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X1 DLP Rainbows

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Simon Fitz, Jul 29, 2003.

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  1. I've Never see them

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  2. I've seen them sometimes, they don't bother me

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. I've seen them a lot, they are quite bothersome

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  4. I've seen too much, I'm changing to LCD !

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. Simon Fitz

    Simon Fitz
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    Hi,

    I just bought an infocus X1 ... I have not seen any rainbows yet but I'm interested in other experience.

    What is the general view on this subject ?
     
  2. Paul Williams

    Paul Williams
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    Hi Simon,

    During the demo of the X1 the only rainbow artefacts I saw were at the end when I walking arround the room, not looking at the screen directly. I having now got the projector the rainbow artefacts are more evident. They would appear to be film dependent and I suspect dependent on how tired your eyes are when viewing. I make this observation because I have recently watched a film that seemed to show a high instance of rainbows, but on the second viewing - when more relaxed none were evident!

    Paul
     
  3. Peter G

    Peter G
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    Demoed an X1 just this morning, and for me the big factor was the amount of light in a scene. A scene on Tattooine was very bright and had rainbows everywhere. Immediately afterwards is the chase through the asteroid field and that had virtually no rainbows.

    Has anyone ever suggested that the key here may be the degree to which your pupils are dilated?

    Pupils wide open for a dark scene = no rainbows.
    Pupils contracted for a bright scene = rainbows.

    This would also explain why some users find that various filters can help. They will cut down the brightness somewhat and reduce the effect?

    Maybe I should try watching the X1 with shades on! :eek:)
     
  4. Paul Williams

    Paul Williams
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    Peter,

    My experience would suggest the exact opposite, the instances where the rainbows are more evident are during dark scenes with isolated highlights. However, as stated above, this is not always the case and I have never experienced a single rainbow with an animated film.

    Paul
     
  5. Simon Fitz

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    Hi,

    I finally received my 2M wide Da-Lite screen and had my first proper viewing session with the X1 ... guess what ... Rainbows everywhere !!!

    On the THX picture set up facility you can really see them everywhere.

    Then I tried "Monsters Inc" ... no rainbows at all ...

    Finally I sat down to view all 3 1/2 hours of extended "Lord of the Rings: Fellowship" ... plenty of rainbows during the movie but the basic X1 picture is amazing (when you are not noticing the rainbows) ... my jury is still out as to whether I will change out to LCD. Why ? ... you may well ask ... read on ...

    I have looked at many forums for information on this "issue" and there is a hell of a lot of debate about rainbows out there folks !!! ... I mean loads and loads to the point of tedium (said he without any remorse for his own personal contribution to the aforementioned tedium) ...

    This has made me a little obsessive about seeing them myself ... so when I sit down to watch a movie I am not relaxed. I am stressing myself out by continually being on guard for rainbows and darting my eyes across the screen to "check" ... and when are you most likely to see a rainbow ? ... when you are not relaxed ... and when your eyes are darting about !!! ... is this "normal" film viewing behaviour ??? ... NO !!

    Why did I select "Fellowship" ? ... that's easy ... because it is very, very, very long ... so there were times when I forgot about rainbows and was simply enjoying the movie ... and guess what ? ... No RAINBOWS (well ... very, very few) ... so my theory is this: You can beat this thing if you can just learn forget about it and get down to business !! ... and be patient !!!

    Anyone with more experience care to comment on this "thoery" ??

    Cheers,

    Simon:confused:
     
  6. Paul Williams

    Paul Williams
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    Hi Simon,

    As with all purchases, when new, I feel there is a period where you are looking for anything point to a fault, or the evidence that you have either made a good/bad choice. During the demo of the X1 I had no idea of what to expect, but was just astounded at the quality of the picture for the price (compared to the AE100 which was actually £100 more at that time). Even now, this aspect has not worn off and all I want to do is see if get the piture quality even better. As stated in my previous posting, the same movie viewed several times has had differing instances and volume of rainbow artefacts. This would point to there being more to this than just the projector itself, but an interaction with the viewer and/or changes to the surrounding environment - time will tell!

    Paul
     
  7. Simon Fitz

    Simon Fitz
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    Thanks Paul,

    You make a good point ... when you have to shell out a lot of sheckles for anything you become an instant troubleshooter / critic !!

    Watched "The Two towers" last night ... beautiful images ... though I still have not got the hang of setting up the X1 picture control for optimum effect ... still got them darn rainbows too but... alleliuiah ... I am starting to become a believer !!

    Any advice on techniques for setting up the X1 picture ?

    Regards,

    Simon
     
  8. Paul Williams

    Paul Williams
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    Simon

    I’m perhaps the wrong person to ask, as I feel happy with the performance straight out of the box at present. The only thing I’ve done is to compare the ‘presentation’ to ‘film’ to ‘video’ modes. Film/video would appear to have no significant differences, but presentation mode is quite brash and shows a loss of fine detail. The other issue is that I wouldn’t even bother changing any of the colour settings until I’ve acclimatised to the projector (this would apply to anything) to the point where I’m fully familiar with its inherent strengths and weaknesses. The only changes on the horizon for the next 100hrs or so will be to compare S-video to component inputs – as soon as the adaptor arrives.

    You may however wish to use this link http://myhometheater.homestead.com/X1Review.html as the review looked at measuring & optimising the projectors output. But presumably not based on PAL input. Some other useful stuff here also.

    Paul
     
  9. Simon Fitz

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    Hi Paul,

    You mentioned an adaptor for connection of your X1 ... this is another area where a lack of forethought on my part is proving to be something of a headahce.

    I have no problems using the s-Video output on my DVD player but the problem arises when I try to connect up my other sources (Digital TV with 1 scart, VCR with 2 scarts, Regular cable, PS2, HC AV sound system).

    At the moment I use my VCR to separate the sound from the DigiTV & Cable for the HC audio amp, the resulting VCR video output is then connected alongside the PS2 through a 3 to 1 scart adaptor to my "normal" TV.

    The problem is I have no obvious place to connect in my X1 when for example I want to watch a football match on Digital TV or use the PS2 ... that is without continually having to disturb all the other connections.

    I am toying with the idea of using a scart switch box with composite outputs as well as standard SCART (for the TV). I could then take the yellow output for my projector. But perhaps there is a better solution ? Even one which presents s-video ?

    Any suggestions ? Do you know of any good online retailers of adaptors with lots of optiuons ?

    Thanks,

    Simon
     
  10. Paul Williams

    Paul Williams
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    Hi Simon,

    Just as before I'm going to be the wrong person to ask! I really am the font of no knowledge. I have one source a DVD player, so I don't have the problem (and never likely too, wouldn't even have TV for myself). The adaptor I referred to was the Component to (special) S-video unit that you probably got bundled with the X1, but as I purchased a presentation version, didn't.

    As to your problem, are all the sources scart equipped, if so then perhaps one of the auto scart switch units such as the Trilogy sold by Lektropacks may be the answer? www.lektropacks.co.uk but isn't this another reason some people go down the scaler route as well - some I believe have source switching. Again, for myself a progressive scan DVD unit will be about as far as I'm likely to go. I would perhaps open a new thread for this specific question or do a search, many others must have the same problem - I realise I am in the minority who don't watch sport, have no real interest in more tv channels, games and so on. but as the kids grow-up I know that's all going to change

    Paul
     
  11. Kramer

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    X1 = rainbow city for me I'm afraid| :(
     
  12. theritz

    theritz
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    Out of curiousity, Simon, where did you source the X1 - here or bought from overseas ??


    Sean G.
     
  13. Simon Fitz

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    Hi,

    I tried everywhere to get a good price in Ireland for the X1. The suppliers here are either rip off merchants, their cost base is too high or Infocus don't care about the Irish market.

    Personally I think all three of the above are at the root of the problem !! From my limited experience the Irish market needs to improve or at least cop on to itself about pricing !!

    I ended up purchasing an ex demo unit from http://www.projectorpoint.co.uk. They were able to demo the unit at their offices in Richmond (I travel to the UK often for work). If you are calling them ask for Helen ... she gave me the good price ... but bear in mind you could do a lot better again in the USA ... I just wanted the supplier to be reasonably local.

    Regards,

    Simon
     
  14. theritz

    theritz
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    Simon,

    Thanks for that - there isn't quite the same choice in the Irish market, it's true, probably down to market size as well as the fact that front projection for home cinema is really only beginning to emerge now in popularity.


    All the best,


    Sean G.
     
  15. Simon Fitz

    Simon Fitz
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    Hi,

    no problem ... if you are having problems getting a demo let me know and we can arrange something ...

    Cheers,

    Simon
     
  16. Mr Bump

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    Hi Simon,

    I have a Optoma Themescene H56 DLP projector and get on with it great! I did see a few rainbows to begin with, but like you said - it almost seemed to be because I was looking for them! As soon as I learnt to relax and just enjoy the film I saw them less and less until now, 2 months down the line, I hardly ever see them! Admittedley, the 56 has a 6 segment 4x speed colour wheel, which does cut down the instances of rainbows (I saw them a lot more when I demoed the H50 with its 4 segment 2x speed wheel) but I think many people that initially see them can 'learn' not to. And my wife for example has never seen them and nor have all but one of my friends who have been round to watch movies. I remember sitting ridgedly staring straight at the screen when I first got it, so that I didn't see rainbows - now I can relax and look all around the screen with nary a rainbow in sight! And the overall picture quality compared to LCDs in the same price range I demoed more than makes up for a few rainbows! :)
     
  17. Simon Fitz

    Simon Fitz
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    I am trying out an assortment of filters in an attempt to improve the picture and reduce rainbows ... does anybody know any good site with tips on tweaking for the X1 ?
     

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