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Will this many amps and AV Receiver compromise the overall sound quality?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Steve237, Mar 21, 2005.

  1. Steve237

    Steve237
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    Hi all,

    I'm hoping some users on here might be able to give me their opinion on adding another amp to my system and whether I'm doing the right thing:

    I currently have a DJ set-up at home consisting of 2 x CD decks feeding into a mixer, which feeds into a NAD C372 (2 x 150W) integrated amp. This powers 2 x 150W floor standing speakers, and because I'm about to move to a detatched house ( :thumbsup: ), I decided to buy another pair of 150W speakers and another amp (I bought a NAD C272 (2 x 150W) Power amp off eBay last week).

    I haven't even linked all this up yet because my new speakers haven't arrived, but I'm already thinking about adding a 5.1 amp to all of this so that A) I can use a subwoofer, and B) I can use the whole thing for surround sound and buy a projector in the future.

    I know someone who is selling their NAD T 742 5.1 amplifier (5 x 50W) and seeing as it'll all match nicely with the other NAD stuff I've got, I am thinking of buying it...

    Do you think this will work well together? Will I be able to link them all up? If so, will the sound quality be spoilt because of all the processing between amplifiers and the mixer?

    I'd love any advice at all, thanks in advance.


    In case someone wants to check, here's the links to the amps I've got:

    C 272 - http://www.nadelectronics.com/hifi_amplifiers/C272_framset.htm
    C 372 - http://www.nadelectronics.com/hifi_amplifiers/C372_framset.htm

    And the AV Receiver I'm thinking of getting:

    T 742 - http://www.nadelectronics.com/av_receivers/T742_framset.htm
     
  2. Steve237

    Steve237
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    NB - I just read that "The new T743 is a T742 but it adds two component video inputs for switching progressive scan and/or HDTV sources."

    Does anyone know exactly what this means?

    I'm going to be sending Sky TV through a projector.

    Thanks again for any assistance.
     
  3. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    You will notice a decrease in sound quality using the AV amp - in as far as the quality of your vinyl may be pants too :D - your stereo amps are good ones and have plenty of power. The AV amp has less and could damage your speakers if you crank them up. And what good DJ doesn't eh? ;) All that extra processing gubbins doesn't help stereo sound either.

    I'd stick with your own amps. You can easily connect a sub too - use a run of speaker cable from one set of NAD amp speaker outputs to the high-level input on the sub. Tweak the sub's gain. Job done.

    Progressive scan switching works by the amp taking various component progressive inputs and allowing you to run one output lead to the projector. Less leads = :)

    BUT Sky doesn't output progressive - it outputs RGB via Scart or S-Vid. It's a no-show through the 742. :thumbsdow
     
  4. Steve237

    Steve237
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    Thanks for the reply.

    So even if the AV amp is connected to the more powerful amps, it could still damage my speakers?


    Sounds like a plan, but wouldn't that mean I'd have to use one of the 150W amps just for the subwoofer, and have 4 x 150W speakers all wired through the other amp? The 4 speakers definitely need more output than what just one of the amplifiers can provide...
     
  5. SillySausage

    SillySausage
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    If I was you I'd ditch the multiple amp idea.

    All you will get is at best a loud mess of a sound, with little or no soundstage etc.

    Four speakers will sound pants imho. Best to use one pair and a nice sub. If you use the second pair of speakers as rears in an av setup this is different, but standard stereo is a no brainer.

    Has the av amp got outputs for power amps to drive the main speakers? If so, use that and buy some power amps to drive the main fronts.

    With regards to a sub, how about a powered sub. That way, you take no amplifier power to run it.

    It depends what your priorities are. If it is hi-fi, then keep one of the Nad stereo amps to drive one set of f's speakers and buy an active sub.

    Or sell the lot, buy a hugely powerfull av amp, and an active sub.. :D

    Hope this helps

    Adam.
     
  6. Steve237

    Steve237
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    Well...

    The reason I bought an extra amp and pair of speakers is for parties. When it's just me spinning at home, I'll just have one set of speakers going as monitors next to the decks, but when I have a room full of people, I can flick on the floor standers at the other end of the room - I don't think perfect stereo sound is that important on a dancefloor - but of course for personal listening, it is.

    The AV amp idea has only just popped into my head when I realised that this room in the new house we're buying will be perfect for a projecter screen. So while music is the main use for the equipment, it'd be nice to be able to use it for movies too.

    So to summarise; I will be using my equipment mainly for music (2 x large bookshelfs speakers on stands for monitoring whilst DJing + floor standers for extra volume occasionally when more volume is needed). I would like to add a sub. I need to find a way of being able to use all this for 5.1 sound. Is adding an AV receiver not the best way to do this?
     
  7. Steve237

    Steve237
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    PS - Any recommendations for powered subs? And what do they connect to? Do they still connect to the amplifier or directly to the source of music?
     
  8. SillySausage

    SillySausage
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    phew.... quite a lot to sort out.... ;)

    Maybe a different line to take.

    For general sounds and listening alone - The Nad amp and 1 pair of speakers (With possibly a sub - The sub will connect to the Nad amp and not pose any problems to it. Have a look in the subwoofer section on here for advice)

    For av duties, find a Yamaha DSP E800. I have one and it is basically a processor with in built amps for centre and rear speakers. You connect this up to the Nad amp driving your front speakers and switch it in and out when wanting to watch films etc. You can also connect the sub to it too. (If the sub has high and low inputs)

    You could use the other Nad amp to power the rear speakers, with inputs coming to it from the mixer for your parties, or using another input connected to the rear out on the Yamaha E800 for rear speaker duties during movies.

    Unfortuanetly this set up will be a bit of a pain to set up when switching from movies to music to parties, but it will work.

    There are a number of other oppertunities to get it all working as you want, but they are all dependant on what budget you have.

    Adam.
     
  9. SillySausage

    SillySausage
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    The active (Powered) sub woofer connects to the amplifier. Using either low level outputs from a 'sub out' on a processor / av amp, or high level inputs from a standard stereo amp. This way it connect to the speaker outputs on the amp. As it is only recieving a signal and amplifying it internally, connect it up to the speaker terminals does not put any load to speak of on the main amp.

    As for reccomendations, it depends what you have to spend, how big the room is, how loud you want it... etc etc
     
  10. Steve237

    Steve237
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    Damn, Adam, now you've given me so much more to think about - I wish it were more straight forward!

    I've already bought the second NAD amp (the power amp) and second set of speakers, but as for remaining budget, I don't plan to do this for the next few weeks as we haven't even moved into the new house yet. I'd got at the back of my mind around a grand to get a projector, screen and av receiver. I could spend a bit more (an extra few hundred on the mortgage won't hurt ;) )

    Is there not a simple way of doing this where I could just simply switch on the av amp when watching a movie/TV on the projector? And just disconnect the rear speakers when not needed?

    I have just looked up the Yamaha DSP E800 on the net; it looks good. But do I need an av receiver with a built in amp if I've already got 2 x Nad amps with such a high output?

    I am probably missing the point - :lease: be patient with me, I'm not as dumb as I might sound! Thanks for taking the time to post - it's appreciated.
     
  11. SillySausage

    SillySausage
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    Hello Steve, (I presume lol)

    I've just had a closer look at the 2 Nad amps you have, and very nice they are :)

    If the can be wired so that the main integrated amp can drive the main speakers, with the power amp running the second pair - but using the pre-amp in the integrated, then you have solved the 4 speakers for the partying. This way, both sets of speakers will alter volume in relation to each other and the Integrateds volume control.

    Now, adding a AV Reciever should be quite easy, as the input and output of it can be looped into the integrated. This way you can use the Nad Integrated to drive the front speakers, and the AV to drive the centre. This could be classed as a waste as the av amp would have amps not being used, however unless you spend all of your budget on an av amp it won't have anything like the sound quality of the integrated.

    A sub can easily be connected, and the rear output from the av amp could be connected to the power amp as I think it has two switchable inputs - fixed and variable.

    Unfortuanetly what you are trying to do is quite easy on paper, but it isn't the easiest of things to explain... doh.

    I think a trip to a reputable dealer may be in order to work out exactly what you need.

    There are a lot of more knowledgable than I people on here, so hopefully some of them may look at this thread and comment.

    By the way, out of interest what are the speakers you have bought, and how big is your listening room?

    Adam.
     
  12. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Steve237

    Forget about adding an AV Receiver to your system - go instead for an AV Pre amplifier (see http://www.nadelectronics.com/ht_amplifiers/T163_framset.htm) .

    You can use the AV Preamplifier with your Stereo Integrated and Stereo Power Amp to drive your four loudspeakers in DJ, Party and (with an additional Amp/Speaker for Centre plus Active Sub) for 5:1; if you go with the NAD T163 you can even add additional amp/speaker channels and go for 7:1.

    If the NAD T163 is out-with your budget look around for a second hand or discounted AV Preamplifier.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  13. Steve237

    Steve237
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    Adam, Joe, thanks for the replies.

    Joe - The T163 is a good option, but it's a little more than I wanted to spend on an additional AV amp/receiver, at almost £900. I'll keep my eyes open for something similar, cheers.

    Adam - You might laugh, but I've done a simple drawing of the room layout! The dimensions are 4.65m (15'3") x 3.80m (12'5")

    http://premium1.uploadit.org/funk100//Plan.doc

    The floor standing speakers which I've had for a couple of years are Mordaunt Short Avant 906's (£350) - http://www.mordauntshort.com/products/avant906.html

    The bookshelfs which I'm planning to have on stands by the decks (at ear level for mixing) are Mordaunt Short Avant 912's (£199) - http://www.mordauntshort.com/products/912.html

    I have to admit, although the 906 floor standers are great, I didn't listen to that many at the time, and bought them long before I got into mixing house music, so they probably aren't the most suitable speakers for my intended purpose. I ordered the 912's (which will be arriving this week) because I needed something at ear level by the decks and mixer and thought they would compliment the 906's (same make, model, wattage) and once I've got s subwoofer, give me what I needed to create a loud and bassy music room.

    I am now wondering whether I have rushed into this and am considering sending the 912's back when they arrive, selling the 906's on eBay, and buying some completely new speakers to compliment the NAD amps - perhaps with just 2 speakers and an sub.

    But the important thing to remember is that I need speakers by the dj stuff so I can do a tight mix - and I would imagine that all the best top-end speakers are floor standing which would be far too low down for monitoring.

    Maybe my original idea is best after all? I've just had 2 sexy Adam Hall stands arrive from the postie (adjustable in height from 800mm to 2000mm, so can be used for both movies and DJing), and if I stuck with the Mordaunt Short stuff, I could add this monster to it: http://www.mordauntshort.com/products/309.html (And it got 5 stars in What Hi-Fi http://www.mordauntshort.com/pdf_review/MS 309.pdf)
     
  14. SillySausage

    SillySausage
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    I'm at work at the mo, so will respond in detail tonight ;)

    In a room of that size, I'd consider some small monitors all round and a nice sub.

    Adam.
     
  15. Steve237

    Steve237
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    I'll look forward to the detailed reply :smashin:
     
  16. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    You could get an av reciever, to act as a processor and also a video hub for all your sources. For parties you can have just 5 channel stereo, which will send the music around the room. A more expensive pre-amp/processor would give better performance bt would be more expensive. If you got a nad av amp then you could bi-amp your speakers if you wanted using your stereo amps to power the bass frequencies and the av amp to do the higher/tweeter frequencies.
    For stereo listening the nad/s stereo amp alone would be best together i.e. bi-amp your fronts with your 372 and 272, but this would remove the use of rear speaker through this, for best quality you would want to connect your audio source strait to the 372 as the AV amp/reciever would probably have a poor pre-amp in comparision.


    For simplicity and having an av system incorperating your current amps i think the following would work alothough not sound the absolute best with stereo, also no bi amping involved for simplicity.

    video/audio sources -> AV/Reciever (i.e. nad 743) -> 1 x 372, 1 or 2x 272* -> speakers

    *as you'll need 2x272 to get 5.1/6.1 although the rears could be powered by the revciever meaning you only need your existing one to power the centre.

    The av amp would be the control centre for video and audio, although you could still plug your stero only audio source into the c372, which would control the main front speakers. It is slightly more complicated then sending everthing through the receiver but not by much.

    The above setup would mean that you would have to turn on all the amps when you turned the reciever on, but there is a power block which detects when the 'main' unit is turned on and then gives power to all the other plugs, which would elievate that problem.
     

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