Would you buy an EV for the long term?

Discussion in 'Hybrid, PHEV & EV Electric Cars Forum' started by ajdj1, Jul 20, 2017.


    1. Phill104

      Phill104
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      I never said they will have a CVT gearbox, at least pure EVs will not. It is my understanding that at least one brand use CVT fluid in the final drive, and it should get changed every other service.
       
    2. Bl4ckGryph0n

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      I guess you have heard of modern steering like the electric steering rack ;) and ahem doesn't an EV have brakes as well? I thought we were talking about the differences above and beyond what an ICE has.
       
    3. Phill104

      Phill104
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      EVs, just like my Prius+, use standard brakes assisted by the electric motor. This places less wear on the brakes.

      The steering rack is still the same we have used for many years, just the power assistance is an electric motor rather than a hydraulic pump in many cases, but not all. I am betting, some manufacturers will still use a hydraulic pas as a lot of drivers seem to prefer it at the moment especially in performance cars.
       
    4. Bl4ckGryph0n

      Bl4ckGryph0n
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      Sure. The point being, EVs still have these elements as well. It's universal. A car still has suspension, steering, brakes, air conditioning etc.
       
    5. Delvey

      Delvey
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      Well you did post that you think the only thing needed changing in 5 years is the oil and filter and maybe the spark plugs. So you've had the brake fluid, steering fluid and engine coolant changed.
      Make your bloody mind up
       
    6. Delvey

      Delvey
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      [emoji2]
       
    7. Delvey

      Delvey
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      Anyway as I we were discussing. Electric cars should be cheaper to service. Which doesn't seem the case
       
    8. outoftheknow

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      No worries - the final drive from the electric motor to the differential is gears and the gears and diff need lubrication :)

      In reality I can't see service costs being much lower. They will inspect brakes whether an EV wears them less or not. There are still oils and fluids (even if it is only windscreen washer) and bearings and suspension bits and bobs to inspect and wobble. Computers are plugged in and batteries will be checked.

      Sure some engine fluids and filters aren't required at all and it should be a touch cheaper - but it is hard for dealers to let go :)

      Just to cover Tesla - they don't need a service for the four year 'drive train' and General bits falling off warranty to be valid as far as I can see. The battery has a seperate longer warranty. The motor and I think inverter have another seperate warranty?

      All the bits they warranty above are Tesla's and other manufacturers for now are using third party bits. They wouldn't be keen to back up a third party warranty where they don't have total control over the manufacture of the parts - just a specification in the order.

      You don't need to service them for 4 years but as above plenty of other bits to inspect and check and jiggle thoughtfully at an hourly rate if you do - as most spending that much on a car probably would. :)
       
    9. LV426

      LV426
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      Based solely on one manufacturer, and solely on their prices for service plans (as opposed to individual visit costs), electric is cheaper, with the differential increasing over time up to ~50% vs petrol and more vs diesel:
      Hyundai Car Servicing & Maintenance | Hyundai UK
       
    10. Bl4ckGryph0n

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      In addition to what an EV requires. In addition to what an EV requires. That was the whole point and context wasn't it?
       
    11. lovegroova

      lovegroova
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      I do tend to keep my cars for a long while - I've only owned 4 in the last 24 years so my servicing tended to be more comprehensive.

      For what it's worth, I'just looked up the GLC servicing schedule. In addition to oil and filter changes
      Brake fluid should be changed every 2 years
      50k miles/ 5 years is air filter and plugs
      60k miles / 6 years is Auto transmission oil/filter and transfer case oil change
      120k miles / 12 years is fuel filter and coolant

      Most not a problem for those fortunate enough to buy new cars often :)
       
      Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
    12. DELUCAS

      DELUCAS
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      IMG_7678.JPG IMG_7679.JPG IMG_7680.JPG IMG_7681.JPG IMG_7682.JPG IMG_7683.JPG

      My visit the other day .

      Tesla come with 4 year warranty
      8 year warranty on Batteries .

      Has an obd port so taking to local garages can keep costs down as such providing there Diagnostic machine lists the car which id imagine most decent ones will with the updates they get .

      The underflooring batteries you can diagnose and change individual ones that are failing or have an issues .
      So will work out cheaper .

      Servicing brakes / suspension is basically the same as standard cars
      Struts are Hydraulic like some Mercedes models .
      Same steering rack as other models out there .
      Indicators etc and window swiches are sourced from another car manufacture .

      Main screen is id imagine an LG pad screen easily replaced
      No other major dash buttons on car .

      In colder climate they loose approx 30 mile etc

      So servicing cost would be a whole lot less than say a merc
      And taking to an Indy will work out even cheaper .
       
      Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
    13. Bl4ckGryph0n

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      Why would it be materially cheaper than if you'd take the equivalent alternative car makers to an indy as well? All the standard wear and tear items are no different? Other than perhaps the cheapest to service elements like engine oil, and filter.
       
    14. DELUCAS

      DELUCAS
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      As an Example like merc dealers
      You have experienced mercedes mechanics that leave the dealership and set up on there own with experience with merc .
      The same would happen with Tesla in the future

      And a lot cheaper than paying Tesla prices if one is concerned abot dealership prices on say replacing the car batteries if out of warranty as an examplein the future .
       
    15. Bl4ckGryph0n

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      Oh absolutely, I get that. I've done that with older cars I used to have in the past that aren't on a service plan. I just don't get the argument why a Tesla or any other EV would be materially cheaper for routine servicing than ICE vehicles...
       
    16. DELUCAS

      DELUCAS
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      Servicing a typical car say a mercedes benz just just the oil change cost can be as much as £120.00
      Thats just an oil change :
      Mobil1 5w- 30 6-8 lt
      Oil filter £10.00 - £15.00
      Sump washer £1.12

      Labour £40- £60.00 depending on where you take it .

      And add spark plugs
      Air filter
      And poss a fault code on an engine

      With a battery

      You will just remove the whole cost / repair on sevicing the engine every year ......
      As in no bills for under bonnet duties .
       
    17. lovegroova

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      I think the point is that certain Tesla fanboys have been banging on about how much simpler a Tesla/EV is than other cars and there is nothing to worry about regarding engine wear and tear etc.
      If that were true, then it should be reflected in reduced servicing costs. However, it is not reflected so the servicing costs are, therefore, a bit of a rip-off.

      Longer term, the "replace the batteries" cost does have to be factored in. The only question being how long that long term actually is. (Hope that makes sense?) :)
       
    18. lovegroova

      lovegroova
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      Not sure many Mercedes dealers are as cheap as that, or any main dealers for that matter!
       
    19. DELUCAS

      DELUCAS
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      Indy's can be
       
    20. DELUCAS

      DELUCAS
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      Well you have 8 years of trouble free batteries
      Engine wise in 8 year ownership you could get engine seizure as most modern cars burn oil .
      Head gasket issues
      Timing belt failure
      I could list more .
       
    21. Phill104

      Phill104
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      There are still bills, you really do not seem to get it. While fewer parts may be required, there are other duties to perform, which take time. Ultimately, time is the biggest cost element and the higher the tech the more skilled the technicians will need to be. So inevitably, costs will be similar or higher. Things will just be different, not less.

      There will also need to be some laws introduced on what parts can be used by garages. We already see laws on patent parts, but currently these do not include batteries. As cars get older, and in some cases the warranty is only with the original owner, batteries will fail. So will we end up with dangerous third party batteries installed? That is where we need to be really careful. Even in the domestic battery market we have seen some downright dodgy cells, think of cells at 170v that are actually re-purposed in an iffy back street in the third world (it happens now so please do not call me out for the comment) slapped together by people with little education desperate for any money they can make. We will need legislation, and policing of that. As a result, the price of some parts such as batteries will be more.
       
    22. Bl4ckGryph0n

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      Either a rip-off, or a lack of understanding what is actually being performed at a routine service. I'm with the later....myself....Other than changing engine oil and associated filter and every now and then some spark plugs an ICE doesn't require anything additional unless we start to talk about fairly old cars...But as you say, a replacement battery might come in one day, just like a replacement engine might be necessary one day...I wouldn't class either as routine servicing.

      All the wear and tear stuff is exactly the same anyway like any other modern car, so naturally that will still need doing....You know like squirting a bit of white grease in the door hinges, checking brakes, steering, tyres, suspension etc Running a software update with the computer, it is all the same...

      Blimey so now you start introducing catastrophic failure and mix it with routine servicing costs? What is there to say there isn't warranty on an engine either?

      Heck when BMW had a problem with the 4L v8's where the bore lining would wear out my third hand out of warranty car was repaired free of charge...Porsche had a similar issue...And the list goes on...Let's compare like for like....
       
    23. lovegroova

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      You need to buy better built/engineered cars.
       
    24. DELUCAS

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      Im listing typical engine failure over a period of years
      Which can happen on any day modern or older cars
       
    25. Bl4ckGryph0n

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      Or simply compare like for like....When we were burgled I had to get my door locks changed and recoded. I went to the main dealer with my Quattro for that. Whilst it was in they also did a check and noted that my car never had the upgraded distribution spark plug cable thingies...It was 10 years old at that stage....They apologised for the extended wait but as they had them in stock they would do it there and then for all six cylinders.
       
    26. lovegroova

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      I've provided links to what's done at various services for a Mercedes and a Tesla, there is a significant difference in what's done/materials used. Even if we stick to your "oil and filter change being the only difference" scenario, the cost of oil itself (6-7l) at dealer prices will be significant, then add in the time taken to do the oil and filter change, and a Tesla should be significantly cheaper. Make sense now?
       
    27. lovegroova

      lovegroova
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      That comment was addressed to DELUCAS, not dejongj ;)
       
    28. Bl4ckGryph0n

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      And batteries can't fail? Drive units can't fail? Hasn't Tesla already had to replace about 2/3 of all units on the road prior to 60K miles?

      Everything will fail at some point at some moment in time.
       
    29. Bl4ckGryph0n

      Bl4ckGryph0n
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      So was mine :p
       
    30. DELUCAS

      DELUCAS
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      Of course everything fails more so on moving parts
      Battery at least you have 8 year peace of mind .
      An engine over a 8 year period factor in repairs / service cost

      Which one in the 8 year period would cost you more / running in owner ship ?
       

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