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Worth upgrading video card?- or PC too slow?

Discussion in 'PC Gaming & Rigs' started by nathan_silly, Jul 5, 2003.

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  1. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    My PC is a Asus TUSL2-C ATX mobo, 512MB RAM, Intel Pentium III 933mhz, Asus 7100 Pro Geforce2 MX400 32MB, SB Live PCI, SCSI card, Network card, DVD-ROM, Yamaha SCSI writer, Umax SCSI scanner, 60GB & 80GB HD & Asus ipanel.

    Some games are a bit slow.. for instance explosions in C&C Generals..would replacing the video card with a Geforce FX improve anything or would there be no difference?

    I've seen all the benchmarks with the new cards.. they don't mean anything unless you upgrade every six months (who can afford to do this?)

    Oh my full tower has 5 x 5.25" spaces... currently all used up! when I buy a DVD writer I'm a bit stuck! (need a full tower with 6+ spaces!:D


    Oh yeah how do you set the directory for My Documents? I'm reinstalling Windows 2000 for somebody.. creating a 5GB partition just for Windows, and need to set the My Docs.. folder to the remaining (75GB)
     
  2. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    You would definately benefit from a g card upgrade but i'd not get the FX since it'd probably be overkill for your current processor. Something from ATI would be good say this:-
    http://www.sapphiretech.com/VGA/9200.asp for around £50.

    Have you a bios upgrade available for your mobo that'll allow you to upgrade your processor as that's getting a bit long in the tooth too (I think the mobo supports up to 1.2GHz). You might be able to pick one up fairly cheaply.
    Memory is very very cheap at the mo a lot of games are very memory intensive so i'd probably get another stick of 512 mb but i've just noticed you've already maxed that out-so no joy there.

    I think in all honesty your gonna have to upgrade everything to be able to play and enjoy the newer games coming out to get the best from them.
    What I'd do (funds permiting) would get a new mobo say (£58):-
    http://www.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A7N8X-X&langs=01
    an XP2400+ for around £60
    A new psu 450 watt for around £30
    Couple of sticks of 256 pc 2700 ddr memory for around £50
    and an ati g card for around £250
    butcher the rest of the parts from your old system and hey presto you've got a super new (ish) machine for a touch under £450.

    or totaly loose the plot and get one of these:-
    http://www.alienware.co.uk/gaming_main.aspx

    nice
    :smashin:
     
  3. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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    Thought so... I'll probably wait until my PC is painfully slow then.. IMO there's no point upgrading until that point.

    I would not buy a ATI card, nor a AMD..

    I left my P200 MMX until it took about 4 mins to boot up Windows 95!- only then did I buy the P3 933.

    Them cases are too small... I would need a huge full tower case.. eight 5.25's should be enough.

    And I don't care what the case looks like... boring black case will do me.. not in UV lighting, flashing LED's... looks tacky.
     
  4. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    My case is a chieftech one. It's got plenty of space and not too expensive.
    Last time round it was my first home build and was suprised how easy it was. Since then I've built a few machines for colleages at work and no probs up to now (fingers crossed).
    If you get a good case and psu to start with you'll be able to upgrade more as you go along.
    I used to just buy a new machine every 2-3 years I don't know yet which is most economical but like the flexability DIY offers.
    The alienware machines aren't my cup of tea either tbh (lookwise) but I like their philosophy and offer great aftersales service (so I've heard) but it would need to be for that price.
     
  5. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    p.s. Whats wrong with AMD and ATI?

    You get better performance for buck on both imo.
     
  6. nathan_silly

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    Stability & Drivers support, respectively.

    I would rather have a CPU that's more expensive but more stable. Every Intel PC I've used is 100% stable.. every AMD PC has either locked up in DOS, locked in installing Windows, crashed in Windows (95, 98, 2000 & XP), rebooted in Windows for no reason, crashed 3D mark etc.. all PC's had updated BIOS, drivers, good quality PSU's etc... I just feel AMD aren't stable.
     
  7. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    I've used five AMD CPU's with no trouble at all? Must admit I'm only on my first ATI G card though - but no problems so far.
     
  8. Garrett

    Garrett
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    I would think other things were causing the faults rather than the CPU. Mine has run rock solid since I got my new HD which I had 3 replacements and changed to a WD. The only trouble I have had in 2 years was tracked down to a bad connection to a cd drive.
    Mind you if you want to pay over the odds who am I to stop you.
    :laugh:
     
  9. nathan_silly

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    The computers where my mate works have replaced the whole network from Intel machines to AMD's...the Intel's were fine, stable. Now with the "faster" AMD's they are actually slower doing CAD & Opengl work.. and crash.. so they're loosing man-hours per day.They'll probably go back to Intel machines soon.
     
  10. Garrett

    Garrett
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    My mate works in the industry and has built a few of my machines, and is always up to speed on computers and he uses nothing but AMD. Intel and AMD do have there strengths AMD has one that makes games faster (floating decimal point?????).
     
  11. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    I must say out of all the machines i've had the amd m'c's have been much more stable. That could obviously be down to the mobo architecture and other components but would never think about not using amd.
    I'll always go for the product that will get the job done for the best price. That at the moment is amd imo but would go back to intel if you got better value for money. Same reasoning applied to g cards. Nvidia have just not been able to compete on performance/price for some time. Again I would go back if the product was the best in performance against price. PQ seems better with ati cards as well (even 2d stuff) but maybe thats just me.
     
  12. Garrett

    Garrett
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    I got this information for you Nathan from the Man himself.
     
  13. nathan_silly

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    Who's Rmag?

    What I like about Nvidia's- even the old video cards (TNT) are supported with the universal driver. Are ATI's supported in the same way?

    Anyway, AMD's are overclocked from the factory.

    I've read enough reports on VIA chipset problems with Soundblaster Live, Highpoint & Promise IDE controllers to put me off them.

    And seeing a mates AMD reboot for no reason again having my doubts..loosing work due to crashes, bought a cheap Intel P300 just as server- that is rock stable. I have a low powered PSU with lots of components installed.. does my computer reboot/crash/lockup? nope.

    It's good AMD exist purely as competetion for Intel- but I would not buy AMD..and would not recommend them.
     
  14. HMHB

    HMHB
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    I've got a ATI Radeon 9000 in one of my computers and I have nothing but trouble with the drivers. It still won't recognise the VIVO part of it so I have given in.
    In another one I have a Ti4200-8x 128MB Nvidia card and it's great. Works fisrt time, drivers always load properly. It also has good performance for the price beating some of the new FX cards (admitedly the entry level ones). I bought this as an interim card until the FX5900 cards become more affordable and I don't regret it. It's running on an old ASUS A7V motherboard and it's made a big difference from when I was running a Geforce 2 card
     
  15. Garrett

    Garrett
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    Rmag is someone who actually knows a hell off a lot more about computers than you like to think you know.:laugh:
     
  16. nathan_silly

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    So who is he then?

    I find your comments quite offensive. You do not know of my experience with computers..
     
  17. Garrett

    Garrett
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    He went to university for computers and has worked in the industry for a good number of years. And has often gone round the world sorting computer problems out.

    So what are your qualifications then?
     
  18. nathan_silly

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    Didn't go to uni (and going to uni doesn't mean anything)... and work in the industry.
     
  19. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    come now gentlemen (you'll be breaking those hand bags out soon-lol) it comes down to personal choice and what issues we've all had with our own (and other ppl's) systems in the past.
    I for one am pleased we have a choice at least and believe a good stable system can now be attained with any combination of parts be they AMD, Intel, ATI or Nvidia (providing the bits are compatable with each other)
     
  20. HMHB

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    Yes it's not worth getting into an argument about. There are advantages and disadvantages to all of the major ones. At the moment I prefer Intel and Nvidia but that may change with the latest 64 bit chips from AMD.
     
  21. Garrett

    Garrett
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    So are you saying going to university is no good now?
     
  22. HMHB

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    I do know what Nathan means - but wouldn't have put it as such a sweeping statement. I have worked with people who have computer degrees and some of them haven't got a clue about writing programs and maintaining large software packages. Having said that 90% of them do know and just need a bit more industrial experience.
    I'm having to deal with someone at the moment fresh out of Uni with degree so thinks he knows it all and he is totally out of his depth.
     
  23. nathan_silly

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    Well all the people I know who've been to uni have got similar jobs to those with know-how in the first place.

    I know someone with a electronics degree... he doesn't know how to solder, or what a capacitor or resistor looks like in real life! (only knows what the symbol in the designs)

    Oh yeah he wired up and switchd on huge cap (used in industrial equipment) incorrectly.. he switched it on... if his head was above it when it switched on... goodbye head.
     
  24. Garrett

    Garrett
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    Yes JohnG it was the sweeping statement I took issue with. As I said Rmag has more than just qualifications.

    In future I will not bother him to help folk out in particular Nathan if this response is typical when folk are trying to help out.

    Nathan we were only saying AMD are good processors to save you money and not to get you to put a duff CPU in you machine.

    By the way.
     

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  25. Iain Shields

    Iain Shields
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    Garrett, you made a statement yourself that he had every right to take issue with...

    I've never heard who Rmag is either and would've been just as annoyed as Nathan after being presented with such an ignorant comment...

    ...from a "moderator" no less :thumbsdow
     
  26. Garrett

    Garrett
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    This was E-Mailed to me last night at 23.36 from Rmag which should clear things up:

    Below are my rebuttal comments to Mr N_Silly ;)

    By Rmag

    =========






    This is not a bragging match.... but a little about me since you asked:



    I have worked for the last 10 years for companies such as Commodore UK, Siemens Nixdorf, Dell, Compaq, HP, Teledanmark ( Denmark’s national career ) , Belgacom ( national carrier of Belgium ), Vodaphone and many more
    as both a hardware / software trouble shooter and developer.
    I am qualified to fix and maintain Alpha servers , telco back office switches, PC's an other associated hardware with a Cisco CNA qualifications amongst other industry standard ratings.
    I have worked all across Europe and in the States as well as remotely on large scale projects in Japan, Australia and other countries.
    Apart from working in the industry, I am an avid enthusiast in my spare time - helping maintain gaming web communities, hosting IRC servers, developing channel and server management bots - as well as custom building pc hardware and modding



    My current system is a vapochill ( phase cooled ) rig with an AMD cpu clocked up to 2.6GHz - 1 gig of corsair ram - with mother board hardware modifications to allow core over volting etc.
    my other pc's are a tad less special - a couple of 1gig athlons 512meg in each for web servers and Linux development and a HP kayak dual Pentium / scsi raid that I am software and hardware building into a Gigabit Ethernet game server for an upcoming 200 player LAN.



    oh, and I do prattle on about computers alot ;)



    Both ATI and Nvidia have historically had driver issues - Nvidia dealt with this first , but ATI have now caught up and offer the same available stability and Packaged driver sets to cover the 9XXX range of cards.
    I have actually been biased towards Nvidia in the past - but the current ATI cards like the 9700 and 9800 are superb components - though I am considering the FX5900 ultra atm.





    Ridiculous - in fact its often the case that they are under clocked
    Often a manufacturer will produce its top MHz chip - then run another identical waffered batch and simply hard wire the chip bridges to a lower clock rate.
    Manufacturers don't have 10 different production lines - its simply not cost effective
    - so to make up numbers they sometimes take for example an xp2400+ chip in the middle of manufacture and set the bridges to produce an xp1800+ which is more in demand ( or was several months ago ).
    They certainly don't over clock from the factory - and I am surprised that anyone would be uneducated enough or gullible to believe such tripe.
    The net is full of myths - and I do understand its hard to spot what’s true of false..... generally you need to question the validity of such comments before taking them as read and sticking them up on forums.





    More often than not - this is due to people not reinstalling the operating system with a new mobo - and legacy drivers for the old system causing conflicts.
    Also a problem is people mistakenly using win 98 drivers with XP and vice versa.
    Usually it’s simply a matter of going to the manufacture web site and downloading the latest drivers to solve any real driver bug issues.
    Plus via chipsets are used in both Intel and amd motherboards
    both AMD and Intel cpu have motherboards that do or don't use via chipsets - they are not specific nor forced to buy.





    a Pentium p300 requires far less power than either a Pentium P4 2.8ghz or an AMD 2800+
    try popping either of those in and your power supply will fail to deliver the required amount of power.
    Computer that crash or lock up etc is more often due to faulty ram - over heating due to badly installed or inadequate heat sinks or insufficient power supplies.
    There are many more possible reasons - but these are the most common.



    One of the main reasons why AMD has had more issues with these problems is down to their popularity with enthusiast home builders - incorrectly fitting parts and using hardware that is not up to the job.
    Far more people have opened up the case and popped AMD's in than Intel’s - which on balance tend to be in preinstalled boxes.
    A correctly put together box with the correct power supply and heat sink etc will NOT fall over.
    Mine has NEVER crashed due to those reasons - and my AMD chips are used in my servers that run for many many months at a time without issues.





    we are all entitled to our opinions no matter how much the are based on conjecture or not.
    I recommend BOTH Intel and AMD chips for different purposes and budgets.

    End of e-mail

    And Iain my comment was a joke hence the smile which you edited out in your quote.
     
  27. Mike Swannick

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    Advantage - Rmag.
     
  28. nathan_silly

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    Mods please close.
     
  29. Garrett

    Garrett
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    Nathan as I implied in the previous post I replied to your thread to point out your misconception of AMD, CPU’s and hope you find the last posting by me for Rmag very informative as I hope other readers of the thread will.

    I would not say advantage Rmag as he was just stating facts and in no way trying to score points. But I thank him for taking time to undo some misconceptions.
     
  30. Kramer

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    :rotfl:

    At last, Silly nathan's been quietened.

    :smashin:

    BTW, excellent e-mail ;)
     
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