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XBox 2 is not backwards compatible!

Discussion in 'Xbox Forums' started by Taz, Jun 30, 2004.

  1. Taz

    Taz
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    I Just saw this on TV so I did a search on google..

    Came up with this as well as many other sites saying the same.


    "Apparently some top Xbox execs are quietly confirming that the Xbox 2 isn’t going to be backwards compatible with original Xbox games. Seems that since they’re using a different kind of processor and graphics chip set, getting the emulation to work was going to be a real pain in the ass so they’re just dropping it entirely."
     
  2. Taz

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    Microsoft today slammed claims that Xbox 2 will not play Xbox games as "irresponsible... pulp fiction".

    The statement, published by web site Team Xbox, a site that's done as much speculating on Xbox 2's specifications as anyone else has, notes that: "Microsoft hasn't made any announcements regarding the next generation, so it's far too early to speculate about specifics, including backward compatibility."

    Not so. This is exactly the right time to speculate about specifics, for the very same reason Microsoft cites. But we digress...

    Microsoft's statement says there's no point talking about Xbox 2 because it's too early. We can infer from that that the company hasn't made it's mind up yet, and may take a while to do so. And until it does, MS says, anything anyone writes about the matter is pure speculation.

    But if that's the case, why is Microsoft is sufficiently concerned about all this "irresponsible... media conjecture", as it calls such speculation, to issue such a statement that drools on about observers' apparent willingness to "compromise fact"? "Xbox fans," it adds, "are smart enough to distinguish truth from sensational reporting."

    That suggests the speculation is wrong. But if it's too early to say one way or the other, Microsoft's own statement that the speculation is incorrect could also prove to be wrong, by the company's own admission.

    "Blackadder, you twist and turn like a... like a twisty-turning thing."

    It's worth remembering that the source for the original story is said to be someone close to the Xbox 2 project. That Microsoft might well have at the very least considered dropping backwards compatibility seems likely, and for sensible reasons: it will be costly to do and there's no guarantee that incorporating it will sell any more units.
     
  3. supersonic87

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    Microsoft recently (within the last yaer), purchased an emulation company which owns the code to one of the most powerful power PC->x86 emulators around, i can only really see one use for Microsoft to have bought the company (whos name slips my mind at the moment).

    Rich
     
  4. Iain Shields

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    An emulation fix is possible, even more so with that news about M$ buying the emulator company (thanks mate, hadn't heard that)...

    But really, is it that important? I mean how many PS2 owners play PS1 games on their machine??? I'm sure there's a few, but I personally don't know of any.

    IMHO backwards compatability isn't a big deal, I believe the PS2 has been the only console to implement it (besides handhelds) and even they didn't do it very well with some of the higher profile PS1 games not working on the PS2, if memory serves.

    Regards,
    Iain.
     
  5. TheBigApple

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    I've never seen the point of having a backwards compatible console, once I've played a game I never go back to it, so I tend to trade it in for another title.
     
  6. Sinzer

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    I play PS1 shoot-em-ups and RPGs on my PS2 :)
     
  7. Miyazaki

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    I don't see the point of backwards compatibility either.

    The only console I play is my Amiga 500 and that is on a pc emulator!

    Bill Gates has a personal fourtune of $60 billion, so money is no object to his plans to dominate the home console market.

    I just hope Sony can pull something out of the bag with PS3, so that MS don't run away with the home console market in years to come.
     
  8. Gary D

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    Guys you may not see the point of backwards compatible games but the parents of johnny the ps1 kid certainly did when it came to buying him a ps2 so he could still play the games the bought him the previous christmas.

    remember most kids cant afford the console it mum and dad that fork out for it. just because we can afford it doesnt mean that the teenage market can.

    If xbox 2 ISNT backward compatible then it will be a big big mistake especially if PS3 is. Never under estimate parents and there buying power, or kids and there pester power.


    Gary
     
  9. Squiffy

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    Erm.... So you can't see the point of backwards compatability, but you do play old games on new equipment? :rolleyes: :zonked: :p
     
  10. gizlaroc

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    Totally pointless imho, when you can get a ps1 for about a tenner, why do you need backwards compatability?
     
  11. Miyazaki

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    Exactly!

    There is a difference between old games and retro games mate.

    I'll probably want to play xbox games again in 10 years, but not next year or whenever PS3/XBOX2 is out
     
  12. Squiffy

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    What difference is that then?

    It's just playing old games from old games machines on newer ones.

    Surely it's exactly the same?
     
  13. harrisuk

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    Yes absolutely pointless. Xbox will be £70 by this christmas. By release of the new console I am sure they will be available on ebay for £20 - £30 less than the price of a new game.

    I am sure that MS will spend a fortune making it work but its not a selling point for most people. Sony made a big deal of it but none of the people I know with PS2 actually play ps1 games on it.
     
  14. Squiffy

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    OK, it might not be a selling point for most people, but it will be a selling point for some. Plus in the era of on-line gaming thru XBox live, people have much more incentive to keep on playing an older game with clans/mates, etc.

    If it is backwards compatible (and I hope it is), then it's a bonus and to be welcomed.
     
  15. Gary D

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    It will be a selling point as i pointed out earlier* and not only but how many black plastic (or silver boxes) do you want under your TV? Some of us spend 1000's on nice furniture and decoration (i.e not playing in our bedrooms) i've already got 7 items under my TV, and frankly i can do without anymore. furthermore i dont want to have to keep buy more and more AV furniture to house it in. Let alone the issues on how all this stuff is connected to the TV in the first place. I personally dont want to have to keep unpluging leads from the back the TV as it not going to do the sockets any good at all.


    Gary

    * i'd like to point out i work in a game shop and can tell you it is a selling point.
     
  16. Paul Williams

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    Well, not a an X Box user, but someone who values backward compatibility one of the reasons X Box never was considered was because it was a MS product and therefore by default I would have expected it to have a very limited lifespan. Currently I have a Game Cube with the bolt on Game Boy Player. The users of this range from 3 to 50 so the ability to play everything from Game Boy + Colour + Advance & Game Cube games (and added multiplayer function across the Game Boy as well as the Cube) has been a real bonus. I look forward to the realease of the DS and will consider purchasing as it is backward compatible with the GBA.

    Paul
     
  17. Pooon

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    But the sort of people who play online alot(ie the people that join clans etc) will surely buy the new version of the game that they play(Rainbow Six 3 or whatever) on the new console(XB2 or PS3) so for the newer console to play the old game is a pretty pointless exercise.

    Yes it may well be a selling point for you to convince Mr+Mrs Jones to buy the new console for little jonny, but in reality is that 'feature' ever going to be used? Its like a 700x digital zoom on a camcorder, looks impressive, can't find a practical use for it. :)
     
  18. Iain Shields

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    You must be one of the few then :D
     
  19. Iain Shields

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    I have to agree there, it is a selling point for shop owners to convince parents that they are getting value for money... but as "iamtheone" says, the feature will hardly be used, maybe for 1 or 2 months but thats it.

    The point was made by Garyd earlier "Never under estimate parents and there buying power, or kids and there pester power."

    True, but it works for both point's of view... little Johnny wants a console, parents buy the one with the best valueable features (backwars compatility), Johnny plays his old games for a while but then pester's the life out of his parents for that launch game that everyone wants... Johnny gets his game and spends all his time playing it leaving the old one's to collect dust.

    So yes, it's a good feature for a few, aswell as not too clued up parents (no dissrespect meant here, in regard to the console market only) who want a good deal and of course the manufacturer (Sony, M$) to advertise... but IMHO will rarely get used...

    I think I've now taken up both point's of view now :confused: :D

    Regards,
    Iain.
     
  20. CAS FAN

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    To be honest backward compatability isn't a big feature as you can just keep the old console, which let's face it will be worth sod all by the time the new one comes out.

    It is something that can be used to con parents into buying a console though, as they are easily swayed by the "if you buy this one you have access to thousands of games instantly, but if you buy this one then you can only play 6 games initially" kind of thing that people who work in games shops churn out!

    I played a couple of PSX games on my PS2 when it came out but since then the only PSX game i've played is R-Types.

    I personally think that if the feature can be added with out it adding to the cost of the machine then fine, why not. If it's going to increase the cost then it's not worth it IMO.

    How many people buy a DVD that also plays VHS?? They are available but probably don't sell that well. Old technology is yeseterdays news and usually once you have tasted the new, you don't want to go back to the old!
     
  21. Sinzer

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    It will be interesting to see how this pans out. You will see plenty of old PC games being played online, because usually what happens is that when the new game comes out the developers "tweak" it. Quite often this can result in what was once a really great multiplayer game now becomes a really awful multiplayer game.

    TBH I don't think backwards compatibility is a bad thing, and if the X-Box 2 is as powerful as MS claims it will be then it will more than likely be able to emulate it, at which point they can let geeks do it for them.

    I wonder if they will make X-Box easier to mod this time, seems this time that the biggest selling point of the X-Box is the amount of customisation it can handle.
     
  22. harrisuk

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    Well this is a good point. When you consider what you can do to xboxes its amazing really. I can stream video and MP3 over my network to it, you can even run linux on them. The boot menus, the HD loader, the emulators you could go on for hours about all the extra stuff you can get out of these things.

    Just played a heavily modded version of Halo with different weapons maps and vehicles for multiplayer. Brilliant. I look at these things and wonder why people buy other consoles but we dont want to get into that discussion again.
     
  23. CAS FAN

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    Whatever the new X-Box can do, I still can't see it impacting much on Sony's console dominance. The battle is as much about image and people owning the "cool" console as it is about what it can do.

    X-Box owners, especially the ones who enjoy modding them etc. are still classed by the wider market as Geeks (much as the majority of video game players were back in the 80's) and the market is therefore very niche. Sony's Playstation brand is seen as "cool" by the wider market and the name alone will shift 5-6 million more PS3's than X-Box2's.

    Microsoft are getting there and if they can keep churning out a higher quality console then they may erode Sony's market share. I feel this will take time though and it may be several generations of console before we see a level sales playing field. The most important thing for M$ is whether they can get people thinking that the XB is cool. The design of the new console will help in this area as frankly (with the inclusion of a Hard Drive) the original XB looked awful, whilst offering a fantastic feature. I guess the PS2 by comparison (whilst being a less featured console) looked sleeker and more stylish.

    It will be interesting to see the battle commence and i'm sure that M$ will eat into Sony's market. At a guess I would say that if you look to 4 years after the next gen launch you will have roughly the following sales figures:

    Sony PS3 - 55 million
    M$ X-Box2 - 18 million
    Nintendo GC2 - 9 million

    This puts Sony slightly down, Nintendo down and XB slightly up.
     
  24. Miyazaki

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    I don't agree mate. I heard recently that XBOX is outselling or has been outselling PS2 in the states recently, and I see the console markets shifting next time around.

    You don't realise how much money MS has. The PS1 and subsequently PS2 conducted a 'Blitzkreig' against the media, complete saturation of such 'cool' events as skateboarding and 'xtreme' events, loads of tv adverts, etc.

    It is only in people's perception that one console is cooler than the other, and you know that Gates won't stop at anything until he has complete dominance! Scum!

    I don't see a new Nintendo console myself. We have already heard so much about the new Sony and MS consoles, but next to nothing about a new Nintendo one! With their haemorrhaging sales, and the fact that most high streets either not stocking Ninty products or reducing their floor space to one shelf squeezed ever tighter between XBOX and PS2, i'll believe in a new Nintendo console when I see one.

    Apparently next time round it will be the MS console and the Sony console that will switch roles, as rumours abound about the reduction in features of the nextbox (dear me :rolleyes: ;) ), whilst I have heard that Sony want to wait, possibly up to a year after the nextbox release of a, rumoured, 2005 as they want the best dvd drive in their console.

    As they say, the proof is in the pudding!
     
  25. harrisuk

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    Ok rant mode.

    I partly agree with what gthom3 says but I can sense a bit of a shift in power going on in the console market. Next time around PS3 will be the leader but I think there advantage will be erroded alot more that the numbers that have stated.

    This is partly because MS have learned from there mistakes on xbox (ie they were too expensive to make) and partly because the competition will not be as tough next time out. Why do I think this ?

    Ps3 cant match MS technology or budget and next time they wont be able to compete on price either. As you said all they have is their cool "name", and names dont last forever (Ask Sega)

    For a long time Sony have domianted the gaming market and consumer electronics but knowing a little about this sector things are going very badly on the consumer electronics side at Sony. They have been arrogant for a long time thinking that people would buy Sony TVs and other av gear beacause of their reputation and the "quality" of their products,

    They looked down their noses when the Koreans and Chineese entered their tradional markets.

    "Why will people buy a Korean or Chineese TV before a Sony". Big mistake.

    All of a sudden the Koreans are tuning out better Plasma and LCD technology than Sony. Better and cheaper. They have lost their advange in the new techologies where all the money is. And they are losing market share big time in their core business sector as a consequence. Cutting jobs, closing factories. This would have been unthinkable 3 or 4 years ago. So there are problems on the consumer electronic side at Sony.

    Then there is Nintendo. Being frank Nintendo are all but finished in the console market as Sega where before them. They might not be willing to admit it yet, but if they dont realise that they need to concentrate on their core hand held market (Which they are good at and makes all their money) they will end up going the same way as Sega. The gamecube has done very poorly considering the amount of effort they have but into it and is now in third place in every market except Japan.

    I know Japan is the biggest market but as Sega found it cant support a console on its own. And in America and Europe where most of the money is now Gamecube has taken a battering. Its been sold at a loss for most of the time its been on the market. Most European retailers have withdrawn support for Gamecube and many in America are following.

    This is humiliating and it destroyed Segas credability when it happened with the Saturn. When Nintendo release their next console the retailers will remember and it means that in effect the next Nintendo console is already a failure (Anyone who has worked in gaming retail will understand this) Its what happened with the Dreamcast. They did it right, the technology was superior to PS2 and it was at market first. But it failed because of their previous failures.

    In short I see MS taking market share from both of their competitiors based on :

    (1) Superior technology

    (2) Bigger pockets - For marketing, buying / bribing software houses to promote their console and loss leading on hardware.

    (3) Weakend competition. No serious challenge from Nintendo resulting in loss of their market share and Sony wilting under another challenge to their core market.

    Sony know its comming. Thats why they are trying to diversify into the handheld market. It will certainly be intering to watch anyway :)
     
  26. Miyazaki

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    Thing is though Harris, with multi-media mobile phones encroaching slowly on the handheld gaming market, a superior Sony handheld the the new Nintendo handheld, and rumours of an MS foray into this same market, Nintendo have to pull a very large one out of the bag with their new DS!

    Gaming is Nintendo's major market, where as it is a tax loss for MS, and for Sony the 'Playstation' brand accounts for around about 50% of their profits (I think?). Nintendo don't have much to fall back on while their market share is being slashed all the time.

    It is time they concentrated on their fantastic games and let the big boys make the consoles.
     
  27. harrisuk

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    What I was trying to say is that everyone just expects Sony to carry on as market leader because of their "Name" and "Brand".

    This is very very dangerous for Sony.

    You are right Playstation makes up half of Sonys profits and they are heavily reliant on it. I know for a fact they are looking on in abosulte horror as MS walking all over their "patch" with the intention to carry on losing huge sums of money for the foresable future.

    And just because Bill Game likes the look of the gaming market. MS are doing it for the right reasons, they want to diversify as they too are reliant on a monopoly in one sector all be it a much bigger and more lucrative market ; pc operating systems.
     
  28. Sinzer

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    Can we bring this back on topic please :p
     
  29. dynamic turtle

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    Personally, I agree with GaryD & Gizlaroc.

    IMO, the PS2's emulation of PS1 games is so bad, that I BOUGHT BACK my PS1! I also experienced memory card & peripheral compatability issues with the PS2.

    So yes, by the time you get hazy-eyed about Xbox games, the console itself will sell for £40 s/hand and Xenon's emulation of Xbox games will be so bad that you'll want to run them on Xbox anyway.

    Also, how am I going to transfer save game files between the consoles? I'll have to buy a bloody memory card :(

    GaryD rightly pointed out the space/aesthetic issues about having 12 consoles under your tv, not to mention connectivity (i have to daisy-chain my consoles through TWO rgb switchboxes AND i'm using "multi-console" cables!). Not quite sure where the Xenon will fit!

    DT
     
  30. dynamic turtle

    dynamic turtle
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    Who gives a toss about next-gen hardware when we have current-gen software like Halo 2, Half-Life 2, Doom 3, Metroid Prime and GT4????

    DT
     

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