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Wireless Streaming ?

Discussion in 'Networking & NAS' started by The Dude, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. The Dude

    The Dude
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    Just while I remember.....

    For all WAP users, particularly if anyone is trying to stream wirelessly, you'll get much better and more consistent throughput if you turn off WEP/WPA.

    If your WAP has 'MAC Address Filtering' or similar in the security configuration (I have yet to encounter one that doesn't) use this instead.

    It's absolutely secure, unlike WEP/WPA... :rolleyes:
    and it doesn't slow down your WLAN, unlike WEP/WPA :eek:

    The only real reason to use WEP over MAC control would be if you have regular, random visitors to your LAN...
    and to get around this, you just keep a spare wireless card to bung in any visiting laptops..

    Just a thought.... I'll post more details if anyone is interested? ;)
     
  2. Monty Burns

    Monty Burns
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    Sorry mate, your giving out "blurry" information ;)

    MAC address filtering is easy to get around. All it takes is someone with a little knowledge and a wifi sniffer. The sniffer sniffs out the un-encrypted packets and then the user can extract the MAC address. This can then be applied to another system (With Windows systems, go to your network card driver and look up Software MAC Address) ... hey presto! They have access to your network.

    WEP actually encrypts the packets whilst they are in transmission. Whilst it is still possible to get through this (with some SERIOUS power and time) its highly unlikely. As they are unable to get through the packets easily, they are also very unlikely to get your MAC address.

    Answer:


    Use MAC Address filtering AND WEP.

    Just a point to note though. Protecting your wifi network is much like protecting your car, all you really do is make it look less attractive than next doors ;)


    If you are experiencing performence issues when using WEP then I would suggest that some older hardware may be in use or outdated firmware.

    *edit* Just to point out how easy MAC address cloning is, my Wi-Fi Mobile Phone can do it (It runs PocketPC)
     
  3. Chris Muriel

    Chris Muriel
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    Indeed true. MAC address cloning is standard procedure for those who use XBOX Live and don't want to pay an extra fee per month to NTL (broadband cable) for its use - NTL charge extra to enable additional MAC addresses onto their network.

    Chris Muriel, Manchester.
     
  4. The Dude

    The Dude
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    as you say mate... anyone with professional knowledge and professional tools isn't going to be seriously hampered by ANY measures other than turning the thing off.

    but then they aren't going to be hacking into home networks anyway, are they... maybe i was being a bit blurry there.... ;)


    My point was, there are plenty of people here trying to stream wirelesly, and 128bit WEP adds a noticeable overhead to performance.
    This is nothing to do with HW... you just can't add 128bit encryption without affecting packet performance, quite simply impossible.

    This can be proven as easily as turning WEP off and back on... ;)


    I run a wireless bridge over a 2.5km link, about 5000 houses inbetween, and I've never been hacked yet....

    Yet I can relatively easily hack into the 14 WEP encrypted Wifi networks i can see from where I am sitting typing this...:devil:

    I Didn't know there such low-end MAC cloning tools available though, I definitely stand corrected on that point at least.. ;)
     
  5. Monty Burns

    Monty Burns
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    This is nothing to do with HW... you just can't add 128bit encryption without affecting packet performance, quite simply impossible.


    Beg to differ. It has EVERYTHING to do with the speed of the encryption chips in your router and how heavy the load is etc. This again is all similar on the PC, which may be running slow due to a heavy load. I currently have upto three of my neigbours (WiFi) accessing my server (which is hardwired into the WAP). All of which use WEP (and MAC), none of which experience any problems with speed even when im streaming a film to my xbox. Btw, im only using 54g.

    This can be proven as easily as turning WEP off and back on... ;)

    Yup on slower chipsets and/or heavy workload hardware you are correct.


    I run a wireless bridge over a 2.5km link, about 5000 houses inbetween, and I've never been hacked yet....

    Fortunate. Probably. There are many factors that will affect this. Just because they can see your network does not mean that have the power to get back to your broadcast point. Maybe its a line of site radio link, something like Tele2 provide, again an obstacle. Maybe you have nobody with any remote interest in your network or anyone elses for that matter. I doubt very much its a WAP as home users know it that is capable of broadcasting over 2.5km through houses. For a starters, would that not require a special license?


    Yet I can relatively easily hack into the 14 WEP encrypted Wifi networks i can see from where I am sitting typing this...:devil:

    You have a PC that can hack 14 WEP encrypted networks at one time, even at only 64bit encryption im sure Intel and AMD would like to buy your technology from you :eek:

    I Didn't know there such low-end MAC cloning tools available though, I definitely stand corrected on that point at least.. ;)
    Yup coz Cloneing is SOOOO much easier to steal and re-use than WEP. No way in the world my lil PDA/Phone could crack wep ... well not for a few years anyway :D


    The simple statement that you gave though saying that MAC address is as secure and WEP is just wrong. It was bad advice im afraid. I know a few of my friends who are happy to leach of neigbours Wifi networks that just MAC address protect. I do call them various abusive names though down the pub, usualy "you tight b'stard, now get me a beer in" or similar. :rotfl:
     
  6. The Dude

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    not all of em at once... that would be impressive even for me..;)


    Funny though, as the BEST WAPs THAT CORPORATE MONEY CAN BUY still suffer from easily measurable slowdown when you enable WEP, and that comes from the manufacturer themselves...

    I'm in full agreement with your overall philosopy on encryption mate, but we'll have to beg to differ on the advantages of WEP over MAC control.

    Everybody uses WEP encryption, most peeps don't even know what a MAC is..
    I know which I'm happier with..

    Your neighbours/friends are obviously all quite talented, are any of them looking for work at the moment? :D

    You're right about my bridge though, I've got very good line of sight obviously... You don't require any special permissions for using domestically available kit, you just need to know how to set it up properly.

    Test: Turn off WEP on your Cisco Aironet 1310 :rotfl:, and have a look at what happens to your TransRetry statistics.. ;) that is where performance suffers.
     
  7. Monty Burns

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    Funny though, as the BEST WAPs THAT CORPORATE MONEY CAN BUY still suffer from easily measurable slowdown when you enable WEP, and that comes from the manufacturer themselves...

    Yup agreed. How can adding complicated maths on top NOT slow it down? It can't, it has too. What I said was if you had a good hardware/firmware soloution it should not be an issue.


    I'm in full agreement with your overall philosopy on encryption mate, but we'll have to beg to differ on the advantages of WEP over MAC control.

    Sadly then were not. If the cracker can't be bothered to sniff a mac address you can always brute force one, 10 digits of hex compared to ... WEP, which cannot be sniffed, needs to be brute forced and is anything up to 128 hex numbers. Now i'm gona opt for the non-sniffable 128 hex option anytime.

    Everybody uses WEP encryption, most peeps don't even know what a MAC is..
    In my experience this only partialy true. As someone who often gets called round to friends to help them with there IT problems (im an IT contractor) I find that its 50/50. Sadly, it's rarely both as it should be.


    Your neighbours/friends are obviously all quite talented, are any of them looking for work at the moment? :D

    Nah ... they just need to get out of there houses more :rotfl: Its my job to know about this stuff, its not for them!!!!! to my mates: Get out you loosers! :rotfl:

    You're right about my bridge though, I've got very good line of sight obviously... You don't require any special permissions for using domestically available kit, you just need to know how to set it up properly.
    Test: Turn off WEP on your Cisco Aironet 1310 :rotfl:, and have a look at what happens to your TransRetry statistics.. ;) that is where performance suffers.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. Setup is the key. Got line of site ... you need a weak arse transmitter to get there.

    I have to say, if going by what you say is true, which i dont think we will ever agree on :) , then my Linksys 54g is teh D4DDY of a Wifi WAP point! (yeah its also Cisco) I've even got it transmitting through two other peoples flats to reach a fourth for one of the client computers and he can stream from my server, all WEP and MAC.
     
  8. The Dude

    The Dude
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    hehehe.. I knew you were one of us from the first post... :thumbsup:
     
  9. The Dude

    The Dude
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    Whereabouts are you Monty? Any good up a ladder?


    If you're anywhere South of Brummingham drop me a PM with your email.. :smashin:
     

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