Wooden engineered flooring

[DaveHope]

Hi all,

I'm contemplating a Christmas project of laying an engineered wooden floor in my flat (Kitchen, lounge, entrance hall and maybe bathroom). It's a small flat, so only 30 sq.m in all. It's a steel frame flat with concrete floor. I'll rip out the carpet and install the underlay, electric heating and engineered floor.

I've got some questions (unfortunately, none of them specific to A/V ) and would appreciate feedback from anyone who's done this themselves too.

• One of the seemingly important things to consider is the wear layer. I'm looking at some varying from 2-4mm oak, any thoughts as to what that depth likely to withstand?
  
• I'll probably get my flooring from B&Q (So that I can over-order and then return what I don't use). Any thoughts on the quality of their flooring? If not B&Q, it'll be these guys - Florence Engineered Rustic Oak 180mm Bevelled Matt Lacquer - Engineered range Again, any idea what they're like ?
  
• I'm far from a DIY God (I've been known to put up shelves, mirrors etc but that's about it). Is laying engineered flooring something that's fairly straight forward (it looks it) or is it best left to the pros? Any words of advice? Electric work for the heating would be done by an electrician friend in exchange for lots of post-work beers.

Thanks in advance guys

 

[Crooksey]

Laying engineered wood flooring is a bit of a task, but if your competent it can go OK.

You need to leave an expansion gap around the edge of the room and round the door frames. Or cut the doorframes and slide the flooring underneath, still leaving a gap for the floor to expand.

If buying the flooring I would only use Quicksteps Palazzo or Kahrs. Quickstep palazzo comes with a lifetime warranty as well, so thats a massive bonus.

If the floor isn't level you will also need to glue the floor, or latex screed it first.

Laying laminate flooring is hard enough to get a perfect finish on for a novice DIYER. With engineered wood its even harder as you have to leave the correct expansion gaps, apply adhesive and work with boards that are alot larger.

If I was you, I would call a professional floor layer, not a handyman that says "yea I can do wood flooring". But if you would rather do it yourself and not have the best finish, then go for it mate!

 

[shadybrady]

Laying an engineered wood floor is exactly as described by crooksey in that it is a task in itself.

If you had access to plenty of diy tools then great but i laid my wood floor and if i hadnt had a lot of decent tools then it would have been a nightmare.

What tools do you have - do you have a chopsaw / tapping blocks / wood glue / plenty of underlay / a good hand saw for cutting the door architraves / a mitre saw for the scotia and good chisels and nails to remove and refit skirting ?

Its quite a job also if the sub floor is not level !

Also what is your budget for the flooring ?

Even though I like good solid wood flooring sometimes the benefit of decent laminate outweighs the wood flooring for ease of fit and wear and easier for accommodating uneven floors with the right underlay.
You will also find at times that B&Q will run out/not get in the trims and extras for the flooring as we found out when we bought our flooring.

Have a look at PERGO flooring - very good quality laminate that is easy to fit and you can get all manner of trims and edge strips to make the job look great, we fitted Pergo to our conservatory and office and we will be fitting it in our downstairs office.

STAY WELL AWAY FROM B&Q LAMINATES !! They are poorly made from cheap rubbish and it can turn a simple job into a nightmare !!

Shady

 

[DaveHope]

Thanks for the advice thus far guys, greatly appreciated :shashin:

I'd likely persuade my father to help out, who has just about every tool you can imagine (and, is a talented DIY-er).

Budget for flooring and Underlay is around £1000. Underfloor heating on top of that. Karndean come recommended but are way over budget. I might get a local floorer in to quote just to see what the labour would set me back but I expect it'd put me way over budget.

I'm keen to avoid laminates and either go for engineered board or just buy new carpet. I've ordered some samples from on-line retailers, so will be trying to dig car keys into them and all sorts to see how they're going to wear. A trip to Wickes to see what they have is on the cards too.

 

[Dan Baker]

I just finished laying real wood flooring in my lounge an dining room and pictures can be found in my thread below (around pages 7 & 8 I think).

I'm not exagerating when I say I had never used a drill really till this year so I'm by no means an accomplished DIYer.

I spent a lot of time with help from a friend getting the first couple of rows right which made things a lot easier.

I ended up laying most if myself and I'm really pleased with how it's turned out.

The good thing for me was I had time on my side so I did take my time with it and probably took three time as much if not more than what a professional would take.

I guess what I'm getting at is that if I can manage it with a bit of help then I think anyone can!

I got my flooring from homesbase and it's their Birch variety, I'd heard good reviews on it can be refinished up to five times. You should be able to get that on budget depending on how big your room is!

Good luck,
Dan.

 

[mr-gobby]

Why put electric underfloor heating in? It can be a bit costly to buy and run and as wood isn't particularly cold underfoot it might be a bit of a luxury (I have it in hall and dining room on conc floor with rads) up to you of course.

Wood in a bathroom isnt ideal as water ingress can mark it and it may turn a bit black as a result around the joins and look unsightly.

Have you considerd Bamboo, it's fine in bathrooms, a very stylish and nice alternative to wood, hard wearing and often a cheaper option. It looks good and can have underfloor heating if required. Loads of places on the internet sell it, just allow about 10% waste for quantities.

Fitting wood or bamboo should go okay if you think it through first and read everything you can about fitting tools required and the techniques, otherwise I'd imagine you'd be quoted about £500-£600 fitting plus vat if you supply the materials, Pro's will prefer to supply the goods as then they can offer a guarantee on the job. Best jobs have skirting removed and refitted or replaced on top rather than using scotia trims.

Mark

 

[j3ff]

Evening,

some good points from the guys already.

Re the wear layer: you can get a variety of thicknesses. The choice is up to you really. I have put quite a bit of this stuff down and it does seem to vary in quality.

I'm shortly going to put some 20mm engineered oak down at home. This is 20mm overall with a 6mm wear layer. Personally I think this is a good balance. I'll be floating the floor but you can also glue it (or nail it) direct to the subfloor. I'd expect to be able to sand it 2 or 3 times if needed. If it was solid it would be about the same (i.e. 6mm) before you sanded through to the tounge of the board.


Re the underfloor heating: engineered is def the way to go if you're set on uhf. Not sure how the running costs will stack up if it's to be the primary heat source. I've got under-tile (warmup) heating under 2 bathroom floors but we only use it to take the edge off the tiles so the running costs don't sting too much.

Re doing it yourself: It's crucial to get the first few rows dead right or you'll be in a world of pain! However, take your time, follow the guidelines and set out properly and there's no reason you shouldn't make a good fist of it.

Some useful info here Wood You Like Natural Wooden Flooring - Home of Real Wood - Welcome to our world

all the best

jeff

 

[Crooksey]

You mentioned Karndean... you do realise this is nothing like a wood floor? Its a vinyl plank.

 

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

I have recently floored most of my house with kahrs Ardenne oak flooring and its beautiful stuff and fits together well. Beware it will mark and actually dents quite easily but i think that adds to the character of it. My advice would be get decent underlay (tradepriced.co.uk are very competitive) and buy the thickest engineered wood you can afford. If you look around and can wait till after Christmas you can often get very good deals in the sales.

 

[Eltee]

We have used engineered boards by this company and theya have been down for 4 years and still look new.

home.tarkett.co.uk

 

[DaveHope]

Thanks for all your help guys, didn't expect such a detailed level of response.

RE the under floor heating. My flat has no gas (grr) so uses night-storage heaters (Economy 7). My electrician friend has devices a simple way of running the underfloor heating on Economy7 and switching between the two supplies, without loss of power. I can get all the electrical bits at trade price, and the fitting for free so in my mind it's an option at least. It'd probably become the primary source of heating, but not sure on the running costs. Something for me to look into certainly.

I've decided to rule out the bathroom for the time being, due to a few reasons (cost, needing to get suitable engineered board for the bathroom, laying a suitable underlay, difficulty of cutting around toilers, basins etc ).

I'm still unsure as to how well certain aspects would turn out (the edge between rooms with and without the new floor, the drop/rise could look odd especially by the time latex, underlay and wood has been laid!)

 

[Ionkontrol]

I am about to buy and lay 70 meters of engineered oak, once I have laid my audio cables..
After months of debating which one to buy, I am going to go with these guys.
Products | French Timber Direct

7mm top layer over 16mm birch ply core. Really long and wide boards and excellent prices.
They do come without a finish coat of laquer or wax, but at that price, cant be beat.

 

[inzaman]

If you are using the ufh as a primary heating source it will be expensive, we used it in one room last year (well one room leading into the conservatory) about 30ft by 15ft and it was very expensive. We have an electricity monitor now and when the ufh is on the rev counter thing is maxed out. It is now used to take the chill off the floor and from the room slightly but the monitor is still maxed out until the cylce goes onto the lower heat setting. I have lowered both max heat and low heat to help reduce the bills somewhat and we also put it on later in the year and turn it off earlier.

 

[Crooksey]

I am about to buy and lay 70 meters of engineered oak, once I have laid my audio cables..
After months of debating which one to buy, I am going to go with these guys.
Products | French Timber Direct

7mm top layer over 16mm birch ply core. Really long and wide boards and excellent prices.
They do come without a finish coat of laquer or wax, but at that price, cant be beat.

The prices aren't that great mate, and the finishing will be a pain in the arse!

 

[Ionkontrol]

The prices aren't that great mate, and the finishing will be a pain in the arse!

Really? If you can point me in the direction of a similar spec product cheaper, I'm all ears.

 

[Crooksey]

Well i take it you realise the amount of work required in laying these boards yourself? Wood floor laying is an art and a good finish and a perfect finish are two different things. With boards this size and thickness you will have your work cut out.

Buying pre-finished boards are alot easier to handle and dont need to be sanded or have a top coat applied. Finishing floorbaords is time consuming and expensive and if done incorrectly it will ruin what could be an amazing floor.

But if you want it.. go for it, there is some real work involved with it mate!

 

[richsmif]

Im putting down some Wexford oak Satin Lacquered Engineered flooring.

I laid an engineered oak floor in my previous house and it still sitting there. I avoided solid oak as i didnt want to glue or nail it down. The only problem i found as it was not acquered was wear traffic set in within a few years aswell as dirt ingress. It became obvious where furniture was and where people walked.

Dont matter how many times i washed it, dirt still set into the grain. I had laminate floors upstairs that still looked sparkly brand new and they were older.

I was insistant on real wood though due to heat reflection, sound and feel.

So learning from previous mistakes and applying to my current project, i will be getting satin Lacquered as its perfectly smooth and protected. Previous floor was 5 years old, so Lacquered should last 10 at least. Then just sand it and restain it if im still there. Will put down laminate in the hallway and bedrooms.

 

[deansocial]

Im putting down some Wexford oak Satin Lacquered Engineered flooring.

I laid an engineered oak floor in my previous house and it still sitting there. I avoided solid oak as i didnt want to glue or nail it down. The only problem i found as it was not acquered was wear traffic set in within a few years aswell as dirt ingress. It became obvious where furniture was and where people walked.

Dont matter how many times i washed it, dirt still set into the grain. I had laminate floors upstairs that still looked sparkly brand new and they were older.

I was insistant on real wood though due to heat reflection, sound and feel.

So learning from previous mistakes and applying to my current project, i will be getting satin Lacquered as its perfectly smooth and protected. Previous floor was 5 years old, so Lacquered should last 10 at least. Then just sand it and restain it if im still there. Will put down laminate in the hallway and bedrooms.

so the previous floor was not laquered or oiled? if so it will so muck quickly as unfinished flooring it exactly what it says unfinished and need the required finish putting on when layed, you get a bett floor this way but only if you have all the correct equipment etc to do so. prefinished all the way for me solid or engineered.

 

[richsmif]

It was stained honey oak colour. Just the surface of the oak was not perfectly smooth and you could feel the grain....Even the new sheets you can feel the grain/see the grain....but you just dont realise years down the line it holds the dirty and looks a sh*t. Ah well, live and learn.

Same when i bought some rustic oak dark laminate for my son's room....looked nice on teh B&Q wall....but a whole room full of it...ewww....hated it. Also no bevels so it was perfectly flat and looked un-natural. Maybe i got spoiled with the real wood floor. I used a cheaper real wood top oak from floormaster - clickloc stuff in my office and that stood up well to the test of time. You could see high heel shoe indentations in it but that its mainly. (please no jokes)

Best "laminate" i used was beveloc honey oak from B&Q for £15 a sqm....usually reduced to £12 sqm in there sales quite often.... when there next sale is on, i'm getting a load for the bedrooms here. The bevel breaks up the pattern so dont look likes its repeating and looks really nice. These companies though should vary the print more often in laminate so it looks more natural but hey what do i know.

 

[deansocial]

they do vary the print if you pay decent money for it.

 

[mr-gobby]

Dave, the steps you mention between rooms with and without engineered boards would be finished with a solid wood trim, square shaped if butting up to something (i.e. to carpet,ceramic tiles,stone floor) or ramped/sloped versions if going down levels to say vinyl fitted in a bathroom. Tarkett trims are good as I recall and do ones to suit most species of timber. Probably wont need to latex floor unless really uneven in which case just fill the hollows. Underlay is only 2/3mm so nothing really. Best to remove sink, toilet and bath panel then refit them ontop when fitting in a bathroom, can look ghastly otherwise. A good compromise in the bathroom would be wood effect vinyl sheet matching the plank or strip effect wood flooring you decide on. I'll assume it will be oak or beech and vinyl is easily sourced to match them. Oiled engineered boards will look better than laquered ones when scratched (which will happen!) Hope this helps.

 

[DaveHope]

Thanks for all your help guys, there's a wealth of knowledge in this thread. Unfortunately I managed to (probably) write off my car yesterday, so the wooden floor project will be on hold for a while

Thanks again!

 

[j3ff]

Thanks for all your help guys, there's a wealth of knowledge in this thread. Unfortunately I managed to (probably) write off my car yesterday, so the wooden floor project will be on hold for a while

Thanks again!

Sorry to hear that Dave, hope everyone's ok! Good health is more important than a new floor/car/tv..etc!

regards

jeff