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"Wobbling" with HDMI...

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Brogan, Jan 18, 2004.

  1. Brogan

    Brogan
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    Not sure if this is the correct forum so mod's feel free to move it.

    Anyway, we were watching Star Wars II last night.
    DVD is an 868 connected via HDMI to a 504.

    On a couple of scenes I noticed the "wobbling" problem where the outline of an object moves and the rest of the object seems to "wobble" before catching up with the outline.
    It was most noticeable on Samuel L Jackson's forehead (go figure) on close-ups and happened several times.

    I've seen this before - mainly on Stargate (again on Teal'c's forehead) but put this down to the low bit rate of Sky One channel.

    Surely though this shouldn't happen with a DVD of this quality and an HDMI connection which has such a high bandwidth?

    I'll play the scenes back later today and make a note of the time stamps and also the transfer rate in case anyone else is able to check.

    I wonder if it could be related to some of the DVD and plasma settings like: MPEG NR, CTI, etc? :confused:
     
  2. Brogan

    Brogan
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    There's actually a good scene on disk 2 which demonstrates this very well.

    It's deleted scene 3 - Obi Wan and Mace on the Jedi landing platform, chapter 78-6.
    Right at the end of the scene when there's a full face shot of Samuel LJ you can clearly see his forehead "wobbling" as he's talking to Obi Wan.
    Anyone else see this?
     
  3. Jeff

    Jeff
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    It sounds like some sort of picture processing like noise reduction.
     
  4. suzywong

    suzywong
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    Can't see it, but then again...I'm not quite sure what I should be looking for!!!

    anyway FWIW, a selection of my settings is

    screen:
    1080i via HDMI, MPEG NR & DNR = mid, CTI & DRE = off

    player:
    Prog Motion, YNR, CNR, Sharpness High, Sharpness Low, Detail = 4
    HDMI detail = 6
     
  5. mseabroo

    mseabroo
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    I have seen what seems to be exactly the same thing on other disks, Notably "Merlin". Don't recall noticing it on SWII though.
    This was not on a plasma but an RPTV (100HZ)

    I also put it down to poor bit rate, at least initialy.
    Picture settings or MPEG decoding may have something to dow ith it though. I found it was not as noticable on different players and with different DNR settings.

    Hardly conclusive though.
     
  6. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Noise reduction always produces artefacts, I would recommend having it swithed off most of the time.
     
  7. Brogan

    Brogan
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    Suzywong, I am surprised you're using the 1080i output from the 868.
    According to my understanding, this will require scaling up for both H and V from the player and then down for H and V by the panel - essentially 2 steps of scaling in each direction.
    Do you find this gives the best picture?
    Thanks for the other settings - I'll check to see what mine are.

    BTW, does the "progressive" option on the 868 have any effect when using HDMI?
    By that I mean will switching it on or off have any effect?
    Does HDMI utilise prog scan?
     
  8. Brogan

    Brogan
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    I was just about to ask that very question Jeff.
    If there is an all digital path from the player to the panel (as is the case with HDMI) then surely there is no need for noise reduction?
     
  9. Jeff

    Jeff
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    I guess it can help sometimes if the source material (DVD or whatever) has a lot of grain in it, NR would help clean it up a bit. I just find the negatives usually outway the benefits. I have faroudja NR and even that is horrid.
     
  10. suzywong

    suzywong
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    I'm surrupticiously trying out all the settings on the "focus group" (i.e. family members) to see if there any comments (positive or negative).

    A colleague at work also has a 868/504 combo and he swears by 1080i.

    The other reason that I've been trying 1080i (and 720p for that matter) is that I was getting a very odd effect on a certain DVD when using the HDMI on progressive setting. The DVD is "Yes at the House of Blue". Using HDMI 567p, I would get loads of short horizontal lines whenever a (near) vertical line or edge traversed horizontally. Very obvious on the splash screen with large black lettering moving to the left on a which background. This did not happen which HDMI 576i or with Component 576i/p. The only other DVD to exhibit this trait was Led Zeppelin

    Curiously enough it doesn't happen any more (I've just tried it on every HDMI setting); this may well be because I've been trying out other settings, especially the noise reduction ones.

    There are just so many parameter options (I've now got them all listed on a spreadsheet (sad muppet that I am)....it's enough to confuse a cat!
     
  11. Brogan

    Brogan
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    Oh dear...:blush:
    I'm afaraid I fall into that category and not only for the 868...
    I have every option for my 868, 504 and AX5 in one multi-workbook spreadsheet - even all of the MCACC settings...:rolleyes:
    Now that's sad! :rotfl:

    Thanks for the feedback - useful information as I don't really have the time to do extensive testing.
    We only watch 1 or 2 movies a week and that's usually on a Saturday night so it leaves little time for testing/tweaking, etc.

    I'm trying a radical approach now in that I've turned off all noise reduction on both the 504 and 868 and I'm going to see how that works.
    In theory, it should produce the best results as the HDMI connection is all digital.
    We shall see...
     
  12. Brogan

    Brogan
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    BTW, how do you manage to tweak the Video Adjust settings on the 868 considering the OSD takes up about 90% of the screen?
    It's great that you can adjust them while a disc is playing but essentially worthless as you can only see the edges which makes it difficult to see the effects...:rolleyes:

    After a bit of experimenting I've hit on the following settings for the 504:
    Colour Temp: Mid
    MPEG NR: Off
    DNR: Low
    CTI: Off
    DRE: Off

    I've found the DNR is very useful for removing a kind of shimmering effect when large solid colours are displayed - e.g. walls.

    The 868 video settings I've left at the default settings for the reason above - I just can't see enough of the screen to determine whether the adjustments are improving the image or not.
    I have changed the output to 1920 x 1080i(*) to see if that makes a difference.

    (*) Had to change the colour setting from -5 to 0 when the resolution was changed from 720x576p, according to DVE.
     

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