Would you rather have a good salary, or a solid gold pension?

Platelet

Well-known Member
Or if one used the £250 CTF voucher and even stepped late into Bitcoin in 2010, your child would now have a nice and comfortable £240M…Sure it’s not tax free but ah well, it is what it is. 😇

#nerdsrule
Long time since I worked with CTFs but pretty sure you'd not have been able to do that. Stakeholder* funds, S&S funds or cash funds were the only options as far as I recall

*stock & share funds but will more restrictions diversity etc
 

Platelet

Well-known Member
I think this is the first step, am I right in thinking I read about a gov.uk site that will soon be able track all an individual’s pensions etc

There's a couple of things that sometimes get confused here. There will (in theory) eventually be a pension dashboard site that allows you to see all your different pots in one place. That's an IT nightmare to implement and I could wax lyrical about why it's taking so long to get there. Currently predicted for full roll out in 2024 but I wouldn't hold your breath

There's an existing pension tracing system that will allow you to track down old pensions you used to contribute to. That was introduced in 2016 I think.

From personal experience it's quite useful. I used it in 2016 to track down two pensions I'd stopped paying into in 1987 & 1991. Somewhat embarrassingly one of them was being administered by a company I'd worked for for four years without even realising they had one of mine.

That won't tell you what they are worth, but what it will do is tell you who to write to to find out what they're worth.

 
Last edited:

MarkyPancake

Distinguished Member
Sadly, I somehow missed information about LISA and didn't find out until it was too late, a couple of months after I turned 40. Would have gone for that instead of Help to Buy ISA, and used it for it's retirement option over house buying.

Forgot to say, after paying in the relevant amount into my Help to Buy ISA that the government will add their max bonus to, I'm now buying my first property and it doesn't meet the requirements to claim the bonus (buying with my partner who's not a first time buyer and the property costs more than the scheme's limit). So, really wish I had been aware of the LISA now. D'oh!
 
D

Deleted member 498601

Guest
Forgot to say, after paying in the relevant amount into my Help to Buy ISA that the government will add their max bonus to, I'm now buying my first property and it doesn't meet the requirements to claim the bonus (buying with my partner who's not a first time buyer and the property costs more than the scheme's limit). So, really wish I had been aware of the LISA now. D'oh!

Pretty crap, but congratulations nevertheless on your house purchase :)
 

rousetafarian

Moderator
Thanks so much, to you and everyone who replied.
So, after an initial rummage both on and offline I’ve tracked down 6 pensions, 4 being smaller contribution workplace pensions (forgive my poor terminology) which includes my current one.

I also discovered that I did pay into a DB scheme for a period of 18 months between 2001 & 2002, however that stopped as I read many others did at the time. I was auto-enrolled into the DC scheme paid into this until 2014 (not made any further contributions),

I’m guessing this is where the majority of my retirement funding will as I saw a CETV figure from July 2017 which in my world is a lot of money.

So I am happy that I’ve got a grip on the number of pension out there, I supposed I could always approach L&G and ask them for an up to date CETV, is there any harm in that to give me an idea?

As I understand it, this is the amount they would pay in the form of a transferable pension to rid them of the liability? I think they are/were struggling funding wise If that makes a discernible difference?.

Just wanted to get this down in writing for my own reference more than anything else…
 

Platelet

Well-known Member
So, after an initial rummage both on and offline I’ve tracked down 6 pensions, 4 being smaller contribution workplace pensions (forgive my poor terminology) which includes my current one.

I also discovered that I did pay into a DB scheme for a period of 18 months between 2001 & 2002, however that stopped as I read many others did at the time. I was auto-enrolled into the DC scheme paid into this until 2014 (not made any further contributions),

Of the two pensions I traced I'd paid into a DB one for about nine months and a DC one for a couple of years. The DB is worth around £500 a year when I retire. The charges on the DC one exhausted it long before I tracked it down.

Your DC scheme starting post 2001 means it's very likely stakeholder compliant meaning it wouldn't have the rip-off charges I faced, but it's worth keeping an eye on it, checking the annual statements are showing it going up rather than down

I could always approach L&G and ask them for an up to date CETV, is there any harm in that to give me an idea?
There should be no issue with that at all. They should also be sending you annual statements, but if you'd lost contact with them through moving home or whatever they may have that suspended as you'd be marked as gone away. When you contact them they'll switch that back on

As I understand it, this is the amount they would pay in the form of a transferable pension to rid them of the liability? I think they are/were struggling funding wise If that makes a discernible difference?.
Okay so this is where the difference between DB & DC kicks in.

If it's a defined contribution pension then you and your employer (and HMRC) have paid into an individual pot for you and L&G will be managing that for you. If the employer goes tits up they'd stop contributing (but as you're not anyway I assume you left the job anyway). What they can't do is take your pot.

If L&G themselves were heading into financial difficulty then they'd sell their pension (and life) books on - to someone like Aviva say, or be bought out entirely. The pension books are a huge asset as basically they're investing your money but taking a skim of any profit.

Pension books change hands all the time. It's why it's often tricky to trace an old pension, because the administration may have changed hands several times

So TL;DR version if it's a DC pension then no it won't make a difference to the value. It's the stock market that causes big fluctuations in DC values
 

rousetafarian

Moderator
Of the two pensions I traced I'd paid into a DB one for about nine months and a DC one for a couple of years. The DB is worth around £500 a year when I retire. The charges on the DC one exhausted it long before I tracked it down.

Your DC scheme starting post 2001 means it's very likely stakeholder compliant meaning it wouldn't have the rip-off charges I faced, but it's worth keeping an eye on it, checking the annual statements are showing it going up rather than down


There should be no issue with that at all. They should also be sending you annual statements, but if you'd lost contact with them through moving home or whatever they may have that suspended as you'd be marked as gone away. When you contact them they'll switch that back on


Okay so this is where the difference between DB & DC kicks in.

If it's a defined contribution pension then you and your employer (and HMRC) have paid into an individual pot for you and L&G will be managing that for you. If the employer goes tits up they'd stop contributing (but as you're not anyway I assume you left the job anyway). What they can't do is take your pot.

If L&G themselves were heading into financial difficulty then they'd sell their pension (and life) books on - to someone like Aviva say, or be bought out entirely. The pension books are a huge asset as basically they're investing your money but taking a skim of any profit.

Pension books change hands all the time. It's why it's often tricky to trace an old pension, because the administration may have changed hands several times

So TL;DR version if it's a DC pension then no it won't make a difference to the value. It's the stock market that causes big fluctuations in DC values
I’ve just received a CETV letter through which is around 25x my annual g’teed pension. I expect to be working for another 18/19 years and living for a further 15 years post retirement so I’m guessing I will leave it where it is. It’s a large chunk to invest elsewhere but not a high enough multiplier to interest me. May try again in another 10 years :)
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
I’ve just received a CETV letter through which is around 25x my annual g’teed pension. I expect to be working for another 18/19 years and living for a further 15 years post retirement so I’m guessing I will leave it where it is. It’s a large chunk to invest elsewhere but not a high enough multiplier to interest me. May try again in another 10 years :)
The sweet spot in our company seemed to be around age 52/53 to generate the largest multipliers. Mine, aged 55 1/2-ish was just under 35x - the max I’ve heard of in our scheme was around 40x!!! That was quite recently, with bond yields being so low, and inflation predictions being high, being contributing factors.
 

rousetafarian

Moderator
The sweet spot in our company seemed to be around age 52/53 to generate the largest multipliers. Mine, aged 55 1/2-ish was just under 35x - the max I’ve heard of in our scheme was around 40x!!! That was quite recently, with bond yields being so low, and inflation predictions being high, being contributing factors.
Remember I only paid into this for around a year so it’s a brilliant return now
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
D

Deleted member 27989

Guest
Seems you only need £11k / year to retire on……


Seems much too low to me.
It’s low, but a minimum excluding housing costs and running a car. Council tax would be the biggest expense unfortunately, about 1/4 of that would go straight there 😬

But as a minimum it seems to be ok. Naturally anyone who want more could/should make additional provisions.
 

Xenomorph

Member
Seems you only need £11k / year to retire on……


Seems much too low to me.

I've read that figure of £17k for a married couple before. I think it would be for an extremely frugal lifestyle though.
My calculations have put the figure at £25k for a comfortable standard of living in our circumstances.
 

Platelet

Well-known Member
Seems you only need £11k / year to retire on……


Seems much too low to me.

They calculate three different levels - minimum, moderate and comfortable. That's the minimum which covers "a typical retiree's basic needs plus enough for some social activities, such as a week of holiday in the UK, eating out once a month, but not including running a car."

"comfortable" is £33,600

Single:
2021%20RLS%20Table%20Single[1].png


Couple:
2021%20RLS%20Table%20Couple[1].png
 

Xenomorph

Member
They calculate three different levels - minimum, moderate and comfortable. That's the minimum which covers "a typical retiree's basic needs plus enough for some social activities, such as a week of holiday in the UK, eating out once a month, but not including running a car."

"comfortable" is £33,600

For one person, and they reckon £49,700 for a couple!
I don't know what kind of lifestyle they're basing that on.
 

Xenomorph

Member
They calculate three different levels - minimum, moderate and comfortable. That's the minimum which covers "a typical retiree's basic needs plus enough for some social activities, such as a week of holiday in the UK, eating out once a month, but not including running a car."

"comfortable" is £33,600

Single:
View attachment 1585153

Couple:
View attachment 1585155

Ah thanks. I was mixing up my categories. When I said £25k, I was referring to a 'moderate' style. So we're not that far off their figure. Plus I can immediately discount £1500 as we spend £0 on clothes :)
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
So according to the table @Platelet posted - a comfortable existence can be had for a single person spending just £59 a week on food.

Now I know you can survive on less than that - but I'd hardly call £59pw comfortable. If I were to spend on food without giving it a thought (my definition of comfortable), I'd soon blow past £59pw! And we don't eat out!

I give my lad £350pm to survive on while he's at college - I'd like to think he'd be pretty comfortable on that - and he hasn't complained yet. But if I dropped that to £250pm (roughly £60pw), I'm not sure how he'd fare - I mean, I think he'd survive, but he'd be eating beans on toast more often than he is at the moment.
 

MSW

Distinguished Member
They calculate three different levels - minimum, moderate and comfortable. That's the minimum which covers "a typical retiree's basic needs plus enough for some social activities, such as a week of holiday in the UK, eating out once a month, but not including running a car."

"comfortable" is £33,600

Single:
View attachment 1585153

Couple:
View attachment 1585155

The figure don’t feel write to me unless in this country the average WORKING person is living close to a minimum existence.

I base this on;

1) Average wage being 28K
2) They are paying rent / mortgage (Not included in the pension calls)
3) Lots workers will have the massive cost of children (4.2k a year in the case of the dreamer)
4) Wokers also pay NI & Social Care Tax (I think pensioners don’t)
 

Xenomorph

Member
The figure don’t feel write to me unless in this country the average WORKING person is living close to a minimum existence.

I base this on;

1) Average wage being 28K
2) They are paying rent / mortgage (Not included in the pension calls)
3) Lots workers will have the massive cost of children (4.2k a year in the case of the dreamer)
4) Wokers also pay NI & Social Care Tax (I think pensioners don’t)

These figures must assume no mortgage is being paid, and no dependents.
 

MSW

Distinguished Member
These figures must assume no mortgage is being paid, and no dependents.

Exactly, which just shows that avge wage (which has to fund mortgage/ rent / kids etc) must be a bread line figure (based on what those tables say you need in retirement)
 

Platelet

Well-known Member
These figures must assume no mortgage is being paid, and no dependents.

They do (for now) exclude rent & dependants other than spouse

Housing – the standards assume people are mortgage and rent free, because this is still what most of the population close to retirement will achieve in the next few years. We will review this over time as increasing numbers of people are paying a mortgage into their retirement or may be renting rather than owning a home.

Dependents - the financial support of (a) dependent(s) other than a partner aren’t included in the standards – for example, living with relatives could change your expenditure.

It's also worth noting these are "not London" figures. For London it rises to

Single:
Min: £13,200
Mod: £24,500
Com: £36,700

Couple:
Min: £21,100
Mod: £36,200
Com: £51,500


Further reading:
 

Platelet

Well-known Member
The figure don’t feel write to me unless in this country the average WORKING person is living close to a minimum existence.

I base this on;

1) Average wage being 28K
2) They are paying rent / mortgage (Not included in the pension calls)
3) Lots workers will have the massive cost of children (4.2k a year in the case of the dreamer)
4) Wokers also pay NI & Social Care Tax (I think pensioners don’t)

There are similar studies from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation that look at working households and factor in rent & kids


For context the single person minimum goes from the £11k "pensioner" mark to £19k
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
Exactly, which just shows that avge wage (which has to fund mortgage/ rent / kids etc) must be a bread line figure (based on what those tables say you need in retirement)
Though very often you'd have two people earning national average (£31.5K - source ONS), which would put the household income at a decent £63Kpa - giving a net income of £50.2K after tax (excluding any pension).

A single person would have to earn £71.5K to take home the same amount.

So two people, both on national average salaries should be doing 'OK'.

Of course, the fact that that's an 'average' means many will be on less than £31.5K - so that's not so great!
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Panasonic JZ2000 Final Thoughts - TV Calibration: Should you? And More...
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

What's new on UK streaming services for December 2021
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Best Projectors of 2021 - Editor's Choice Awards
  • By Steve Withers
  • Published
Black Friday 2021: What you need to know
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
What's new on Blu-ray Special - The Cinema of Zhang Yimou & Gong Li
  • By Mark Costello
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 24th November 2021
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom