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Worth getting a dedicated processor

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by fred123go, Nov 11, 2003.

  1. fred123go

    fred123go
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    Hey all,
    I have a integrated av receiver atm, pioneer vsx-d2011, but soon i will upgrade, if funds allow!, to a Rotel 1075 multichannel power amp. I will keep the Pioneer as a processor, would you all suggest i go full out and go for a new processor and see any advantages over the processing abilities of the 2011?i mean i am on a v strict budget after the power amp and probably will only have £400 max left over for the processor.
    cheers all
    Fred
     
  2. rags

    rags
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    I would definately say yes that a seperate processor will be better.
    But you have to spend reasonable dosh to get a decent one even second hand and I cant think of anything around the 400 mark even second hand that will be an improvement over your pioneer. I would stick with the pioneer until you can shell out a bit more.
     
  3. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    You won't get a useful processor for £400. Could that be increased if you sell the 2011, or does the £400 include that?
     
  4. fred123go

    fred123go
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    Hey there,
    I would be sellin my Pioneer receiver to get it so i will have probs max about 600/700 quid to play around with, but i am not going to sell it unless i hear a real difference, is my processign abilities of my receiver that bad?!i mean i also do want to keep the THX processing, as i much prefer it, so what would the cheapest THX processor available which is alos better?
    cheers
    Fred
     
  5. chips

    chips
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    S/H Lexicon DC-1 or DC-2?
     
  6. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    If you're buying new then you won't get anything useful that is cheaper than £1000 or £1100 - that will get you a Rotel RSP1066 or a Cyrus AV8. (Either of these would be a big step up from your Pioneer).

    You could probably also get a second hand Lexicon DC2 for that sort of money, which would be a better deal, especially if you're more interested in films than in stereo music.

    If you move a little farther up the price scale (still <£1500) then you could get a 2nd hand Lexicon MC-1 (very good value at the price), or a Tag McLaren AV32R, or (if you're lucky) a Meridian 568 mk I. A second hand Naim AV2 would probably also be at about that price level, but they're pretty rare.
     
  7. fred123go

    fred123go
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    Hey there, I think i will probably go for the RSP-1066, it is a good looking, new and up-to-date processor that would go perfect with the Rotel Power amp 1075 power amp. The processor can probably wait till June/July time-i am sure i won't kill myself by using the Pioneer's processing capibilities till then!
    anyway thanks for all the input guys, and i think £900 is about the limit i can go too!After all i am student as well!
    Fred
     
  8. fred123go

    fred123go
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    but then i would be missing out on THX processing....wouldn't i just get a better performance if i went for the Pioneer AX-10i integrated av amplifier?
    cheers
    Fred
     
  9. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    The Pioneer AX10 and Denon A1SR are roughly equivalent in quality to a Rotel processor/amp combination, possibly a little weaker. Something like a Lexicon MC-1 would be substantially better.
     
  10. Gatto

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  11. Smurfin

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    Fred, stick with what you have for now. imho you should be looking at speakers, in particular a subwoofer before doing anything else.

    The 2011 is a good amp, sounds like you're upgrading for the sake of it;)
     
  12. fred123go

    fred123go
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    Hey there Smurfin,
    I do realise that it is a great amp and that i should enjoy it but i feel i could get a much better sound through changing it, particularly at higher volumes.
    Also i will be getting a new subwoofer march time as well, so no worries in that department.
    cheers
    Fred
     
  13. buns

    buns
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    I think smurf means your speakers are likely to be the weak link, not your amp

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  14. fred123go

    fred123go
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    So you guys reckon my speakers are the weak link in my system?!
    Cheers guys
    Fred
     
  15. buns

    buns
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    they definitely would be if you upgraded the amp to the extent you suggest. I think that what is meant really is that if you want to get some really big changes, speakers are the easiest way to do it.

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  16. fred123go

    fred123go
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    hmmm...which package do you guys suggest i upgrade to?i like the look of the m and k's, i probably will go with the Denon amp first, in february time, get the subwoofer round April time and then get the new speaker system in the summer.
    Fred
     
  17. buns

    buns
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    If you want bang for your buck, stuff the denon, sod passive speakers and get yourself a good processor in combo with a set of actives like the mackie 624's or equivalent.

    Of course that said, all your projectoring probably means you should have money set asside for a scaler.

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  18. chrisgeary

    chrisgeary
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    I think its interesting how those three letters can cause such confusion. THX. Its a set of standards for audiovisual reproduction. I really cant understand how that certification can be applied to a mid-range AV amp but still.

    THX or not THX, surely your ears and your eyes should be your guides, not what the label says!
     
  19. buns

    buns
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    THX is a set of standards, but there is no mention of the quality of that standard

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  20. ailean

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    I gave up on THX when they stuck it on video tape... ;)

    Still waiting for my THX certified fridge!

    But hey it's always nice to have an extra badge or two on the front of you gear.... except maybe the Micro$oft one on the new Pio AX10Ai. :rolleyes:
     
  21. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    One has to a little careful about assessing active speakers in value-for-money terms. Consider, for example, M&K 2510P speakers. The last time I checked the official UK price for these was about £1400 each. The passive version was £700 each. Now, if you're looking to set up a full 7.1 system, that means you're spending a total of £9800 on your satellite speakers, and £4900 on amplification alone.

    I'm quite sure that 2510Ps sound better than the passive 2510s do, no matter how good your external amplification may be. So in that sense, getting the active version is good value. But whether 2510Ps are going to sound better than any set of 7 passive satellite speakers with any amplification (such that speakers and amplification together cost a total of £10,000 or less) is not quite so clearcut. (Maybe they do, in practice - my point is simply that it is a question worth asking).

    IMO you have to be a little careful about the price of active speakers if you're planning on using a large number of them.
     
  22. fred123go

    fred123go
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    Cheers for the input guys, but:
    1) i much prefer using the THX EX processing for some films, e.g. tlotr ttt.
    2)i am on a budget here guys!a tight one as well!
    I have a budget of about 2 grand after saving till the end of april. In that budget i would like the Denon AVC-A11SR amplifier and a £500 sub, probably a REL one. So in about 6 months time i would have a very very good amplifier and a very good sub...and my Mordaunt Short system.
    If i were to upgrade my package in the summer time, i know it is along time away, but which 6/7 speaker package would you get for around 2 grand?obviously without the sub
    cheers
    Fred
     
  23. tk2001

    tk2001
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    fred123go,

    I would seriously think about keeping your MS-THX speakers for now. I use to own the package and to this day I think that it is a very good package for the money. If your Pionner D2011 struggles to play at the volume levels that you require, then getting the Rotel 1075 should remedy that problem. Other than the 2011's ability to drive the MS-500 speakers at incredible volume levels, you seem to be happy with its processing abilities. Why spend money on a processor when you don't need to?

    My advice would be to get the Rotel 1075 first and that should sort out your volume level problems. If after taken ownership of a 1075 for awhile you then feel that you don't like the sound of your system, then you may need to look at changing your speakers and if you really need to, at a later date a processor.

    Btw, I personally think that adding THX processing to dvd soundtracks chops too much of the treble away and I haven't found one instance where adding THX processing proved to be useful. My preference of course.
     
  24. fred123go

    fred123go
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    Hey there,
    I prefer THX processing on some films, like i said tlotr:ttt and some others, in my experience anyway.
    hmmm this is a very hard decision, i would like to upgrade to say a better integrated amplifier, eg Pioneer AX-10/Denon AVC-A11SR.....this upgrade will not be till february/march time so lots of time to think about it and go for auditions.
    I am going with my uncle to a audio/visual show in february anyway so i will probably choose there, if they have any amps/processors in my price range!
    cheers
    Fred
     
  25. tk2001

    tk2001
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    Fred,

    Why do you want to upgrade to a Pioneer AX-10/Denon AVC-A11SR?

    IMHO, I don't think it will give you a substantial improvement over your Pioneer 2011, at least not processing wise - and this is from someone who upgraded from a Denon 3802 to an A11SR to an A1SE (upgraded to A1SR specs)! If you do decide to get one of the high-end intergrated amps, you will no doubt want to upgrade to a processor/power-amp combo at a later date so why not slowly move towards that path now (which I believe will save you money in the long run)?


    Try to get hold of the Rotel 1075 or maybe a store will be kind enough to allow you to home demo one and see how well it pairs with your Pioneer 2011.
     
  26. fred123go

    fred123go
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    Hey there,
    i want the best sound from my speakers, i feel the 2011 struggles at higher volumes and so i feel i need a more powerful amplfier.
    so you reckon the AX-10i would not be a better sounding amp than the 2011?
    I have also considered seperates, the Rotel 1075 looks good by spec so i have considered that and also the Rotel 1066 processor to go with it...but then i would really like THX processing...decisions...decisions..
    ok 2 grand what would you buy tk2001?
    cheers
    Fred
     
  27. tk2001

    tk2001
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    Fred,

    The AX-10i will no doubt be a better sounding amp than your than your but will you be happy paying that amount of money for a not so substantial step-up in sound?

    I think the Rotel 1066 has the ability to chop-off very high frequencies in the same way THX processing does, so maybe this will prove useful to you.

    If I was in your shoes and I had 2 grand to upgrade my system, I would at geting a Rotel 1075 first, as this will drive the MS-500 speakers more comfortably at higher volume levels than the Pioneer 2011. That leaves me with £1200. If I still wasn't happy with the sound, I would then get rid of the Pioneer 2011 and with the money I get from the 2011 plus the £1200, that should bump it up to at least £1500-1700) I would spend it on a decent second processor. Depending on where your priorities lie, on movies or music, which features you want, there are really decent processors to be had for around £1500-1700 and below and at this price I would try to demo as much as possible, preferable at the confort of your home.
     
  28. fred123go

    fred123go
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    cheers mate,
    sorry for all the hassle, the Rotel 1075 looks a great power amp but there is only one thing...i would like 7.1 surround sound as i will soon after the amp be getting an extra set of Mordaunt Short 506's surrounds.
    Basically 2 grand is my limit, as in total limit. The Denon AVC-A11SR looks a great amp, only one question to you as you owned it-did you notice an improvement on the SQ upgrading from a Denon 3803, similar to the 2011, to the AVC-A11SR? All i need is a more powerful amp, and this looks the perfect option, with THX processing.
    Fred
     
  29. tk2001

    tk2001
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    Fred,

    Hmm, now knowing that you wish to upgrade 7.1 set-up, perhaps an A11SR or even an A1SR would be a better solution. You could pick up a A11SR new for around £1200 or even a A1SR second-hand for around £1500. The Denon's sound is slightly more warmer than the Pioneer's thus is more easier to listen to at very high volume levels.

    The improvements from the 3802 to the A11SR wasn't as big as I was hoping for, and pitching the 3802 t the same performance level as the 2011, I'd say that you will notice an improvement over your 2011, just don't expect to be blown away by improvements.
     
  30. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Alternatively Fred, you could buy my Lexicon DC-2 processor as advertised on the classifieds, and THX1138's Rotel 1075 (I'm running that combo atm).

    I think most people would agree that this combo would be better than any flagship amps such as the Pioneer AX10 or the Denon flagship.

    But hey, don't listen to me, I'm on the sell ;)
     

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