate was of describing it -I'm not an expert when it comes to the nitty-gritty). Needless to say, the lowered power GPUs performed very well
 

everett_psycho

Distinguished Member
I'm still on the fence and think pricing will definitely be the clincher. If the rumoured half price is true I'd be more tempted by the S, if it's more like £100 I'd probably just stump up the extra cash.

I think replacing the one X is where this lives, it would be pointless to have a similarly powered machine on the old architecture minus the perks of the CPU and SSD. Price wise they'd probably be not far off each other as I can't see the one X material cost being reduced by that much. I'm not sure what the plan for the one s is, but if they aren't releasing generational exclusives a trifecta of:

one s for £100 aimed at [email protected] and xcloud
series s for £300 aimed at [email protected]/[email protected]
series X for £500 aimed at [email protected]/120

With this they have all demographics covered, xcloud could allow the old one s to almost hit series X visuals for those that want that right up to the enthusiasts. I'm not sure what their plan was but I wouldn't be surprised if a global recession has made them look again at Lockhart of it wasn't due this year. It may have been penned for next year but with so many people struggling I think if they have it ready they'd do well to get it out and use it to undercut the PS4 and boost sales. I feel this generation games as a service will become more prevalent with ps now and gamepass so it's in their interest to get the market share by any means to get those subscriptions signed up.
 

iwb100

Distinguished Member
I'm still on the fence and think pricing will definitely be the clincher. If the rumoured half price is true I'd be more tempted by the S, if it's more like £100 I'd probably just stump up the extra cash.

I think replacing the one X is where this lives, it would be pointless to have a similarly powered machine on the old architecture minus the perks of the CPU and SSD. Price wise they'd probably be not far off each other as I can't see the one X material cost being reduced by that much. I'm not sure what the plan for the one s is, but if they aren't releasing generational exclusives a trifecta of:

one s for £100 aimed at [email protected] and xcloud
series s for £300 aimed at [email protected]/[email protected]
series X for £500 aimed at [email protected]/120

With this they have all demographics covered, xcloud could allow the old one s to almost hit series X visuals for those that want that right up to the enthusiasts. I'm not sure what their plan was but I wouldn't be surprised if a global recession has made them look again at Lockhart of it wasn't due this year. It may have been penned for next year but with so many people struggling I think if they have it ready they'd do well to get it out and use it to undercut the PS4 and boost sales. I feel this generation games as a service will become more prevalent with ps now and gamepass so it's in their interest to get the market share by any means to get those subscriptions signed up.
I think the lockhart if MS do decide to go with it is this gen's xbox one s.

You have last gen s -One X. New gen - lockhart (series S) - Series X

Its not replacing last gen consoles its providing two levels for the next gen.

Series S is rumoured to be 1080p - same level as the X at 4K or thereabouts.

So its effectively the same split setup you've got now - in fact the power differential between Xbox One S and Xbox One X and Series S (lets say) and Series X is very similar 3/4* difference in each case.
 

Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
Now we all know the Series S is real. I still can not comprehend why release a machine with lower spec than the XBOX One X when the One X price has dropped to around $250USD. I heard the Series S is designed for games with 1080P resolution. The problem is, after you have experienced 4K gaming, why go back to 1080P? I hope Microsoft just focus on the Series X and keep the One X on sales.
It's not lower spec than the One X, it's far superior. So many people hear 4 or 4.2 Tflops and just simplify that to being less that the One X which has 6 Tflops and therefore think it's lower spec.

On the latest RDNA2 GPU hardware 4 TF's are equivalent to probably about 7 Tflops on older current gen hardware, hence graphical capability superior to the One X. When you then also throw in the next gen CPU which is supposedly the same as the Series X, (better than the PS5's) it is hugely more capable than the One X. Let's not forget the main issue with current gen consoles was the weak CPU which was the bottleneck limiting frame rates etc. The One X GPU had the horsepower to produce more frames but the CPU couldn't handle them, hence bottleneck, hence most games limited to 30. The Lockhart / Series S won't have any such issues as will have a great CPU and on top of that also have the same SSD as the Series X. It will be light years ahead of any console available today, even if a lower spec than Series X and PS5.

I also think with all the talk of it being a"1080 machine" , many hear that, see 4TF and assume weak. But when there's talk of 1080 it's referred to as being 1080 at 60fps, maybe more. It could easily do what One X does today, so in many cases hit 4k 30, but more likely targets are 1080 or 1440 / 60.

Given huge numbers of people don't yet have 4k TV's and many more have tight budgets it will be a great option for a lot of people to get into next gen. Also the bulk of the console sales go to casuals hence there's potentially huge sales based on being the cheapest if a significant difference. Then factor MS want as many people on Game pass going forward they will potentially offer it as a crazy low price to entice people onto the ecosystem. I also think thy may push their pay monthly scheme more on the lockhart. Console and GP ultimate for about £20-25/ month over a 2yr contract or something would temp plenty.
 

ZicoUK

Active Member
I have to laugh sometimes at those who post things saying that the Series S / Lockhart console is real. It's all still rumours and nothing more. Until Microsoft actually announce something, it's all rumours or speculation.

The fact that the world's economy has taken a hit from the Covid 19 virus will more than likely affect both Microsoft and Sony in it's release plans for the XSX and PS5. It's already been reported in the FT that prices of the consoles bill of materials may be higher than expected, that and the impact on manufacturing output, will mean that bringing out multiple SKU's won't help the economies of scale in producing a console.

Sony's digital only SKU is the equivalent of the Xbox One SAD where Microsoft simply removed the Blu-ray drive, the rest of the console is almost entirely identical meaning that it can be built on the same manufacturing line. A SKU with a different SoC, etc. will need a different manufacturing line meaning the potential reduction of overall output if the focus is split between the SKUs.

IF, and I repeat IF, the Lockhart SKU is to be announced, I will put my money on it being released next year and at least 6 months later.

Microsoft can counter the PS5 prices if they slash the One S and X to clear stock in the period between Christmas and summer next year.
 

jdevil

Distinguished Member
Agree partly, the console may be legit but doesn't sound like a launch product and can see it being 6 months later or so.
 

sleepylaser

Active Member
Sony's digital only SKU is the equivalent of the Xbox One SAD where Microsoft simply removed the Blu-ray drive, the rest of the console is almost entirely identical meaning that it can be built on the same manufacturing line.
PS5 digital edition shell is also different to the disc version shell (different plastic moulding different amount of physical buttons- different lines?). And maybe the main board doesn’t have connectors for a disc drive, and maybe there’s a different power supply unit if the driveless box needs less energy?
 

everett_psycho

Distinguished Member
PS5 digital edition shell is also different to the disc version shell (different plastic moulding different amount of physical buttons- different lines?). And maybe the main board doesn’t have connectors for a disc drive, and maybe there’s a different power supply unit if the driveless box needs less energy?
Any savings they'd make removing the connections and buttons would likely be entirely negated by having to run a different production lines for it. I'm inclined to agree with zicouk that it will be like the Xbox one sad, that is just a plate where the disc drive is and a different shell that hides the eject button, the electronics are identical. So they'll end up with a ps5 and either plug in a drive and stick it in one shell is so the drive and put it in a different shell. A disc drive won't make much difference to the power draw to really impact that side of things.
 

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