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Xbox 360 disc format?

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by scitech, May 29, 2005.

  1. scitech

    scitech
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    Hi, has M$ announced what format the Xbox 360 discs will be? I'm assuming HD-DVD but I've not seen any mention of it.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Munkey Boy

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    Standard DVD9 dual layer. Definitely not HD-DVD or Blu-Ray - they are too expensive to put in a console at the moment apparently.
     
  3. sweetmate

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    They are also not ready as formats, and unneeded, the biggest pc games right now fit on single layer dvds at around 4 to 5 gb, why would we need 50gb of space for a game?
     
  4. scitech

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    thanks for the replys.

    So what is Sony's argument for using Blu-Ray?
     
  5. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    They dont need one, its a sony format, if the head of the playstation department didnt choose Blu-Ray, his bosses would have fired him.
     
  6. explicitlyrics

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    Some games are coming out at 7gb at the moment on the XBOX. Metal Slug 2 took 8gb which is the most I have seen (but thats coz it was designed badly for use on PS2).

    I reckon it wont be too long (maybe this time next year) when we will be seeing at least dual disk games for XBOX 360.
     
  7. scitech

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    fair enough.

    Cheers.
     
  8. AML

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    Sony choose Blu Ray for the PS3 not so much for games but for video.

    They want to sell the Blu Ray format, so by puting a drive in every PS3 thats kind of guaranteeing its success as a hi def format.

    You have to admit that if the PS2 had not used DVD, the format wouldnt have take off as fast as it did.

    A lot of people still use PS2's as DVD players.

    It is true that newer hi def games will probably need more space, but most of the time that space is only used by FMV.
    Im sure thats the case for Metal Slug. I doubt the game data needs that much space.

    Since the Xbox 360 is going with DVD's it makes you realise that a bigger disk may not be necesary at this point.

    Having said that, using DVDs instead of a bigger format may bite MS in the ass in the future!
     
  9. Miyazaki

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    TBH blu-ray is a gamble, m$ are playing it safe with dvd format.
     
  10. is1111

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    i brought up this point too on another forum as i could see games ending up on two dual layer discs on xbox 360.
    there is a few dual layer games about just now on xbox and ps2(rallisport 2 and gt4) so it does seem strange that xbox 360 is supposed to be next gen but only uses media of same capacity as current gen consoles.
    on the other forum someone claimed compression techniques are getting better so they will still be able to fit great detailed games on dual layer disc. they used half life 2 as an example on pc as it is a single layer dvd but is probably best looking game out there just now. i don't have half life 2 so not sure if it extracts to a larger size on hd once installed so the single layer disc point may be irrelevant.
    does the xbox360's extra performance mean data can be processed differently and maybe not use up as much capacity on the dvd as xbox 1 would?
     
  11. paulfoley

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    Games & Movies are about to go Hi Def. You been in Comets or Curry's TV department in the last year? I think that Sony are playing safe by including both of these features in a console that should last 4-5 years. In ignoring it I believe that it is Microsoft who are gambling ?
     
  12. CAS FAN

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    The whole reason for Blu Ray etc is for high def. True High def games will contain far more detail than standard def stuff and will therefore require a much larger storage capacity to hold the information. Just getting a standard spec game & increasing the resolution isn't what the high def era is all about.

    The bottom line is that Sony will be in a position to release games of unparalleled detail and realism as they have the storage medium to hold all of the required data. Blu ray also has very high speed access times that allow this information to be loaded much quicker than DVD drives allow.

    You just have to look at the leap in gaming between CD's (700mb) and DVD's (9 GB Dual layer) to see the difference between those formats.

    Personally I see Blu Ray taking off movie wise as well as now that we are well established with digital formats, it's much easier for people to upgrade. Blu Ray players will play existing DVD's where as DVD's don't play VHS tapes. There isn't the huge need therefore to buy all of your DVD's on Blu Ray format as the new drives will play DVD's. I guess that means that there will only be select films that people will rebuy.
     
  13. harrisuk

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    PS3 Games will not use anything like the storage capacity of Blue Ray. FACT.
    Certainly not for several years if ever.

    It would take years and huge sums of money to use the space available, games producers are talking about reducing costs not increasing them.

    Anyone who knows anything about games developement knows this.

    Building games these days is about building high quality textures which take up less space not more HL2 is a perfect example of this. Blue Ray is for HD video the space simply wont be reuqired for games.

    Look at PC games developement. Currently its far ahead on consoles and its been proven as specs increase storage capacity for games dosnt need to.

    Absolute garbage. Please get your facts right. Its metal Slug 3 thats been release on the Xbox and this game uses much much less than 100 meg :rolleyes:

    I am yet to see an xbox game that uses more than 4.9 gig of space.
     
  14. explicitlyrics

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    Yes yes i know, my apologies, I meant Metal Gear Solid.... I am always getting them confused :p

    Metal Gear Solid is 8.1Gb.

    Sorry :oops:
     
  15. AML

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    Metal Gar Solid is full of FMV sequences with Dolby Digital (5.1) thats why it fills up a whole DVD.

    If thats they way games are gonna go, then no thanks!

    I would rather makers stick to DVDs as it would mean more game time and less sitting back watching time!

    Even if the PS3 has a Blu Ray drive, I doubt many games will actually come out on BR disks! Most will still be on DVDs.
    The same way a lot of PS2 games still come out on CDs. Only games with a lot of FMV like Metal Gear use DVDs.

    The BR drive will only be used for BR movies.
     
  16. CAS FAN

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    It's funny how X-Box fan boys were all for HD-DVD, Blu Ray etc before they realised that the M$ were not including such a drive. :rolleyes: I am most definately not a fan boy of any machine. Yes I currently love playing on my X-box and don't really play on anything else at the moment as in my eyes it's the best console out there. What that doesn't mean is that I will automatically love the 360 and simply dismiss other machines, putting them down when possible.

    I know quite a lot about games development and have friends who are in the industry. The next gen drive is to advance to a higher level of gaming detail to get away from the generally lifeless worlds that we have in our current games to more detailed and lifelike environments. This will all take up much more processing power, storage space and bigger development teams (which is the main factor that has spurred the rise in games price discussion).

    So anyone who does know anything about games development also knows that the next big push it to really bring games to the mainstream with not only budgets but also audiences to rival that of the Movie industry. Believe me the industry is not looking to move backwards but instead feels that it is on the true brink of really moving into the mainstream. Factors such as Halo2 grossing more in 1 day than any other popular media product has done on it's first day of launch is an encouraging sign and shows how far gaming has come over the last 10 years.

    It's not going to be an overnight thing and naturally many of the first wave of games will be DVD, but after a year or two we will start seeing more and more BR disc games hitting the market. It's not about filling them with hi def FMV but more about including 1,000's more models with 1,000's more polygons. It's about including 1,000's more far higher resolution textrures with more advances mapping and lighting procedures. It's about including 1,000's more frames of animation and far more complex AI routines and it's about including worlds far more rich in detail, size and content than was possible before. It's all about really immersing the player so that it's not constantly obvious that you are playing a game and through the above the industry hopes to attract the mass market bringing in the revenue to pay for such games. They wouldn't be able to spend 100's of millions on films if only a few million people watched them and the same goes for gaming.
     
  17. AML

    AML
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    I dont think thats fair. Ill be the first to say that im looking forward to these new formats and I also agree that not using one could hurt MS in the future.

    What im also saying is that bigger formats arent necesary for games at this moment in time. Perhaps a few years down the road yes. And thats where sony will edge out the competition.

    No need to call us "Fan Boys" just because we support a particluar console over another.

    This time round I feel the MS actually care about making good games and they have listened to what people want. Sony on the other hand are only interested in making money and promoting their own formats.

    The only reason they are puting in a Blu Ray drive is coz they want people to buy into Blu Ray and not HD DVD.

    They probably dont care if it has game related applications.

    MS seems to be the lesser of two evils! :devil:
     
  18. harrisuk

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    As I said its been proven from the PC that as games get better and Pcs have got more poweful the storage space for the games has not needed to increase.

    Developement times and costs are now crucial. I would be amazed if any PS3 game used a fraction of the space available on blue ray.

    You also have to think about the cost of the media. Blu ray discs are very expensive to manufacture and it will be several years before they come down to a reasonable price.

    That said I am looking forward to HD movies and will be buying a PS3 for this if nothing else.

    Heres an interesting take on the disc storage issue :

     
  19. eviljohn2

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    What about the possibility of swapping out the driver for a hi-def model in a few years time as you would with a PC?
     
  20. harrisuk

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    Thats a very interesting point if they could make the DVD drive interchangable (As the Hard Drive) it would future proof the unit. Unfortunately I am sure that would make the 360 much more expensive and it sounds like they are desperate to make these things affordable. I guess if they were planning this we would have heard about it by now.

    I think its a fair point that neither of the HD formats will be available for the 360 launch let alone at a pricing level which would make it viable in their eyes.

    I guess Sony can get away with it as they are developing Blue Ray, have at least 6 months / 12 months to get the PS3 ready after the 360 is launched and are willing to take an enourmous loss of their new console to establish the Blue Ray format.

    I suppose it makes sense for them to loss lead on this scale to try and kill HD DVD. Some very interesting comments from Mr Allard on the Blu Ray issue and the PS3 tech demos

    Microsoft's J Allard on Xbox 360


    So in terms of the game footage it was probably misleading to consumers who might expect [PS3 games] to look as good as that?

    At least hes honest enough to say what everyone else is thinking.....
     
  21. Mad Jack

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    Sorry to spoil any illusions, but I think you'll find they're all in it to make money. ;) I thought that came across more in the Microsoft conference than the Sony one. While MS spoke about expanding the market and delivering next-gen game experiences, Sony actually showed us what we might expect from these new platforms. Sure, Sony might over-optimistic about what their machine will deliver. But at least I found it interesting. Check out the Getaway PS3 technical demo with it's amazing lighting, shadows and overall detail and also the bath-tub demos with their amazing physics routines. :rotfl:


    But you should bear in mind that when Edge asked Mr Allard why Microsoft had decided to call their new machine the Xbox 360, he said: "We couldn't call it Xbox 2 because it isn't in the same era. Sony put out two consoles in the same era - so PS1 and PS2 made sense. But we're jumping ahead."
    Whereas, if he was being "honest", he would have said: "We were worried that people might believe our machine is inferior to Sony's because it has a lesser version number."

    I would take anything Mr Allard says with a pinch of salt... :rolleyes:
     
  22. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    I agree 100% - at the end of the day they are all a bunch of shareholders looking to make some money. The likes of E3 is used to start the propaganda machines rolling as they spout out their corporate bulls**t in an attempt to excite the industry and gamers alike. M$ & Sony are exactly the same thing with a different name which is why I can't understand the brand loyalty thing that people have with consoles these days. OK if you go back to the 8 & 16 bit eras then things were a bit different. There were stacks of small (often 1 man band) games developers and the industry was all about the games (just as Footie was once about the football). Now it's all about the money (which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO, just the result of success in a capitalist society) and I no longer feel any sort of brand attachment to any console.

    None of us know which disc format will prove to be the most successful in the next generation of consoles. Blu ray may have a huge effect on gaming or games may still come out mainly on DVD with the Blu Ray features being used almost soley for HD Films. As always the games will remain the most important factor and if the 360 has the best games on DVD where as the PS3 has a load of shoddy games on blu ray then the 360 will win. Personally I feel that all of the new consoles will be a success - at least I hope they are :smashin: .
     
  23. Munkey Boy

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    Some interesting points here - but I have to disagree about they're only in it for the money. I'm not saying they're not interested in making money, but just that they realise people aren't stupid and won't buy a machine that isn't made for the gaming experience we all expect nowadays. If you listen to someone like J Allard speak, you can tell he's played games and the enthuisiasm and knowledge comes across in his choice of words.

    MS pay alot of attention to detail - the Xbox was a step above, from things like the matching green cable ties in the packaging right through to the fan configuration altering on the 360 dependant on whether it's vertical or horizontal. Someone's put alot of time and effort into the design of this stuff, and you don't get that if you're just thinking about the money.

    Blu Ray is an exciting project, but I can see it delaying the PS3, or at least making it prohibitively expensive for it's first year. The first gen of games will still probably come out on DVD9 anyway as it'll take some serious development time to create more than 9GB of content, and most devs haven't even had a dev kit yet...!
     
  24. CAS FAN

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    I do think it is about the money personally but that doesn't mean that the individuals working on the projects don't care about games. Essentially the companies have to produce machines that appeal to us so they get people in who are capable of designing such machines.

    My point is that there is no difference between all 3 of the major console manufactures. People (often the companies themselves) try to push an image that one company almost makes consoles for the love of it where as another is a blood sucking leach who only cares about ripping us off and getting our money.

    The reality is that all three are somewhere in between. Producing good, successful & appealing consoles is what they are there to do and i'm sure that all of the people working on these projects care about what they are designing & making. The bottom line will always be sales & profit though (obviously) and that goes for all 3 companies.

    I never really believe what I hear at these E3 shows (until I see it in the plastic) as all companies naturally hype up their products. Don't get me wrong, I watch the stuff and find it pretty interesting, but I do take what ever they say with more than a pinch of salt. ;)
     
  25. Member 55145

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    Not all about the money?

    Ok then, why was Halo2 rushed out, because MS wanted it out quickly to make money for christmas. you even heard the DEV teams at bungie complain in the limited edition DVD about time constraints.

    So you can round it upto Game Developers care about their games, afterall its there lives blood. Publishers care about getting em out quickly *cough* EA *cough* MS *cough*

    Thank god we still have the likes of Rare who are not letting MS bully them into quick releases and Nintendo just do their own thing but do it well, even if it means coming 3rd place
     
  26. Munkey Boy

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    We're going way OT here, but Halo 2 rushed out? You could look at it the other way and realise Bungie fell way behind, hence the release date kept slipping. MS finally put their foot down and said get it sorted, we want it out for the holiday period (perfectly understandable).

    You never create a perfect game. You can polish til the cows come home, but apart from the slightly abrupt ending there are no flaws in Halo 2 I could spot. Still one of the best multiplayer experiences, regardless of format.
     
  27. Member 55145

    Member 55145
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    Well i have to give you a bit of credit there, I had always said that Bungie were far too busy arsing around playing the game instead of making it, not to mention the amount of days out they had...I thought they were all a bunch of hacks at the end of the day, but I still think MS rushed it out (Like they intend to do with Halo3)

    Halo2 perfect? I dont think so, not by a long shot, thats why they keep patching the damn thing lol

    *looks at topic title* How the hell did we get onto halo 2? :rolleyes:
     
  28. harrisuk

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    Sony make money on their consoles currently and so do Nintendo. MS dont.
    MS certainly aspire to this and have made it pretty clear this time around that they plan to make money on the 360 at some stage.

    However they are still establishing themselves so are obviously willing to loose money for the time being to build their brand and gain market share.

    I dont really see what the issue if with this to be honest, they are all big multinational companies, the bottom line is they are all in business to make money for their shareholders :confused:
     
  29. Mad Jack

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    So do I. While the idea of a single format holds obvious appeal, I wouldn't want to see the industry become less competitive. :)
     
  30. CAS FAN

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    Exactly. Whilst an all in one single format sounds great, you lose the element of hardware competition that drives forward development. Each company wants the best console and this means that they are constantly trying to develop new features, more powerful chips and better services to out do the competition. It would be good to see 3 consoles all with roughly equal market share but I feel that we may end up with a 2 horse race with Sony & M$.
     

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