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WOULDNT IT BE NICE.....

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by charles, Dec 14, 2000.

  1. charles

    charles
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    Wouldnt it be nice if;-

    (1)You could see a side by side comparison of rgb,s-vhs and component video-and actually see a difference..

    (2)If equipment reviewers stopped saying;-caveats,bang for the buck and other stupid terminology..


    (3)if people stopped saying the Matrix had a great picture(when its quite low on the picture stakes...)


    (4)If products were reviewed against each other irrespective of price-and the ratings reflected this...


    (5)if home cinema choice reviewed;-line doublers,quadruplers,screens,electrostatic speakers,runco projectors..


    (6)if featured installations were rated...


    (7)If there was an article on where you would buy original cinema paraphanalia....


    (8)If an av amp manufacturer had dsp modes like;-odeon leicester square,empire thx cinema,(..and they sounded realistic)

    (9)If an av amp had the sound quality of a high end hi-fi amp....

    (10)If high quality 3d technology was available(holo-projector?)

    (11)If nxt technology could produce quality sound...


    (12)If will smith was abandoned on a island somewhere...for ever...


    (13)If you could upgrade regularly and get a fair price for your second hand kit...


    (14)if dealers were completely truthful....


    (15)If the island that will smith was on sunk....


    (16)If computers wern`t such ********...
     
  2. LV426

    LV426
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    ..........
    (17) If reviewers actually paid attention to things that affect TV picture quality like geometry, convergence, voltage regulation

    (18) If all DVD players would play all DVDs

    (19) If speling misstakes were a thing of the past

    (20) If more (or all) video projectors were optimised for 16x9 images (like widescreen TVs are)

    (21) If Charles stopped telling us how much he hates the (excellent IMHO) Sony VPL-VW10HT

    (22) If TV manufacturers made TVs that actually display a good picture (see 17)

    (23) If we could buy stuff for the same prices they pay in Europe and/or the USA

    (24) If Disney stopped ripping us off with their poor value software

    (25) If the "THX" logo on software actually meant it was of optimal quality

    ------------------
    You should not drink and bake.....

    [This message has been edited by nigel (edited 15-12-2000).]
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    One and nine are already possible.

    Gordon

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  4. ReTrO

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    I agree with gordon on no. 9.
    The Arcam FMJ is basically a tip-top hifi amp with a few extra gubbins. Easliy as good a normal hifi.

    Rick

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  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The Linn 5103 is curently their highest performance two channel pre-amp. It also has the benefit of dd/dts decoding of a very high magnitude. Although I have heard higher performance two channel only audio pre-amps, their number is two!

    ADA's Cinema reference is also a very high quality audio preamp and the TAG av32R, when coupled with their DVD32r has the second highest quality of CD replay I have ever heard.

    Point taken on number 1 though.....

    Gordon

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  6. charles

    charles
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    gordon-number 1...maybe-in 1 in a thousand shops....number 9....no way...
     
  7. Black 5

    Black 5
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    Gordon,

    You're in a privileged position - if the TAG combination is the 2nd best, what's the best?
     
  8. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    I would take a guess that Gordon is referring to the Linn CD12.

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    "Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability."
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Liam is correct. The CD12 is quite astounding, but I feel the DVD32r is even more astounding as it plays DVD's as well!

    I do feel lucky though that I can hear alot of these things over an extended period of time in relaxing situations rather than at shows where you don't get any real idea of a products capabilities, audio wise anyway.

    Gordon

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  10. charles

    charles
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    Gordon,
    I agree entirely with your choices of quality kit,BUT...there is still a huge void between the top sounding hi-fi amps and the top sounding av amps.
    Do you remember as well,the pioneer a400 hi-fi amp of a few years ago?...it put a lot of noses out of joint in the hi-fi world-because for the price,it was trouncing hi-fi amps 10 times more expensive!!...but i digress...i have yet to hear the warm ...deep sound i have heard from esoteric hi-fi amps-linn and arcam products have always sounded too neutral for me-though some might say,that is precisely what an amplifier should be..but for me,the closest i have heard to a warm and deep hi-fi amp in the av world was the Mcintosh rig.

    I actually think...and this is radical i know..that overall sound quality has declined in the last 10 years....in another thread i spoke of the best sound i have ever heard..it was a `70`s Sansui amp...two big old speakers and a mono nat king cole record...
    There are still many who believe that the best sound comes from valve amps...i love the home cinema game as much as anyone-but its more about crap sound modes than good sound...this is i think where it fails...in addition to this,what the japanese think sounds good and what we do are two different matters.(the japanese like the high treble,sharp sound....)..And we gotta remember that most of the av products come from Japan....What i cannot understand with the Yamahas and Denons of this world is why they dont drop most of these silly sound modes.I mean how many peole with the yamaha dspa2 for example,only use a couple of the dsp modes?(and they all sound like they been recorded in a bucket...) ..its also intersting to note that most japanese giants employ the same chips from zoran/motorola and the like....the same power supplies...in short their all clones with different badges..

    There is one giant that should be able to get it right and that is sony--being that they, like dts and dolby, have their own sound format-sdds-you would think they would be in the BEST position to translate this to the market place.

    But who knows whats to come....
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Charles,

    I would not class the Pioneer A400 as a high class audio product, regardless of what any magazine reviewer may have said in the early 90's. It could be easily beaten by a Creek amp at the time.

    The best audio power amp I have ever heard is by a german company called Bonnec. It is their new 6 channel amplifier. It is astounding. If I had enough money and three way speakers I'd buy one just to tri-amp my main speakers!

    The most expensive and worst sounding home theater system I ever heard had McIntosh amplification. The blame cannot be put at their door though. It was a joint effort from Monster, McIntosh, California Audio Technology (somebody or other speakers) and an acoustics design/panel company. This was a $500,000 system built in a custom designed room at CEDIA 2 years ago in New Orleans. Truly appalling! The picture was incredible though ( two stacked Runco 991 ultra's and a Stewart studiotek 130 screen)

    Gordon

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    Intelligent Solutions for Intelligent Homes !

    [This message has been edited by Gordon, StereoStereo (edited 20-12-2000).]
     
  12. Black 5

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    Gordon,

    Do you know if the DVD32R can play both region 1 and 2 or can be hacked in some way?

    Black
     
  13. charles

    charles
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    Gordon,
    We all know that two demos with the same product can produce different results for different people-its all about personal preference-the mkintosh setup i heard was their thx system-and ive never been fond of thx-but it was great!!(i always thought thx a poor sound mode-though thx would have you believe otherwise- and never liked the high frequency cut-which to me dulled the sound...)

    in addition to this,my second favourite was a theta casablanca,krell power amps, and martin logan speakers-the mask orchestra scene was amazing-and there were times...a few...when the sound quality was as good as anything i`d ever heard-i thought at the time--but the reality was this was a 20k setup-that could have been thrashed by most 5 k hi-fi setups!

    BUT...the high end hi-fi game got silly,and reviewers started acting like expensive wine tasters...the advent of home cinema was like a breath of fresh air-for all us cinema fans it was heaven-it was simple and unpretentious......but guess whats started happening now,its getting elitist-just like the hi-fi game....its getting to a point where if you aint got a 30k setup and a dedicated home cinema room you might as well shoot yourself!!!...in short,its become snobby....i have championed the ellie as you know-but my singing of the praises of a 4k crt with line doubler is i know,not popular to some people who think that its all about spend more-get more-be major league with your nice sparkly seleco ht200!!!!

    But 2k to me is a lot of money-and i expecta lot of difference-thats why i didnt buy the seleco or the sony lcd for that matter-because i couldnt justify the outlay-the improvement wasnt there!!!!

    People are banging on about the seleco`s 600;1 contrast ratio-oooooohhhhh(half that of the ellie)...see what i mean...but its the reviewers that dictate the vogue for most of these people-not there own common sense-and i am still appaled by the most understated positive review i have ever read-and that was the review of the ellie-if this product had been made by seleco it would have had a three page review and bob tomalski vocally masturbating profusely with his caveats and bang for the buck comments....if ever you needed proof that this game is bent -this was it....and this is the main reason i HAVE championed the cause of the ellie-the best value-best picture product on the market today...because i want to blow wide open all this esoteric claptrap that spouts that you cannot get great performance from a cost effective product-and thats why i also loved the pioneer a400-it blew away-for a while-all those silly snobs that earnt a living talking about bi-amping/tri-amping...blah...blah...blah...and i heard the pioneer a400-many times-and it was,for a few hundred pounds -a great sound-..these are the products that bring quality sound and picture to the masses....we need many more like them.....then we can save our money and buy more dvd`s...but they sure aint popular amongst the reviewers-my point is prooved by the absence of the ellie in the projector ratings...its bent...
     
  14. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Quality soud for the masses is great. As is quality picture. You are right to be proud of your choice of Ellie just as Tiberious should be proud that his HT200 is the best solution for his situation, and I'm talking picture quality here...

    Arcam AlphaCD player was a product like the a400. Cheap and still offering a higher performance than most sub-£800 cd players today. Hopefully, there will always be great, cheaper products that give exceptional sound and picture quality for the money. They wont stay on the market long though as they're going to be made to a cost and when parts costs go up they'll be discontinued, then the MK11 with cheaper bits offering less performance with the same price tag will come out....

    As you pointed out earilier we both heard a McIntosh THX system. I thought it quite poor you thought it quite good. We are both right. We had different experiences for different systems. This in itself shows two things. You must audition products for yourself and secondly how the quality of the installation may affect the result!

    Isn't it strange how this thread has developed?

    Well guys I've a visitor coming from France to stay over Christmas so I may not be about much for a couple of days.

    SO MERRY CHRISTMAS AND LETS HAVE A FUN NEW YEAR!!!

    Gordon


     
  15. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Charles,

    After I read your post about the Ellie projector I went back and re-read it and I have to agree that it was amazing that with such a glowing review it did not get Best Buy status. If I did not need a projector that was portable (need it work work as well as home cinema) then Ellie would have been of great interest to me.

    One of the great things about this forum is that it promotes open debate and will always be a platform for personal bias when making comparisons of products. I have no problem with this. I think it's fun and healthy.

    I think the Denon AVC10 is awful. Nearly every reviewer and member in this forum is gonna disagree with me (maybe even violently). I tried it and I didn't buy it. I did not go with the flow of reviews, 5-stars and best-buys but trusted my own ears and my own taste.

    For you, Ellie is hands-down the best projector out there based on performance and value for money. You have to accept that not everyone agrees.

    I don't think there is a conspiracy against this product any more than I think there is a conspiracy FOR the Denon amp.

    BTW, IMveryHO, bi-amping makes a big difference with some amps and some speakers. Does that make me a snob ?

    Merry Christmas, enjoy the movies.

    p.s. anyone see the Corrs thing on Sky One ? what happened to the interactive stuff. Lousy concert compared to the unplugged DVD...
     
  16. charles

    charles
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    Gary,
    I agree that bi-amping etc.makes a difference(albeit miniscule..)but my point was it got silly and became elitist-you need to take my comments as a total-rather than select one sentence..-you do not think there is a conspiracy-me neither-rather favouritism shown to the giants of this industry in preference to the smaller operators-and whatever you think IT IS all about money/favours and dare i say it-backhanders...

    Your own point prooves this,inasmuch as when didnt a denon amp get a great review?(..or at least very good..)

    There are,i believe two main types of buyer;-the discerning,careful one and the @must have the latest in vogue@product(..the bang and oluffson buyers..)-the second type are beloved by the reviewers...

    I know what i say is stirring the pot-but no-one yet has been able to refute my claims regards the ellie-and why it didnt get a best buy-but the sony lcd and the seleco ht200 are being salivated over by the reviewers-and the armies of review driven robots are buying these products in droves-when they all know that the picture aint as good as crt-why?...what is the preference?...in fact what can they say?...the same old trite about portability,and they havnt got the space,and crt`s are difficult to set up ..blah ..blah..BUT NONE OF THEM GOT THE GUTS TO SAY THE PICTURES BETTER THAN THE ELLIE!!!!
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Black5

    I can tell you that we have only 3 Region2 dvd's on dem in the shop. We have a DVD32r as our reference DVDplayer in our main cinema.

    It wold be a pretty crappy dem room if we could only play those 3 discs ;-)

    Gordon

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