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Will Wilson Benesch Arcs fit with B&W Nautilus

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by pidge22, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Hi,
    I currently have a B&W Nautilus 805,Htm2 Centre and Cdmsnt rears...I am thinking about changing the front 805's to Wilson Benesch Arcs as it is a better speaker and my 2 Channel Listening and Av is about 50/50.
    However I will not be able to upgrade the rest of my system yet will the WB Arc's fit with my centre and rears.
    My amp/processor is a Pioneer ax10i and so therefore has MCACC which has the Equilisation will this help to match the different speakers?
    Thanks Pidge22
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    No amount of electronic trickery will cover up tonal variations between different makes of speaker. At the sort of money that you are talking about you really must find out for yourself as you may find something a major irritant that others will barely notice
     
  3. recruit

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    Pidge22 - As Ian has pointed out there will be a Tonal mismatch on the fronts but if it would only be a temporary time untill you get the Wilson Centre then i would say if you prefer the sound then it might be worth liveing with for a short while.
    BTW - Have you not listened to a well run in pair of the new 805S's?, as they are superb and really rock with music and films i have not heard a better standmount speaker and they would certainly give some more expensive floorstanders a good run for there money.

    Cheers
    John
     
  4. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Hi Recruit,
    I did consider the 805s but I probably would not be able to stretch to the £1600 price tag.
    When I listened to the WB arcs I was very impressed with them and have managed to locate a pir of used one's at a reasonable price.
    Ideally I would like a pair of 805 Signatures in B'eye red but they do not seem to come up very often at the right price...so I will have to settle for the WB Arc's...just concerned about this tonal difference as it may be a while before I get the centre.
    Pidge22
     
  5. recruit

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    There will definitly be a tonal mismatch but by how much i would not know and everyone hears these slight or big differences differently so you woud have to try them and see how well they work, i don't know if the Pioneers EQ will help as they use different drivers to the B&W's.

    It's one of these situations :confused: but it might be worth the risk if it gives you the sound you are looking for. :)

    Good Luck

    Regards
    John
     
  6. Daneel

    Daneel
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    The Pioneer's EQ will help a lot. It's far from perfect but it's why I can cope with running a B&W centre with my JM Lab fronts.
     
  7. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Hi Daneel,
    when you say its far from perfect where do you notice the biggest differences.?
    Pidge22
     
  8. pidge22

    pidge22
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    After thinking this through again and taking into condideration Recruits comments I think I will give the Arc's a miss though they are a probable improvement on the 805... I don't want to spoil the balanced setup I have at the moment even if it means missing out on an improvement in 2 channel.
    Anyone know of a B&W dealer who will do something on the 805s or if there are any reasonably priced Xdemo or Used Signature's about preferably Red B'Eye but would consider Grey Tigers Eye about?
    Pidge22
     
  9. Daneel

    Daneel
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    Every now and then there is a scene where there isn't much going on and the focus is on a sound that moves from the centre to a front. At that point it becomes clear that the front soundstage is not seemless. The one scene that really stood out for me was in one of the LOTR films where one of the minions breaths heavily and the sound moves as desribed above.

    The vast majority of the time though, it's fine.
     
  10. robfitzp

    robfitzp
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    Pidge

    Having just gone from N804/HTM1 to WB Arc/Centre I would agree with the comments above about them being very different speakers tonally.

    I would also say they are a lot better in two channel than the nautilus, more involving and able to start/stop more quickly. I have not heard the signatures or the new 800 series.

    WB Centres do come up used every now and again. I don't think the WB centre is quite as good overall as the HTM1 - clarity is better but it does not really have the same sense of scale - but there is not much in it.

    For music I don't think there is any comparison and personally I would live with a mismatch for cinema for the gains elsewhere. Just my opinion - you need to weigh up the relative importance of the two for you.

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  11. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Rob,
    thanks for your comments its a real dilemnia....I like the B&W setup I have but since hearing the Arc's was very impressed with them.
    The other problem I have is the Arc's I had a chance of buying were Silver and Black and my wife likes the look of the matching Nautilus in dark Cherry Red...
    I think for the moment I will have to stick with the Nautilus...
     
  12. Bobrinsky

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    Pidge,

    I have many of the same components as you.... well, The Pioneer AX10i processor and slightly better Pioneer DV 868Avi player, Van Den Hul and Supra interconnects, etc. My speakers, however, are totally different, in every sense, and the MCACC function of the Pioneer amp was one of the things that first attracted me to it. I think the people warning you about tonal differences are exagerating a bit or, at the very least, talking from a standpoint of theory rather than experience.

    When I was about to go surround, 18 months ago, I had two floorstanding Mission speakers that were the company's flagship speakers from about 12 years ago. I still love the sound of them, so I simply added three wall-mounted Vienna Acoustics speakers to take care of the centre and rears. I got them from a shop in Vienna which had a special relationship with the company so, even though they were specially tuned SE versions, and couriered to the UK, they still cost me less than they would here.

    I wish I had the space and money to have four identical floorstanders around the listening area, but what I ended up with was two different kinds of speaker, by two different makes, at different heights in a pentagonal living room. Ouch! The Pioneer's MCACC system has, however, worked absolute wonders. My only complaint is that the sweet spot it creates is quite dramatically specific - anywhere on my couch, but nowhere else. But after hearing what it has done for the sound, I will never again obsess about speaker matching.

    I used this set-up for the first 12 months to listen to SACD and DVD-A discs, then added a projector - connected with a Supra HDMi lead - and screen, and, well, it has been joy unconfined round here for a while. I've always been a purist about sound going straight from source to speaker, as untampered-with as possible, but have discovered the special concert settings pre-programmed by Air studios. When playing music in surround, I'm going through six analogue linterconnects but, for DVD, I've got an IXOS optical cable and can access the wild presets on offer. When playing concert DVDs, the 5.1 rock setting does an amazing impression of the acoustics of the Albert Hall.
     
  13. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Ten year ago I had a pair of Revolver floorstanders and I bought a B&W centre speaker to accompany them but found the missmatch difficult to live with so had to get rid of the centre.

    I have no idea what tricks can be played with a Pioneer MCACC system but you seem to be implying that it can turn swine into pearls.
     
  14. robfitzp

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    The AX10 setup can try to match the surround speakers to the front pair. It is obviously not as good as buying matching speakers but it does work up to a point. As an interim measure I would live with it.

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  15. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    I'd be more worried about the Arc's showing the Pioneer up as lacking in the stereo replay department. ;)
     
  16. robfitzp

    robfitzp
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    Nobber

    The preamp section of the AX10 is not great for two channel but I think Pidge mentioned he has got a separate preamp for this. :thumbsup:

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  17. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    That's a preamp? Thought it was some medical problem. :eek:

    Just kidding. I've never heard of that one, but it sounds fancy! :D

    Is the poweramp section of the AX10 up to the job quality and power-wise?
     
  18. alexs2

    alexs2
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    I'd auditioned both the ARCs and the 805's when I was changing a lot of my system,and ended up buying the 805s....this isn't a suggestion that you should reconsider the decision re the 805s,but they do have a quite different sound character,and whilst both are very good speakers at the price,as others here have said,masking those tonal differences will not be an easy thing.

    On the plus side,driving the ARC's will be a lot easier than a set of 805s,which in my experience,easily brought a 100x5 TAG amp to it's knees......as everyone else has said,try before you buy,and at home,with your own system and room.
     
  19. robfitzp

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    LOL... I am sure there is a cream for it....

    AX10 power amp section is not bad - only just sold mine. It drove a pair of N804 and a HTM1 with no real problems and in terms of quality it certainly up there with the rotel multichannel amps if not as good as the Primare A30.1 I used to have for stereo.

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  20. robfitzp

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    Re what Alexs2 says, I should have stated in my preference for the Arcs above what I have done in other threads on Nautilus/WB, that the 804s sounded great on the end of a Krell FBP300 in a big room when I demoed them and nowhere near as good in more normal surroundings with my more mundane kit.

    AX10 will happily drive them unless you have fields around you and like to rock out.....

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  21. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Some real interesting feedback thanks very much....with regard to the comment about the 2 channel capabilities of the ax10i I agree with them..putting a Ming Da Preamp between my Njoe Tjoub Cdp and the Ax10i power amp section has made the world of difference to 2 channel reproduction...with regard to the Arc''s I am going to stick with the 805's and Htm1 for the moment I am worried that the tonal balance I take for granted at the moment will be lost...I dont want to pay more for the Arcs and find "I have robbed Peter to pay Paul"!!
     
  22. robfitzp

    robfitzp
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    Paul

    If you go for a HTM1 and you want to improve 2 channel further with an external power amp you can use one of the unused front amp channels to biamp the centre. I did this when I bought my Chord amp and there was a clear improvement in the handling of the HTM1 through biamping.

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  23. alexs2

    alexs2
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    I'd definitely agree with those comments,as would most of the reviews of Nautilus speakers I've ever seen....very demanding load,and requires lots of power to drive adequately.
     
  24. pidge22

    pidge22
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    Hi Rob,
    I think the Power amp option and biamping the centre is definitely of serious consideration... my ony concern would be a difference in gain of a 2 channel power amp for the Fronts aginst the Power amp of the ax10i...
    Would the Ax10i Eq put this right....
    I would feed the Preout from the ax10i through the Aux on the Ming Da for av so there would not be a problem here.
    Paul
     
  25. Oversleep

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    Hi there...pidge22

    I have been through your tread and would like to find out that you end up with...

    what speakers and what amp...
     
  26. recruit

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    This thread is over 2 years old, i would look in his sig for his current kit list !
     
  27. Oversleep

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    yeah... and he have no longer got any of these stuff.... guest this is way out of date then...

    I am sort of want to find out same thing he wanted long time ago...

    Apologies for resurrect this
     

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