Dismiss Notice
Attention AVForums app / Tapatalk users
Sadly GDPR means that, from 25th, we can no longer offer access to AVForums via the branded app or Tapatalk.
Click here for more information.

Would you buy an EV for the long term?

Discussion in 'Hybrid, PHEV & EV Electric Cars Forum' started by ajdj1, Jul 20, 2017.


    1. Phill104

      Phill104
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Feb 8, 2017
      Messages:
      232
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      66
      Location:
      U.K.
      Ratings:
      +298
      If that was partly aimed at me you could not be further from the truth, I love the idea of EV, I drive a Prius+ 7 seater so I can hardly be called a petrol head. In fact, I am not a car fan at all. They for me are a means to get me to work, the kids out and to get me windsurfing or out with my camera. I passed my test at 17 simply to get a job I was after. I decided to continue study (physics and electronics) instead so from the day I passed my test until I left education in my mid 20s I never drove a car again. In fact, I was downright dangerous as I jumped in with no experience not having driven for at least 8 years other than the 12hrs of lessons I had. Then however, I begun working in the IT industry supporting customers right across the UK, in Ireland, Poland, France and some other parts of Europe. I was knocking up 50K per year for 10 years which only grew my disdain for the ICE, especially seeing the pollution in the tunnels around Paris where they have no fans to help keep then clear like we do here.

      My problem is with batteries, at least in their current form. They really are not the answer, they are a stop gap. Their life in cold climates is considerably less too and a lot of the figures quoted range and life wise are based on warm locations. It is yet another twist of the truth by the motor industry.

      The future I am sure will be very different. Hopefully development will be forced by the market place. However, the current forms are not the gleaming roses of joy that many perceive them to be. Simply looking at purchase cost coupled with depreciation and servicing costs you will soon see if you do the maths they are still more expensive than a similar spec ICE, or even Hybrid. Pollution wise they are better, but not 100% clean until we learn to generate electricity in a clean way. The advantage, other than noise, is we can keep the pollution under control, out of the way and out of sight in the power stations of the world.
       
    2. Bl4ckGryph0n

      Bl4ckGryph0n
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Sep 11, 2003
      Messages:
      36,306
      Products Owned:
      10
      Products Wanted:
      13
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      CyberSpace
      Ratings:
      +10,793
      Oh I like the EQ prototype....Hmm if they can equal the 2.7s Tesla version in that, now that would be nice...
       
    3. Phill104

      Phill104
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Feb 8, 2017
      Messages:
      232
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      66
      Location:
      U.K.
      Ratings:
      +298
      Lithium demand worldwide currently stands a roughly 39000 tonnes per year. This is expected to double every two years if the current rates stay the same. Worldwide, it is currently believed there is 39.5 million tonnes of usable lithium in the ground. Sounds a lot, but like oil, it will soon become increasingly expensive.
       
    4. lovegroova

      lovegroova
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 15, 2002
      Messages:
      2,729
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      103
      Location:
      Herts
      Ratings:
      +387
      Road pricing will be how it's done. Great for me as I don't commute by car :)
       
    5. DELUCAS

      DELUCAS
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Feb 11, 2004
      Messages:
      4,161
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      KENT
      Ratings:
      +652
      If they could we would be taxed on how far we walked .
      And theres an app for that . ;)
       
    6. Delvey

      Delvey
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 20, 2008
      Messages:
      8,814
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Manchester
      Ratings:
      +2,656
      What exactly do they service?
      No oil or oil filter. No air or fuel filter. No radiator coolant. So they are charging twice as much as an ICE to do what?
       
    7. Phill104

      Phill104
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Feb 8, 2017
      Messages:
      232
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      66
      Location:
      U.K.
      Ratings:
      +298
      Brakes, suspension, washers and wipers, door hinges, re-calibration of the battery system, CVT gearbox fluid, pollen filter, ac clean and gas if required, software updates. There is more than you might think.
       
      Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
    8. lovegroova

      lovegroova
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 15, 2002
      Messages:
      2,729
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      103
      Location:
      Herts
      Ratings:
      +387
    9. Delvey

      Delvey
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 20, 2008
      Messages:
      8,814
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Manchester
      Ratings:
      +2,656
      Brakes and suspension rarely come under a service. Brake pads maybe. The rest (apart from the batteries) is the same as any other car. In fact it's less
       
    10. Bl4ckGryph0n

      Bl4ckGryph0n
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Sep 11, 2003
      Messages:
      36,306
      Products Owned:
      10
      Products Wanted:
      13
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      CyberSpace
      Ratings:
      +10,793
      Is it less? Other than the engine oil change and the spark plug change every 5 years or so I'm not seeing what is generally less.
       
    11. Phill104

      Phill104
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Feb 8, 2017
      Messages:
      232
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      66
      Location:
      U.K.
      Ratings:
      +298
      Cars are becoming more complex, we are demanding more gadgets which tend to need updating and servicing. Calibration and temperature tests as well as battery coolant in some cases adds to the cost due to the time it takes more than anything. Add the education level of the technicians and that will also force costs up. Your old Sokol, highly talented Vocational grease monkey is just not going to be needed. Instead they will want people with an electronics and automotive IT degree. Spanners are already being swapped for high tech diagnostic kit.
       
    12. Alan CD

      Alan CD
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 15, 2008
      Messages:
      16,496
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      England
      Ratings:
      +6,498
      EV cars are still mechanical, despite the battery and electric motor.

      Replacing the combustion engine with electrics does indeed greatly reduce the mechanical side, but the rest of the car still has many moving parts requiring professional expertise.
       
    13. Delvey

      Delvey
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 20, 2008
      Messages:
      8,814
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Manchester
      Ratings:
      +2,656
      Completely wrong. Do you think the likes of BMW, Ford, Mercedes are all going to get rid of there current maintenance staff and replace them with graduates? Or send them all to do a degree?
      No
      They'll do what they've done for years, update the skills they have to match what is needed. Hence why nowadays the first thing they will do is plug it into a computer. The same with any electric car now or in the future.
      The grease monkey will still be needed. To replace the suspension, braking, steering, motors, batteries and many other parts. They will just have more skills
       
    14. Delvey

      Delvey
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 20, 2008
      Messages:
      8,814
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Manchester
      Ratings:
      +2,656
      You've been ripped off I'm afraid is that's all you've had serviced over 5 years [emoji12]
       
    15. Phill104

      Phill104
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Feb 8, 2017
      Messages:
      232
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      66
      Location:
      U.K.
      Ratings:
      +298
      Many dealerships are already putting their staff through HND courses and they have government incentives to do so.yes, many will up skill but there will also be plenty who just do not have the kind of mind that can cope with study. Now don't get me wrong, they are still very talented people. However, many will be left behind salary wise. Yes, there is still a lot of mechanics to deal with, but even that is increasingly electronically controlled.

      A friend recently had to take his car in as there was an issue with the electronically controlled suspension, they had to get a specialist in and this was a main dealer. The specialist was degree qualified, paid for by the brand.

      I think it will be a gradual thing, very gradual but there will be a ratio change in favour of acedemically skilled staff over vocationally skilled. Let's hope our educational system improves. In some areas 1 in 6 struggle with literacy.
       
    16. Delvey

      Delvey
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 20, 2008
      Messages:
      8,814
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Manchester
      Ratings:
      +2,656
      Your talking 25 years away before the majority of cars on the road are electric anyway. And that's if another technology doesn't come along.
      So it will be well planned with the training of technicians etc
      And if you have an electrical engineer fixing suspension, they've probably made a wrong career choice
       
    17. Phill104

      Phill104
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Feb 8, 2017
      Messages:
      232
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      66
      Location:
      U.K.
      Ratings:
      +298
      On this particular car the suspension is not just springs and shocks, it has all sorts of feedback for torque, height etc and dynamic adjustment of both height and pressure. His car is an ICE job, but a very expensive one. In the future the torque control in 4wD EVs will in theory be a lot simpler as both feedback and control can be done via the motors.

      And yes, I am thinking long term, we will need to if as a nation we are going to plan our educational structure to cope. Today's 10yr old will be our master technician by then.
       
    18. outoftheknow

      outoftheknow
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 1, 2012
      Messages:
      3,439
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      Canberra, Australia
      Ratings:
      +1,140
      Battery EVs shouldn't have a CVT gearbox. A fixed final drive ratio gear and a differential could be called a gearbox and that will have lubrication and a service routine of course.
       
    19. Spyro

      Spyro
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Oct 7, 2004
      Messages:
      195
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Chelmsford
      Ratings:
      +29
    20. Bl4ckGryph0n

      Bl4ckGryph0n
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Sep 11, 2003
      Messages:
      36,306
      Products Owned:
      10
      Products Wanted:
      13
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      CyberSpace
      Ratings:
      +10,793
      Seriously what else do they routinely change on a combustion engine? Ok perhaps I left out a £12 air filter...But please do tell me what else besides oil and spark plugs?
       
    21. lovegroova

      lovegroova
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 15, 2002
      Messages:
      2,729
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      103
      Location:
      Herts
      Ratings:
      +387
      I'm not arguing that point at all.

      Given that we hear (repeatedly, thanks got gangzoom;)) how simple EVs are, the servicing costs should be much, much lower, especially when you see how little they actually do at each service (click the links in my post above).
       
    22. lovegroova

      lovegroova
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 15, 2002
      Messages:
      2,729
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      103
      Location:
      Herts
      Ratings:
      +387
      These are things that are changed on various Hondas:
      Oil, oil filter, air filter, spark plugs, engine coolant, various drive belts, transmission fluid, differential fluid, brake fluid, pollen filter.
       
    23. Bl4ckGryph0n

      Bl4ckGryph0n
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Sep 11, 2003
      Messages:
      36,306
      Products Owned:
      10
      Products Wanted:
      13
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      CyberSpace
      Ratings:
      +10,793
      So I already mentioned those items. You need to keep the car an awful long time to include drive belts in regular servicing. Never even seen that included in a service. Likewise with transmission fluid, most modern vehicles are sealed for life. Doesn't an EV have brakes or a cabin filter ;)

      As I said on a standard service over that period of time you do your oil filter, air filter and likely perhaps once some spark plugs. Hardly this use overhead for routine maintenance.
       
    24. DELUCAS

      DELUCAS
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Feb 11, 2004
      Messages:
      4,161
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      KENT
      Ratings:
      +652

      On mercedes benz 2004 - 2011 as an example
      The Auto gearbox oil has to be changed at 40.000 miles .

      Serpentine belts or drive belts are often changed on engines very frequently .
      They are of course made of rubber and crack over a period of time .

      There are many components that are changed on a petrol or diesel engines on a service .

      Going Battery less or actually nothing as the Battery is the so called engine .

      So over a long period you will be saving hugely on no more engine service costs or buying fuel .

      The only cost would be the rest of car tyres , brakes , wipers etc
      Software updates
      And of course electricity .
       
    25. Bl4ckGryph0n

      Bl4ckGryph0n
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Sep 11, 2003
      Messages:
      36,306
      Products Owned:
      10
      Products Wanted:
      13
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      CyberSpace
      Ratings:
      +10,793
      So I thought we were talking about the routine servicing costs and the work they do there.

      I'm sorry but in my experience I've never had to change any of the drive belts in my new car ownership as part of routine servicing. My Audi I kept beyond 80k miles and that was the first it required one. But again that is not included in the cost of routine servicing when you compare the lists as attached above.

      Nor with gearbox oil and the likes; have had three Mercedes now.

      I honestly see no mayor difference during the first five years of ownership as has been part of the discussion.

      But likewise when you go beyond that you can introduce also different costs for an EV. That an ICE doesn't have.

      In the main there isn't a real difference I'd say.
       
    26. DELUCAS

      DELUCAS
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Feb 11, 2004
      Messages:
      4,161
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      KENT
      Ratings:
      +652
      Every car make models have diff specs on what needs changing etc on servicing .
      Like every 2 years brake fluid req changing .
      On most Mercedes Auto gearbox the oil has to be changed along with internal filter every 40.000 miles .

      If you never had your oil changed on your mercs
      Then you either have a manual gearbox ( highly unlikely ) or your mercs are brand new and the auto gearbox has an extended oil change replacement ie 100,000 miles change .

      Most older Auto mercs have to at 40,000 miles
       
    27. Delvey

      Delvey
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 20, 2008
      Messages:
      8,814
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Manchester
      Ratings:
      +2,656
      Again you've been ripped off. At 80,000 miles you should of had a brake fluid change, power steering fluid change, engine coolant change and probably a lot more. All the above should of been done in the first five years I imagine.
      Yes with electric cars some of these will not be required (for example I'm not sure how the power steering works. If it still hydraulic, then that will need a fluid change every few years).
       
    28. Delvey

      Delvey
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 20, 2008
      Messages:
      8,814
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Manchester
      Ratings:
      +2,656
      Well maybe not ripped off. But certainly you've not maintained the car properly
       
    29. Spyro

      Spyro
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Oct 7, 2004
      Messages:
      195
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Chelmsford
      Ratings:
      +29
      Just considering the original question from ajdj1 - an EV as an option for living in Fuertaventura? A key consideration must be local support. If Hyundai have a strong presence then it would make sense to go with them. Looking at the Ioniq it states a range of 178 miles? But just like ICE vehicles and mpg figures I assume that is test track conditions? What are the real world figures? With an EV obviously everything is powered by the battery, so the a/c compressor, heated seats, rear window, stereo, lights etc. So obviously the more the ancillaries are used the less battery life available for the drive motors. Also looked at the Tesla owners manual and again so much depends on what you have switched on and how you drive. Couldn't find anything that shows how much say having the a/c on uses in kWh for example. Having spent the best part of £130k on a model S though, I wouldn't want to be worried about having to use the a/c and sound system sparingly to maximise my range. (What I thought was good is that it monitors battery charge and almost won't let you run out though).
      If I was in the enviable position to move to the Canaries I would probably, at this stage, go for something like a diesel Tucson , (£6k less), not worry about carrying passengers, having the a/c on and how well equipped the local dealer is to support the new technology, and see how things develop over the next 5 years. But that's me, only you know what you would feel more comfortable with?
      And if I had £130k to spend on a model S, I'd get a Dodge Challenger Hellcat and use the money I saved on the Tesla to pay for the fuel.:D
       
    30. Bl4ckGryph0n

      Bl4ckGryph0n
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Sep 11, 2003
      Messages:
      36,306
      Products Owned:
      10
      Products Wanted:
      13
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      CyberSpace
      Ratings:
      +10,793
      Absolute nonsense. I think you make way too many assumptions. I've owned and own my cars, current modern cars none of these old models you keep referring to. Fully main dealer maintained.
       

    Share This Page

    Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice