Would I be mad....

mpaul0055

Active Member
.. If I sold my 5090 Kuro Pioneer to jump on the 3D Band Wagon.

It means:

A: I get an LCD with better power consumption.
B: I can squeeze a 55" LCD into the space the Kuro is in.
C: New Toys and New Tech is always good.

The question is if I should jump on the really cheap Samsung deal and discount the LCD, or buy something more expensive..

Ive been thinking for a while that its not the right time for 3DTV and the next couple of years will be interesting. But for on £900 its a very tempting proposition for the coming cold winter months...

Has anyone made the leap from a "Supposed" world class tv, so a more gimiky samsung?
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
A: I get an LCD with better power consumption.
The power consumption thing is way overhyped , the difference in yearly cost between a Plasma at its highest usage and an LCD at its lowest ( an extreme situation which never ever happens )is a pittance.
The quality of the Kuro more than justifys the small extra outlay on electricity.

B: I can squeeze a 55" LCD into the space the Kuro is in.
Its one thing talking about going from a Kuro to a lesser Plasma , but a Kuro to an LCD is just madness , your used to a Kuro , no LCD will make you happy. Fact.

C: New Toys and New Tech is always good.
Only when your upgrading , not downgrading , it will always be a case of , " Ah I remember when I had a better set "

3D in my opinion is a passing fad , but even if I'm wrong on that and it turns out to be commonplace , now is still not the time to buy , the sets are nowhere near as good as a Kuro ( and I'm talking about Plasmas here , not LCD's which arnt even in the race ) and there is precious little content , what content there is , is horrifically overpriced.

You have one of the Best TV's anyone can own , keep it.
 

mpaul0055

Active Member
Thanks Andy..

I must admit the pioneer still blows me away.. Although i have noticing its plasma buzz more and more recently.. I can hear it when viewing the tv on low volumes which never used to happen!

Im going to go down the PC 3D route for now..

The main reson i got the pioneer was because it worked.. It seemed almost all the LCD Tvs had problems, faults, ghosting, bleeding etc....

Cheapest post on AVforums to date.. Normal posts normally end up with me stood in an electrical shop handing over all my money :laugh:
 

andrewfee

Novice Member
While it's not the Samsung you're talking about, I prefer my Sony 46HX903 to the KRP-500M I owned a couple of years ago. No flickering (in 2D) no phosphor lag, no image retention/burn-in risk (I game a lot) lower power consumption (puts out almost no heat, the Kuro could have been used as a radiator) no buzzing (well, a very slight noise right up close, but nothing like the Kuro or CCFL LCDs) no dither/posterisation.

It is not necessarily a clear-cut winner in all cases though. The contrast on the HX903 is fantastic, it's generally about as good as I remember my Kuro being, and at times it is actually better. There are times though when the local dimming doesn't quite work and it ends up being lower contrast. (pretty rare though)

Colour reproduction is great, doesn't measure quite as well as the Kuro but I really don't think most people would notice unless you were doing a side-by-side comparison.

Viewing angle is much worse, if that is an issue. In a brighter room it's less of a problem but if you are watching in the dark you want to be sat straight-on. (but you need to do that in 3D regardless) In the dark at an angle the contrast drops off quite considerably, and you can see the local dimming zones quite easily.

Brightness seems good, copes with a brighter room much better than plasma. No ABL like the Kuros had so it stays bright when large parts of the screen are meant to be bright. (the Kuro, like all plasmas, dimmed the screen when large areas of the picture were bright)

Power consumption seems significantly lower. In its calibrated state, which has the power saving functions disabled, and using 400Hz (which I'm pretty sure is its least efficient mode) it ranges from 48W with an all black screen to 102W with all white. With a 50% grey screen, power consumption is around 60W. This is lower power consumption than a 17" CRT monitor it replaces. (because it's an LCD I'm also using it as a monitor)

At maximum brightness (everything turned up, which is blindingly bright in here) power consumption was around 150W with an all white screen. The KRP500M is rated at almost 400W maximum power consumption. (and does not go nearly as bright)

I don't have numbers for the KRP500M, but HDTVtest have just reviewed the Panasonic P42VT20, which is a 2010 model and much more efficient than the Pioneers were. When calibrated and showing a 50% grey image, power consumption is almost 180W, about 3x what this screen consumes, and that's only a 42" set. A 46/50" will be even higher.


Motion handling is very good with 400Hz. There's very little of the 'soap opera' effect that used to be there with interpolation, though it does seem source dependent. It does a very good job of reducing judder (personally I find untouched 24p to judder too much) and motion sharpness is generally very good. There can sometimes be slight blue trails behind bright moving objects, but it is much less of an issue than the bright green/blue trails that I saw on the KRP-500M. (phosphor lag)


3D is good, but not great in my opinion. I bought this set for its local dimming capabilities rather than 3D, it just happened to also be 3D capable. (and the 3D kit was a relatively cheap addition) I haven't watched much in the way of film/tv content, but what I have seen, I haven't really liked. It's not that the TV does a bad job of it, it's just that watching people in 3D looks weird. (it's something about the size/perspective) Gaming in 3D is great though, it works really well and definitely adds to the experience. The downside is crosstalk though. After a while you tend not to notice it as much, but it really does detract from the experience at times. Personally, I would say that if you have a 3D capable set (or intend to buy one) it's definitely worth paying the extra for glasses, but I'm not sure that I would necessarily sell a TV I was happy with if the only upgrade would be 3D, and I certainly wouldn't sell a 5090 for a £900 Samsung.

It's my understanding that Samsung doesn't do 3D nearly as well as the Sonys do, and they don't offer any local dimming models this year. The only set that is a real alternative to the Kuro this year (if you care about black levels) is the Sony 46/52HX903, but that's considerably more expensive. (same price range as a Kuro)

Im going to go down the PC 3D route for now..
I'm pretty sure this still requires 100/120Hz support at the display. (the Kuro is limited to 60Hz)
 

phil5743

Active Member
The power consumption thing is way overhyped , the difference in yearly cost between a Plasma at its highest usage and an LCD at its lowest ( an extreme situation which never ever happens )is a pittance.
The quality of the Kuro more than justifys the small extra outlay on electricity.



Its one thing talking about going from a Kuro to a lesser Plasma , but a Kuro to an LCD is just madness , your used to a Kuro , no LCD will make you happy. Fact.



Only when your upgrading , not downgrading , it will always be a case of , " Ah I remember when I had a better set "

3D in my opinion is a passing fad , but even if I'm wrong on that and it turns out to be commonplace , now is still not the time to buy , the sets are nowhere near as good as a Kuro ( and I'm talking about Plasmas here , not LCD's which arnt even in the race ) and there is precious little content , what content there is , is horrifically overpriced.

You have one of the Best TV's anyone can own , keep it.
I detect a bit of Kuro snobbery here - there is no getting away from the Pioneer's abilities, but my friend who has just acquired a Samsung 8000 series LED as a 2nd TV to his Kuro is blown away by the quality (ignoring any eco or thinness benefits) - he said that he doesn't feel in any way that he is missing out on anything compared to the Kuro and enjoys watching it just as much. I'm not saying that the Kuro isn't the better TV for 2D - just that it is not as clear cut as the impression given.
 
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glen8

Member
I heard that the Sonys were terrible at 3D? Samsungs are supposed to be excellent with the latest firmware?

It really pains me to say this, but I saw my friends old CCFL samsung 8000 series 2D model a few days back. The blacks were MUCH blacker than any Panasonic Plasma I've owned (PD4/PZ70/PZ80/X10/S10/V10) I was really shocked as Plasmas are 'supposed' to have better blacks

Motion again is supposed to be superior on the Plasma (600hz on my model) yet I've seen a few blurays with terrible judder? go figure
 
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kingkarl

Distinguished Member
My 55" C8000 is excellent and I have hardly any ghosting in 3D , infact everyone who visits comments on how amazing the picture is :smashin:
 

mpaul0055

Active Member
Wow, Cheers folks, Some intresting posts and lots of conflicting views :)

I think the best thing for me to do is to wonder down to comet and see what I think. For 900 Quid its relativley cheap to jump on the 3D band wagon.

I must admit i was blown away from the 40" Samsung i saw and it completely changed my view on 3d in the home.

As phil has said, i have seen many 8 series and high spec LCD tvs that really have made me think about selling the kuro..

Slightly off topic, but what could i expect to get for a year old Kuro lx 5090?
 

verachion

Active Member
Wow, Cheers folks, Some intresting posts and lots of conflicting views :)

I think the best thing for me to do is to wonder down to comet and see what I think. For 900 Quid its relativley cheap to jump on the 3D band wagon.
If you are looking at the Samsung 3D package from Currys/Comet, I have it on very good authority that the prices will drop by the last week of christmas on the LE40C750.

Also

John Lewis are offering 5 years warranty on all TV's something to think about.
 

glen8

Member
I have just this minute got back from Comet & Currys

Would you believe they had an entire row of Pioneer Kuros. Don't think you could buy them as they seemed to be promoting Bose speakers :confused:

anyway, it did give a good comparison

Panasonic GT20 and VT20 were sat on BluRay3D. They did give good 3D performance but still have a very small amount of crosstalk. BIG problem for me were the blacks or lack of. I've been a Panasonic fan for years and owned PD6/PZ70/X10 and V10 myself while my family have had PZ80/X10 and S10 so I am fully aware of what they are like in the home.

I can assure you the blacks on the Samsung C750, C7000 LED and C8000 LED were SIGNIFICANTLY blacker. I mean JET black.

However, the LEDs were showing TERRIBLE crosstalk.

Winner.....C750 by a HUGE margin. The picture was every bit as good but had less crosstalk. Not quite as good as the Panasonics, but when you consider the Panasonics are not perfect either you may as well go for the Samsung. The 3D was more than watachable and I'm a stickler for anything not quite right.

Currys are doing this package which I think it's fantastic. It's not on the website so maybe only in store. My local only has one left in stock so I may go back and buy it after work.

46" C750
Blu-Ray Player
Shrek 1-4
Extra 3D Glasses

£1,168.00 :D

p.s. The kuros were clearly in another league from anything else in the shop. They did have black blacks :)
 
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Jedit

Novice Member
However, the LEDs were showing TERRIBLE crosstalk.
I'd wager money those displays have never had a firmware update. Watched Monster House 3D on my UE46C7000 with the latest firmware a few weeks ago, and there was absolutely no crosstalk.
 

mpaul0055

Active Member
Cheers Glen..

Off down to comet now, then probably to costco to pick up the Samsung 55c7000.. Ive been told that 5" makes all the difference ;) lol..

Going to keep hold of the kuro incase I have any problems... :) But i must admit, the 50" was starting to look small
 

forestguy

Active Member
Hi I used to be a owner of the Pioneer Kuro 5090 and sold it for £1400 with 2 1/2 years warranty remaining. I had mine for over 2 1/2 years then decided to jump onto the 3D band wagon. I must admit i've never looked back. I bought the Samsung PS50C680. I enjoy the TV so much, all you have to do is make sure you adhere to the 300 hours on low settings rule and you'll have a tv close to the Pioneer with 3D. I paid £910 for the TV with 4 3D glasses,
3D blu-ray player, and monster v aliens 3D film, and thanks with the high Pioneer resale value I had cash to spare!!!

Everyone is impressed with my 3D TV. I use it for films, Sports, and my xbox 360, which i play Enslaved, COD Black Ops, Avatar the game in glorious
3D :smashin:
 

johnny-17

Active Member
I can see where the OP is coming from as I'm starting to feel that my 5 year old Pioneer 436xde is about ready for an upgrade.
It's served my well but I'm starting to think that current black levels, 3D, full HD and built-in iPlayers are maybe better than my current model can do.

So far the Sony NX713/813's are on the top of my list as I can get a larger screen into the same space as my Pioneer. :smashin:

Perhaps I'll have to speak to Santa ;)
 

marky9074

Novice Member
I can see where the OP is coming from as I'm starting to feel that my 5 year old Pioneer 436xde is about ready for an upgrade.
It's served my well but I'm starting to think that current black levels, 3D, full HD and built-in iPlayers are maybe better than my current model can do.

So far the Sony NX713/813's are on the top of my list as I can get a larger screen into the same space as my Pioneer. :smashin:

Perhaps I'll have to speak to Santa ;)
Just ordered the NX813, and offloading the 436XDE too. Should easily get £300 for the Pioneer which is respectable for a 5yr old TV...

I think its a little more clear cut for us with 6th gen 720p panels... pretty much anything is going to be an upgrade, though it's been a great five years.. :thumbsup:
 

dllord

Novice Member
Hi I used to be a owner of the Pioneer Kuro 5090 and sold it for £1400 with 2 1/2 years warranty remaining. I had mine for over 2 1/2 years then decided to jump onto the 3D band wagon. I must admit i've never looked back. I bought the Samsung PS50C680. I enjoy the TV so much, all you have to do is make sure you adhere to the 300 hours on low settings rule and you'll have a tv close to the Pioneer with 3D. I paid £910 for the TV with 4 3D glasses,
3D blu-ray player, and monster v aliens 3D film, and thanks with the high Pioneer resale value I had cash to spare!!!

Everyone is impressed with my 3D TV. I use it for films, Sports, and my xbox 360, which i play Enslaved, COD Black Ops, Avatar the game in glorious
3D :smashin:
Is enslaved in 3d now? Never bothered getting it but if its 3d then bring it on!
 

dllord

Novice Member
Yep, the whole game is 3D after buying DLC on Xbox Live. Zavvi sell the game for around 17.99 :smashin:
Tidy im in town now looking for a cheap copy and some ms points cheers for the info:)
 

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