Worthy AV192R replacement with XLR?

aublumberg

Standard Member
Looking to replace my trusted AV192R with a latest-generation processor that has Balanced XLR outputs (would like to continue using 250MRs and have XLR cables to the rears integrated into the walls of the flat).

Any suggestions?

Many thanks,
Andre.
 

Mr_Orange

Well-known Member
Bryston SP3?? (When it comes out)

What's your budget and what features do you require of the new processor?
 

Miron

Active Member
Looking to replace my trusted AV192R with a latest-generation processor that has Balanced XLR outputs (would like to continue using 250MRs and have XLR cables to the rears integrated into the walls of the flat).

Any suggestions?

Many thanks,
Andre.
I'd say nothimg but Anthem Statement, but Meridian is surely a good choice too
 

GrahamMG

Well-known Member
ADA Cinema Rhaspody Mk4B, a natural sucessor to the AV192R and quite a few have already done this includng me....
 

Miron

Active Member
ADA Cinema Rhaspody Mk4B, a natural sucessor to the AV192R and quite a few have already done this includng me....
You are not a merit Graham :)
No, just kidding, he needs XLR though...
 

GrahamMG

Well-known Member
Exactly why I suggested it, the CR4B is balanced outputs (and RCA's if you want). Very cool stuff.... Hours of fun with the vast array of flexibility, just like the Av192R could have been if they had kept going.
 

Madmartigan

Standard Member
And the Classe SSP-800 is of course also available, though I have always found the Classe-sound slightly boring. There is also the Mark Levinson 502. For a much more civilized price you could look at the Arcam AV888, which I do find quite good value for money. But why on earth would you want to get rid of your AV192? :)
 

aublumberg

Standard Member
Thanks all for your insights, very much appreciated. Just getting tired of intermittent errors and having to reboot the AV192R (replaced the power supplies already, so may be something else), plus would like to have a Blu-Ray / HDMI capable single system (two channel audio plus 5.1 movies). Price range US$7 - 10K, depending on options.

Your suggestions will give me some food for thought and further analysis of options. Loved the TAG kit very much but perhaps time to move on at some stage. Still in very early exploratory stage.
 

GrahamMG

Well-known Member
Yep just like the rest of us, power up issues, PSU, general flakey behaviour now it is so old, no HD audio or HDMI compatibility, bite the bullet time.

The Mark levinson 502 is very good but having tried that one I went for the ADA CR4 balanced as it sounded as good or better and had a huge pile fo setup options that suited and was a thrid the price..... My main reason for having one was that the guys at ADA can react to stuff very quickly as you speak to the guys that build/design and write the firmware/software as they are in house and that is very like the good old TAG days, makes you feel part of the process and that these days is a bit special. So good in fact that I am asking the company that distributes them to go and work for them full time.....

I think basically the brands mentioned above are the complete list of products that may be a good replacement for your AV192R, a surprisingly short list.....
 

Miron

Active Member
Yep just like the rest of us, power up issues, PSU, general flakey behaviour now it is so old, no HD audio or HDMI compatibility, bite the bullet time.

The Mark levinson 502 is very good but having tried that one I went for the ADA CR4 balanced as it sounded as good or better and had a huge pile fo setup options that suited and was a thrid the price..... My main reason for having one was that the guys at ADA can react to stuff very quickly as you speak to the guys that build/design and write the firmware/software as they are in house and that is very like the good old TAG days, makes you feel part of the process and that these days is a bit special. So good in fact that I am asking the company that distributes them to go and work for them full time.....

I think basically the brands mentioned above are the complete list of products that may be a good replacement for your AV192R, a surprisingly short list.....
Ja, thats what makes fun, but somehow these times are long gone :-(
 

aublumberg

Standard Member
Thanks Graham, always appreciated your input and comments in the "good old" TAG days, so will definitely check it out. Customer responsiveness and agility were characteristics that attracted me to TAG in 2002, so it's good to hear ADA's philosophy is similar. Need to find out whether they have any distribution in Hong Kong, website not very useful in this regard.
 

secastor

Active Member
Thanks Graham, always appreciated your input and comments in the "good old" TAG days, so will definitely check it out. Customer responsiveness and agility were characteristics that attracted me to TAG in 2002, so it's good to hear ADA's philosophy is similar. Need to find out whether they have any distribution in Hong Kong, website not very useful in this regard.
Hello Andre,
you have lots of 255W modules. ;) 3 in 250X3R and 5 in the 250MRs. You would not have an excess? :rolleyes:
I own 4, I seek one.:)
for your AV192R, Kevin can refurbish. :)
Best regards
Didier
 

simon40

Active Member
Graham,

Who is the UK distributor for the ADA, and do they undertake the upgrades themselves, or does the unit have to be returned to the US?

Cheers

Simon
 

GrahamMG

Well-known Member
Graham,

Who is the UK distributor for the ADA, and do they undertake the upgrades themselves, or does the unit have to be returned to the US?

Cheers

Simon
Hi Simon.
The UK distributor is Genesis Technologies (www.genesistechnologies.co.uk)
And as I have known the owners since the BBC (and Barco) days, I am going to be heavily involved in the ADA (and other stuff) technical design/support and training :) so in answer to the upgrade question, yes just about everything will be done in the UK as that is going to be one of the many reasons for my future permanent involvement:)
 

PeterG

Standard Member
Hi Andre,
I recently put Primare SP32 on my list of upgrade candidates. I haven't auditioned it yet, but my previous encounters with Primare has been very positive. It's around £5K with HD audio and scaler option.

/Peter
 

aublumberg

Standard Member
Well ... after looking around a bit, the Hong Kong local distributor options for ADA and Anthem are appalling, so whilst they may be great kit, sorry but I'm not going to trust some guy in China with a Gmail account to sell me a 10K piece of ADA equipment. Considered further the Arcam AV888 and Classe SSP-800 but the high price points and the fast changing market and technologies made me think twice.

Now I'm actually thinking to get a Marantz AV7005 which has balanced XLR outputs and is equipped with latest formats (even does Apple Airplay!) at the comparative bargain of only US$1,500. So likely I'll go with that one, at least in the interim, until the high-end options are a bit clearer. Maybe for a preamplifier the approach to buy a lower-cost model and replace it more frequently makes more sense than sticking to a high-end model for 5+ years and suffer from lack of upgrades in the second part of the lifecycle.

The Marantz AV7005 received good reviews, it may likely not be the audiophile's dream but then again having a system that doesn't reboot every so often is kind of nice, too. If anyone has thoughts on the AV7005 - greatly appreciated.
Andre.
 

Ettepet

Active Member
My av32 has been performimg a bit erretic lately (possibly dried out capacitors near the cooling sinks). So I went looking for kind of a replacement.

Prices are sky high in Europe, especially here in my country. Considered both the Marantz AV7005 and the Onkyo SC5508, all XLR, but finally went with an Onkyo TX-NR5008. It was on sale (still 1799 euro) has many strenghts and probably will prove the best value, now and when I sell it within a few years.

Would have liked to have gone with gear that supports Audyssey Pro or Anthem ARC but the money isn't worth it at the moment.
 

rolski

Active Member
Andre,
I've recently gone for a Meridian 861v6 - take a look at the specs - it's also an expensive option but I don't think you'd be disappointed.
 

aublumberg

Standard Member
Meridian 861v6 - it's also an expensive option but I don't think you'd be disappointed.
Thanks for the input but at 26x the AV7005 clearly way out of my league. I am convinced it won't disappoint - enjoy :)
 

edward

Active Member
Hi Graham,
I'm not looking to replace my TAG kit yet – it still thrills me after all these years, but…

I read your comments in the ADA thread and you seemed to be praising the fact that it had no external connect for software updates and the fact that there had only been one software update in the past 3 years. You must remember the thrill of applying the regular updates we got in the good old days, and finding out what goodies Stevesky and co had developed in the preceding months, very often with no great fanfare at all. The AV32R and the AV192R were designed to support innovation: one update in three years and no facility for doing it easily don't sound like hallmarks of the innovation-driving product that will be the AV192R's worthy successor. That said, if this kit impresses you, I'm keen to hear one in a good setup.

Another question you might be able to help with: the only images of the front panel I've seen look like they are for a mounting in an equipment rack, sheet metal facia, complete with handles so it can be pulled out for servicing. Bryston does a “rack-mount” look version and a “domestic/wife-friendly-ish” facia. If ADA do the same, any chance of showing us what the domestic version looks like?

I tried asking about this stuff in the ADA thread, which seemed a more appropriate place to ask than here, but it doesn't seem to have been accepted.
 

Miron

Active Member
Edward, I also tried to find as much as possible about ADA but there is hardly anything on the web which in modern days means "forget it". Graham might be exited about it because of one or another reason but one or two threads on AVF and AVSF are just not enough and can't justify anything.
Sorry Graham, but I'd never go for something like that, not in 2011:hiya:
 

Ettepet

Active Member
What I remember reading about ADA is its limitations to 8 channels, besides the steep price.

I have been using the Onkyo 5008 over the past two weeks, and have been positively surprised by both its 'Pure Audio' mode and Audyssey XT32. I'm returning my unit tomorrow because of some defect while streaming, and have to decide what to exchange it for. It could very well be another 5008, as they are competitively priced and will hold good resale value.
 

edward

Active Member
Yes, but if AV192R veterans like Graham and Joel have gone for this kit, its definitely gotta be worth seeking out for a listen.

The points of concern are that software/firmware upgrades are not just for bug-fixes. I mean, if TMA hadn't bothered with an easy upgrade port, the industry probably wouldn't have stuff like equalisation capabilities in the AV processor as standard. Why? Because only the later models would have been able to take advantage of it, and those users with specialised tooling and an appetite for top-off upgrades, or those ready to be bled by after-sales services because the design didn't make it DIY, none of which is me.

The other is the facias in the artwork I've seen so far. Its fine in professional kit that lives in a rack but if this stuff is being sold as high-end domestic (and I'm picking that'll be the bulk of their market), it has to look the part for those who want it to look domesticated, especially if it costs more than a couple of grand. Why? Because even the manufacturers of Av processors that cost just a couple of hundred quid, like Onkyo, have sorted out the styling thing. Besides, I'd just prefer not to have another war with my wife about the kit in our lounge if I was to go this route - and from a sound perspective ADA sounds like the the best route to take.

Actually... I've just seen that there is some detail on the Genesis web site for the Suite 7.1 HD that refers to "Full PC Setup system" and an ethernet port. Maybe I'm going off half-cocked here. Hopefully Graham will provide the sought reassurance on that point.
 
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Ettepet

Active Member
Having bought a couple of high-end non-active speakers (Danley SM60F's) I discovered the power amp inside the Onkyo 5008 is a bit limited (harsh etc.) which fortunately was easily remedied by adding the Emotiva MPS-1 power amp. I did a superficial comparison with the TAG av32dp + MPS-1 combo I used previously and was surprised how similar they sounded. Before plunging into £££ pre-amps I would recommend looking into these kind of (much cheaper, powerful) options as well.
 

fernar

Standard Member
aublumberg - did you finally get the Marantz AV7005? I would very much like to hear your views on the sound quality of the Marantz, specifically for 2 channel music - how did it stack up vs the Tag equipment?

I am also considering the Marantz... I am holding fire until the Audiolab 8200AP is announced - my dealer tells me he has been informed that the products will be released sometime next month...!

I am waiting to see what features the Audiolab will have and also what the sound quality will be...
 

GrahamMG

Well-known Member
Yes, but if AV192R veterans like Graham and Joel have gone for this kit, its definitely gotta be worth seeking out for a listen.

The points of concern are that software/firmware upgrades are not just for bug-fixes. I mean, if TMA hadn't bothered with an easy upgrade port, the industry probably wouldn't have stuff like equalisation capabilities in the AV processor as standard. Why? Because only the later models would have been able to take advantage of it, and those users with specialised tooling and an appetite for top-off upgrades, or those ready to be bled by after-sales services because the design didn't make it DIY, none of which is me.

The other is the facias in the artwork I've seen so far. Its fine in professional kit that lives in a rack but if this stuff is being sold as high-end domestic (and I'm picking that'll be the bulk of their market), it has to look the part for those who want it to look domesticated, especially if it costs more than a couple of grand. Why? Because even the manufacturers of Av processors that cost just a couple of hundred quid, like Onkyo, have sorted out the styling thing. Besides, I'd just prefer not to have another war with my wife about the kit in our lounge if I was to go this route - and from a sound perspective ADA sounds like the the best route to take.

Actually... I've just seen that there is some detail on the Genesis web site for the Suite 7.1 HD that refers to "Full PC Setup system" and an ethernet port. Maybe I'm going off half-cocked here. Hopefully Graham will provide the sought reassurance on that point.
Hiya.

Been busy and not had time to look at the posts much lately, however I still smile at the comments :)

First, yes the ADA can be updated and upgraded, it is not made to be an end user affair simply because the unit's are designed to be custom installation product and 99% of these clients (and several award winning installs, sighted as "clear winners in audio performance") have a good dealer that advises and arranges such updates, as times' have moved on considerably and the client wants to enjoy and not tinker with stuff.... The time for weekly bug fixes and new surround formats has long since gone so user updatable ports are the exception rather than the rule. Anyone that has been in business over 30 years (like ADA) probably know this more than most... As EQ, 3D HDMI capable switching, all current audio formats, dolby Volume, sophisticated input assignments/bass management and IP control are all present in current shipping product, there is not a lot that can be added really..... Such is progress.....

As for users having a go at adding complex DSP programming or hardware mods to their units in this day and age is just plain daft and always best left to those that do this for a living, powerful and complex isn't for most of us to shake a screwdriver at IMHO.... I doubt it would save you any money either...... Support and service is what you get at this level from all angles and that helps get the best from a unit which your hard earnt money has paid for. Nuff said.

As for looks, for sure it is no looker but that misses the point, these are state of the art audio processors for HT use primarily, so for a fully integrated HT setup professionally installed (either a dealer or a forum reader with the necessary skill), one would have to argue if you wanted to stare at it anyway, I'd rather listen and watch the movie/music...... My TAG was under the stairs in an equipment cupboard with a fully integrated control system, and the ADA is now in the same place. As John Dawson of Arcam fame once said "all the user wnats is a bloody play button", staring at the kit isn't done these days except in high end esoteric two channel stuff....
Sorry but that is the way it is now and wife friendly to boot (and I mean everythign from built in speakers and screens to hidden electronics, projectors and sources)....
A proper system upgrade takes into accouint all these requirements, any dealer/CI installer that does this is getting the work becaouse that is what customers want. Us fiomun tyopes may bemoan the passing of the golden age of technology with its daily changes but that has settled down now, its all about performance, and I think it probably always was....
What would you like to see in a modern AP from a features and performance point of view that wasn't in the AV192R? Apart from better performance (HD audio etc.) and reliability i'll wager the list isn't that big... Oh and 1/3rd the cost of the full house AV192R???

Once you get into the PC setup (com port or LAN) suite, you realise that only a few current AP's have the flexibility of the ADA.......... Sure it ain't cheap but then neither is a Mark Levinson 502 which is also a cool sounding product. TAG owners paid upto £17k for their units so I can't beleive its about the money....
 

Miron

Active Member
Graham, some of us see custom installers as just another way to take the money out of our pockets!
 

GrahamMG

Well-known Member
Miron said:
Graham, some of us see custom installers as just another way to take the money out of our pockets!
We are the minority and we may be capable of setting one up to give it's best as it isn't rocket science, but the vast majority of AV192/32 sales were to people that wanted it installed and setup professionally thus ensuring it gave it's best in conjunction with the rest of the installation and control system. People that spent the thick end of £17k deserved no less.
Having seen many TMA installs, for sure
most were done my dealers/CI, and were all the better for it. After all this isn't exactly the owner profile of someone that walks into Currys for a £400 AV receiver.
I would also say that all the DIY installs I have seen of TMA could have been improved upon with some professional setup. I cannot say if an owner would consider that money well spent or not but if a piece of kit isn't delivering it's best that isn't the best value for money either!
Of course many are quiet happy with the sound regardless, I just want the best out of any installed kit and if the owner does not have the kit necessary to do a complete setup or the knowledge or time then a top notch CI dealer would be sensible. Nothing has changed in the intervening years really as that is still the case today.
Remember the dozen of us that were on the forum were different, the other 800 owners (conservative estimate) had them installed by others!
 

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