Xbox one tech specs conference today

Discussion in 'Xbox One' started by jjgreenwood, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. jjgreenwood

    jjgreenwood
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,756
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Location:
    The depths of hell
    Ratings:
    +1,012
    http://www.hotchips.org/

    Here, apparently when 360 was launched they did something similar and revealed what the hardware was capable of. Those who understand the technical stuff might be interested.
     
  2. jjgreenwood

    jjgreenwood
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,756
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Location:
    The depths of hell
    Ratings:
    +1,012
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    XBox One SOC has a CPU, GPU, and 15 special-purpose processors. Total of 47MB of storage on-chip. #HC25
    https://twitter.com/Daniel_Bowers/st...39785453346816

    Hot Chips: At 363mm2 with over 5b transistors the Xbox One SoC designed by Microsoft and AMD is a very complex SoC.
    https://twitter.com/TekStrategist/st...41324871946240

    Audio offload processor in XBox One SoC are "completely designed by Microsoft" and have "more than a CPU core worth of processing" #HC25
    https://twitter.com/Daniel_Bowers/st...41578639929345

    XBox One CPU has eight "modified" AMD Jaguar x86-64 cores, in two clusters of four cores. Modifiations to memory sharing & bandwidth. #HC25
    https://twitter.com/Daniel_Bowers/st...40673618182144

    https://twitter.com/Prof_hrk/status/372039524253048832

    Translated from Japanese:
    High-speed CPU · GPU / memory connection of R / W of, 4x256-bit 264GB / s DDR3 4 channel, GPU, the GPU memory.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  3. Det

    Det
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    32,660
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Token American
    Ratings:
    +9,081
    Soooo... anyone care to dumb that stuff down?
     
  4. HaRd2BeAr

    HaRd2BeAr
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    7,355
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Ratings:
    +4,813
    Where's turk3y when you need him :laugh:
     
  5. turk3y

    turk3y
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,243
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,034
    ok got me well and truly pegged, was just reading what I could find out, apparently these are filmed but its probably going to be a while till we get that, but I would assume in a day for so we will have some really good break down of the chip.

    It seems a tale of two sides, first is the rumours where mostly bang on, the other side is they did not take into account any of the custom bits the chip has which we don't know much about as atm all we are hearing about is the GPU flops.

    so officially its 1.3Tflops so 0.5Tflops less than the PS4, same CPU ish as the PS4 so its easy to tell how they will perform... that is looking less clear now.

    we now know that the once mentioned "flash cache" is 8GB of flash memory (like a 8GB SSD) that we assume will dump memory when switching a game so you can instantly (or at least stupidly quickly) resume where you where.

    news seems to be fragmented and it seems Microsoft did not go into deep detail on everything and just had somethings on slide and skipped entirely so its really hard to get a handle on all of it but it seems that the chip is designed to have lots of tasks handled by custom add on bits Microsoft designed, this seems different to the PS4 (although we know little of the possible ARM chip it has which could also do some tasks) where they talk about using the GPU for audio and other tasks with the increased cores and queue size.

    what does this chip have then to help it out.

    There is an Audio offload processor in XBox One SoC are "completely designed by Microsoft" and have "more than a CPU core worth of processing" this is 2 vector cores I believe, and the 360 GPU was vector based for what its worth.

    The graphics section of the main processor has 15 special processors that can handle things like graphics or physics processing. Data highways can transfer bits at a rate of 200 gigabytes per second or more across different parts of the chip.

    4 Command processors (2 compute, 2 graphics), no idea specifically what these are, no extra info that I can find atm.

    SHAPE offloads >1 CPU core, again node idea but looks like the are saying its more powerful than a full Jaguar core.

    exactly what the special processors and friends are or what they are capable of is unknown, if we are lucky they are dedicated "compute" areas so the GPU is all about graphics and compute GPGPU tasks run here, this if true could level the playing field with the PS4 in later life where Mark Cerny thinks developers will use the "uneven" GPU cores (his words) for this and is why they have extra queue size to better run these tasks.

    it seems the early reports about the PS4 supporting hUMA and the Xbox not is both true and false. hUMA is AMD's specific implementation, Microsoft dont use hUMA probably because there is ESRAM but they implement the idea in their own way it seems from the slides, or in a non "standard" way as they have a non standard memory setup. Pesky ESRAM lol.

    The chip has a total of 47MB or cache, we assume that includes the 32 mb of ESRAM, some for the CPU but even then that leaves some unknowns, probably just highlights the extra processing units in there we don't yet understand.

    the end result is this is very customised and that's just treating it as a block diagram, they could have also customised the internals of the CPU and GPU also similar to what Sony have talked about. Neither Sony nor Microsoft are going to reveal everything they have done, Microsoft seems to have sunk a lot if its own research and IP in here so its some what an unknown.

    will this be the all powerful cell of this generation, we know how well that worked last time.....

    hopefully some smart folks can crunch the facts for us to give some nice news releases for tomorrow.
     
  6. jjgreenwood

    jjgreenwood
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,756
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Location:
    The depths of hell
    Ratings:
    +1,012
    Thanks mate, it does sound a bit complicated. No wonder there is rumours of the Microsoft software and drivers being behind the ps4 stuff, it sounds like the xbone is a completely new architecture rather than just a few bits of x86 tech nailed together.

    I'm not technical beyond the charts of this graphics card is faster than this other one. Am I right in saying that xbone potentially has some bits of custom hardware inside that may give advantages like a snes mode 7, or extra aa, or some kind of ray tracing or whatever?

    Has to be said that early on this is looking a bit like the ps3 of this generation from a design and marketing perspective. Is it likely that any of the custom stuff or even the 8gb of flash will work with the cloud any better than a normal pc, perhaps help to reduce the latency inherent in that kind of connection?
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  7. zt1903

    zt1903
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,465
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,418
    Flash memory the only thing that's much of a surprise, otherwise the rumoured specs were pretty much spot on.

    Quite a large die size which gives some credibility to the persistent rumours of yield issues.

    Peak bandwidth figure looks like a bit of creative accounting to me.

    I can see how they're claiming cache coherency and a huma like custom solution. Looks a bit complicated though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  8. Boozehound

    Boozehound
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,066
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Greenock
    Ratings:
    +1,771
    To me, and I'm no hardware expert but I do have a little experience, it looks like the apples for apples comparison with the PS4 has perhaps shown the One in a poorer light than it should have. I suspect it's actually a lot more powerful than suspected but (and it's a big but) it's going to need good devs to take advantage of this early in it's life. As the tools mature though, I'd expect some big leaps on what we see on screen, although early on I suspect the PS4 will have the edge. Delighted with the SSD inclusion, will certainly help keep the three OS experience nice and fast, again though I suspect MS may have other plans for this going forward.

    Good times for us gamers. In a year or two I reckon we're going to have some pretty special games to keep us entertained.
     
  9. Det

    Det
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    32,660
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Token American
    Ratings:
    +9,081
    Sounds like a lot of hoopla
     
  10. turk3y

    turk3y
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,243
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,034
    flash memory was always on the cards with their original "flash cache" but size was unknown as was exact use, we still don't know the use but as it matches ram it seems logical its to store state of main men 5gb games 3gb os/apps, this is probably when off as well as last game /app used to you can instantly switch between two games say.

    the 15 processors seem to be stuff for the tv and such integration so that is all outside the main chip so has not affect on gaming.

    still think the memory bandwidth numbers are over simplification probably because in real world they could be anything depending on what you do and how the move and compression stuff works to funnel more data faster. In a nut shell it seems it has enough bandwidth if you are willing to work for it, its not going to be sitting there on a plate (PS4).

    the complexity may be misleading, if they have worked out take that always chew CPU power (as its a general purpose chip) and made dedicated hardware to handle it (the reason we have a GPU now) it might make using it easier. It will however even further pull Xbox code from pc or PS4 as each will be doing these things in different places. PC has more CPU power, PS4 is a GPGPU compute machine and it seems Microsoft want to use custom solutions for some things. They do still show the GPU as a compute area so will be interesting how that works with its lower core count.

    Beyond3D Forum - View Single Post - Xbox One (codename Durango) technical hardware investigation (news and rumours)
    audio seems a relatively big thing to offload which I assume is why forza and ki make a show of it. Apparently it's not uncommon on the 360 to have an entire core dedicated to just audio with racing games able to chew 3 cores for audio due to 100 channels they can use for a car.

    Sony are mot showing off their chip at hot chips so we have no idea how these compare, we know the PS4 has an arm chip or similar that deals with HDD and io , it might well do other things also and their might be other parts in the main chip which are not publicly documented.

    as it stands it pretty much where we where before, just a bunch of numbers with folks saying they are closer than they might appear on paper and are waiting for some in game footage to compare the beasts,
     
  11. zt1903

    zt1903
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,465
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,418
    Picked up off GAF, sound right Turk3y?

     
  12. jjgreenwood

    jjgreenwood
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,756
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Location:
    The depths of hell
    Ratings:
    +1,012
    Think ps4 has 16gb?
     
  13. kav

    kav
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    25,488
    Products Owned:
    10
    Products Wanted:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Scotland
    Ratings:
    +13,816
    It sounds pathetic but aside from the games, one of the things I am most excited about with this new gen is the ability to instantly snap between apps, or instantly return to a game where I left it off. I really hope that feature is as good as it is being made out to be. I can't stand loading screens and delayed responses due to lack of processing power, it was one of the things that annoyed me most on 360..
     
  14. zt1903

    zt1903
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,465
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,418
    Have seen that in a couple of places, none of them official.
     
  15. turk3y

    turk3y
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,243
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,034
    the flash is I believe what they call flash cache and in the hardware panel at reveal they had this to say

    so I think there are various uses in play and that is to do with the various things you can do and what the ram in the system is used for, I think its not a coincidence they are equal.

    so the game partition is 5gb and the "os" is 3gb, now the 3gb is windows 8 and runs what we would refer to as the dash now, it also allows apps and other software to run alongside it within this 3gb area, windows booting can be slow so hibernating this will make the console boot a lot faster if it can read from flash rather than really boot from cold or have to read the memory dump from the hdd, With the power states they talk about I assume it uses more standby tech where the data stays in memory with a tiny trickle of power so it can instantly resume.

    It unclear what else they are planning for example I could be playing forza and then go to the dash, the system probably now dumps the memory the game had loaded to flash, I could then say play Killer instinct which takes over the 5gb of ram and everything is good, but I want to flick back to forza, well the system then just swaps the ram to flash to save KI and re instantiate forza and I would be back to exactly where I was in game.

    given the 3gb is still free that could be used to turbo charge hdd access times in game and allow games to stage assets they might want to use to speed loading, when the console shuts this might be uses.

    or the 3gb will be used to save state of any application you have loaded in the OS side which seems more probable.

    With the virtual tech they keep talking about its possible this flash will be used to back up the 3GB and allow the OS to present more memory to each app than there is and have some semi fast storage behind that, ie each app is given a "guarenteed" 512mb say which with enough running will take them over the limit but if only 2 can be on screen at once you could be saving state of an off screen item without much impact to the user and applications themselves will never need to worry about that sort of complexity.

    It certainly gives some flexibility to the system and should allow them to try and get to their goal about simultaneous and instantaneous operation, switching and flicking instantly where a game appears as if its a tv channel change etc..

    I have no idea what Sony have but they have a compression chip between the system and HDD to speed up access there and could have something similar and they are using some clever low power modes to keep the OS stored in memory in "standby" rather than hibernation which would achieve the same thing unless the system is turned off for the OS, its unknown for games, but a copy of game memory can be made on the HDD in a traditional Hibernation method. A slick Linux OS will not take too much memory so this would be fast to save and load, give a sexy boot animation and the rest will be loaded in time. The 1GB shared memory with the OS could also be some sort of speed loading option that has been designed, many ways to skin a cat.

    for the audio hardware I am not sure if its just for games or has AV options also as there is the 15 other special processors that seem to deal with this area (ie TV input):

    also whipped off gaf to save me actually typing it lol

    but looking at that diagram the Audio DMA seems to get the data from AV in and then send it to AV out, this is seperate to Audio Processors that is a separate item in the slide, that could be a functional break rather than physical break tho I suppose.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. jayd

    jayd

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    6,773
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +1,550
    All of this tech is way over my head but I read somewhere today that this basically still leaves us pretty much where we were before as there was a lot of custom processes MS couldn't reveal which are on this chip as there is a NDA till late Sept. Is this true?
     
  17. KirkSi

    KirkSi
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Messages:
    7,822
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +3,899
    The custom silicon sounds great. It may be the 'secret sauce' that we were hoping would close the gap to the raw grunt of the PS4. It does make me wonder whether MS have just done what Sony did last gen and made it harder to develop for though. Not sure there's a right and a wrong approach on this, I think both will turn out to be great consoles and play great games (which is what's important) but we could see the same as last gen but roles swapped. PS4 may have the initial advantage, but later in the life cycle, as better tools are developed to get the most out of the XBox One it'll come into it's own.
     
  18. turk3y

    turk3y
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,243
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,034
    dont know about the NDA and I am sure if there was one they could not mention it existed either so hard to say, down to the specs being inline with what was reported this is true, the unknown is how much of this work that they can offload into custom parts of the chip is work the PS4 will need to run as "compute" which will bring the graphical grunt of the two systems closer depending on that a game needs to run and how its all laid out.

    The direct GPU to GPU comparisons we saw before hold true, but this generation the GPU will be doing a lot of other tasks, so its not quite as clear cut as 18 is 50% larger than 12 and that means x frame rate differences as Sony themselves don't see all 18 being used for graphics and Microsoft are providing custom stuff so some of these other tasks do not need to eat into its GPU resources. Its still not 100% clear how it will all work we will get more info in a day or so when folks write up the presentation and there are some interviews and such.
     
  19. zt1903

    zt1903
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,465
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,418
    Yeah, this is what I'm trying to get my head round, and unfortunately the chat on GAF is starting to go way over my head.

    However, there is a lot of customisation in the PS4 silicon that we haven't heard about yet and also I don't think we've seen anything in this presentation that is indicative of MS secret sauce either.

    There does appear to be a greater degree of complexity to the XB1 architecture but not to a cell processor level.

    Anyway, the conclusion of GAF appears to be that PS4 = Goku and XB1 = Vegeta and that Miley Cyrus is trying too hard :suicide:
     
  20. turk3y

    turk3y
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,243
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,034
    there is breaking down the tech speak so mortals can understand and then there is GAF with their crazy gif's and that goes way above my head.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  21. zt1903

    zt1903
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,465
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,418
    Agreed. The tech stuff that I didn't understand made more sense to me than the Dragonball BS :laugh:

    Some of the Miley Cyrus gifs were funny though.
     
  22. turk3y

    turk3y
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,243
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,034
    they also mention host guest access, and I think Microsoft mentioned something about its 3rd OS which hosts the two main VMs (game and app/dash) in that using this OS it was possible to share memory between these two isolated machines. This would allow and app to work alongside a game you are playing etc.. not 100% if thats whats being shown here and others seem to come up with different ideas but host guest are certainly the correct terms for one VM running within another.

    I went to the no pic thread as I got lost with the DBZ stuff, I am not cool enough for them crazy cats.
     
  23. zt1903

    zt1903
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,465
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,418
    Another one for you Turk3y

     
  24. Det

    Det
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    32,660
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Token American
    Ratings:
    +9,081
  25. turk3y

    turk3y
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,243
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,034
    the hUMA issue is totally not clear, but hUMA is AMD's implementation and therefore the same results might be achievable without it being hUMA, ie using IBM tech or ideas say.

    eg

    Sony PlayStation 4 (PS4) will NOT utilize AMD hUMA with Kabini-based SoC | PC Perspective

    has AMD correcting reports and saying the PS4 has hUMA to clarify that it does not, but then stressing that not being their hUMA tech does not mean it cannot do shared GPU and CPU memory.

    There is lots of iffs and buts on how this works, but basically it has to be transparent to the CPU and GPU to be hUMA (lets assume its a global standard to keep it simple), now its possible that the CPU and GPU can access these things but there is a step or something to go through that still allows the idea to run but is not pure and might be the current case if its not really ready for pure prime time.

    Also Microsoft has ESRAM which is not in AMD gfx cards so its unlikly they had and off the shelf implementation for the Xbox APU anyhow. I know sony have Onion, Garlic, Super Onion and Super Garlic as busses to get data too and fro and I think the Xbox has similar, I think the key difference with the consoles and the true hUMA is the data access speed for the shared memory access is at a slower speed. For example the shared memory access on the xbox is at 30GBS not the 68 for DDR3 access.

    I don't understand the nuances of all the arguments for or against but it seems that there is access to the memory its just how pure or perfect the solution in place is.

    Given the xbox has what seems like 101 other "processors" in there I think its fair to assume they looked at shared memory access or the system would be one giant knot of their own creation ruining its efficiently, everything they say about the chip is about getting cached data access and such to keep it smooth so whatever they have implemented is probably good stuff, but it might not meet the holy buzzword hUMA.

    I cant wait to see some pro write up on it all as there is so many interacting parts its quite hard to really understand a single area let alone how all this is going to work together in the highly complex world of games.
     
  26. Det

    Det
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    32,660
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Token American
    Ratings:
    +9,081
    So... vampires aren't going to be using a Sony then? Is that what you meant?
     
  27. zt1903

    zt1903
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,465
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,418
    Thanks Turk3y

    My rough understanding of what happened in the design process is that because of the media functionality, Kinect, 3 OSs etc XB1 definitely needed to have 8Gb RAM but at that stage DDR3 was the only economic option and ESRAM was utilised to compensate for the s**tty bandwidth. Compromises were made in the GPU to make the build affordable. A number of architecture issues arise from those decisions.

    Sony took a different direction and were more focussed on pure gaming and therefore went with GDDR5, stronger GPU, etc but were expecting to only utilise 4Gb RAM. They took a deliberate decision not to include SRAM to maintain a tighter memory configuration. They scored a lucky break in that the economics of the memory improved between design and build allowing them to go up to 8Gb. This break has allowed Sony to beef up the other functionality without taking a hit to the gaming performance.

    I guess we've still got a number of weeks before we get to see the head to heads, but at face value XB1 will be a fabulous success if it acheives close enough to parity for it to be irrelevant.
     
  28. Det

    Det
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    32,660
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Token American
    Ratings:
    +9,081
    To be honest, the more I read all the ridiculously geeky stuff you guys talk about and the more I think about it. Both systems are going to have great looking games, with only a visual disparity equal to that of multiplats on PS360 which were in favor of X360 by a small margin. They both have advantages that exclusives can and WILL manipulate to "code to the chassis" of the architecture earlier on (say years 2-4) and then multiplats will catch up years 5-8 where the big developers streamline their coding processes and engines to take advantage of both systems while not creating too much work for the devs.

    Then at the end of the lifespan for development we'll see exclusive devs bombard the hUMA, and RAM, and esRAM to give your eyes an orgasm while bring you some epic gameplay.

    I think the differences in architecture really won't be that apparent early on and possibly not as noticeable later on if the esRAM can be utilized in such a way that the bandwidth is on par with the GDDR5 in the PS4. Exciting times ahead for sure. Unfortunately for the MS folk, I think the truly epic experience will be a little slower to come to fruition on XB1 because the esRAM is next gen's CELL.
     
  29. addyb

    addyb
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    35,358
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    .
    Ratings:
    +12,237
    Some proper nerds on these forums thats for sure.
     
  30. zt1903

    zt1903
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,465
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +4,418
    I like the geeky stuff though :blush:

    I saw a representation of the relative console powers that went something like this.

    PS360 - - WiiU - - - - - - - - - - XB1 - - - - PS4

    Where one " - " represents half an XBox 360.

    I agree that regardless of the relative power both are going to look fantastic compared to the current gen. However if I'm only going to buy one ......
     

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice