Question Will Onkyo A9130 have the juice to power B&W606

Valaskjalf

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Hi there,

I'm looking to move away from my current non-existent sound setup (PC connected to TV and making use of its poor speakers) and expanding into my first budget Bookshelf Speakers / Integrated Amp setup. My lounge is relatively small I sit about 2m away from the TV and the speakers will similarly be 2m apart.

I went to one of our local vendors and had a listen to the B&W 606 speakers which has the clarity and instrumental separation I'm looking for - I mostly listen to rock and metal so a balanced sound without any frills is what I'm interested in from the speakers. I'm got them at a 30% discount, but the budget I had in mind for the Amp is slightly out of whack as the B&Ws still are quite expensive (was initially looking at the Klipsch R41M) - the question now is more to get the Amp with the necessary inputs and power at a strict budged. As I mentioned I'm running everything from my PC , so will then make use of a Toslink to hook-up to the amp and that narrows the field to an amp with digital inputs.

With the price range I'm looking at (and the limited availability we have here in South Africa) I was drawn to the Onkyo A-9130. It has the digital IN I need from my TV (As opposed to buying a separate DAC) which is still rare to find over here in this price range.

Long story short....I haven't seen many reviews of the A-9130 even though I've heard very good things about the A-9010/9110. I'm also not sure whether their 60W into 4Ω will be able to drive the suggested 30W - 120W into 8Ω (as per 606 spec sheet). Do any of you have experience with the A-9130? Or can perhaps guide me into whether this amp will combo sufficiently with the speakers?

Any help very much appreciated!
Thanks
CJ
 
I haven't got experience of either the speakers or the amp but I'd estimate the Onkyo to output around 45W/channel RMS into 8 Ohms which should be adequate to drive the average efficiency (88dB/W, 8 Ohm) B&W speakers, especially in a small room where you sit 2m away. The issue here may be more to do with a slight quality mismatch, but for all I know the Onkyo could be an exceptional amp and quality isn't always proportional to cost).

You're right to suggest that this amp may not match the B&W 606 for quality so you could consider a higher-quality pre-owned amp - assuming anything suitable comes on the local market.

In a similar price range to the Onkyo (in the UK anyway), the Marantz PM6006 and the Yamaha A-S501 would be the more obvious choices - though that's not to say they're any better.
 
I would be reluctant to pair that amp with the 606. They have a relatively easy to drive sensitivity in 88dB but they can dip to 3.7 ohms and although that is not particularly low it will still need a good power supply to maintain that drop. The Onkyo will more than likely output 40 watts into 8 ohms although it's interesting that Onkyo hasn't published those figures. I would be looking for a true 60 watts into 8 ohms to drive them.
 
Thanks for the response guys. I see that the Yamaha AS-301 is going for a pretty decent price locally as well and that it's also listed as 60W into 8ohms. Is there a vast difference between that and the AS-501?
 
For the B&W .. i'd probably be more inclined to suggest going to demo them with rotel or even cambridge audio (cxa80) to get the best out them.

Edit since my last post.. another good match for the 606 is the Marantz PM 8006.

Rotel and Marantz should be readily available to you where you are located... the cambridge i think... may be alot harder to find although there are numerous cambridge audio deals in South Africa where you are.
 
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Thanks for the response guys. I see that the Yamaha AS-301 is going for a pretty decent price locally as well and that it's also listed as 60W into 8ohms. Is there a vast difference between that and the AS-501?
Apart from the extra power not a lot really. THD figures are the same at 0.019. It seems just like an increase in power. Never a bad thing to have extra headroom but the additional power will not really affect in your room.
 
The A-S301 and 501 are the same except for the amp/power-supply sections and weight. The manual that came with my A-S501 lists from the 301 to 701 models, they all have the same size case, and a few minor different features for the 701.
 
Great thank you very much. I will definitely try to organise a demo for the A-S301 at the store and check to see how well they pair with the B&W606's
 
If you can, maybe stretch the budget to get the A-S501. Unless you plan on buying a much larger system down the road, the 501's 85RMS-8ohm or 100RMS-4ohm/ch will drive all but the most inefficient speakers. Not a Macintosh, but very good value for the money. And if you eventually get a medium-size listening room, adding a powered subwoofer will do the heavy lifting below the transition frequency, no need to upgrade the amp/speakers. A (future) penny saved...

I have Q Acoustics 3020's and a HSU sub (crossover 80Hz) and the 501 has volume to spare, easily, cleanly getting to reference levels. My room is about 12x19x8 foot.
 
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I will definitely try to have a demo of the A-S501's as well, and like you said, future-proofing with an amp that has a bit more power is probably the best way to go.

Just another question on the B&W606 speakers and forgive me for not knowing all that much, but is it normal for relatively "cheap" and small speakers like that to require so much power to be run properly? I investigated a bit and there are numerous Cambridge or Merantz amps which, like the Onkyo A-9130 will be completely underpowered for these speakers.

Conversely, with the Onkyo rated at 30W in 8 Ohm -they appear to be massively underpowered as well so if they can't handle bookshelf speakers that require a little bit more, aren't you severely limited with the types of speakers you can hook them up with?

Thanks again.
 
"Matching" problems tend to occur at the extremes of the power ranges. Small amps (arbitrarily for example, less than 40RMS/ch/8ohm) and very large amps (bigger than 100RMS/ch/8ohm) require more attention to what speakers are chosen. In the mid-range between these extremes, most mid-power/efficiency speakers do well as long as the chosen amp/speaker ratings are not either at the top or bottom of the range. As in, don't put 40w rated speakers on a 100w/ch amp or vice versa.

Be sure the amp/speaker power ratings are the same, for example, both should be rated RMS(preferred) or peak (or?). And be aware, "peak" power can mean many things whereas RMS is a much tighter standard.
 
is it normal for relatively "cheap" and small speakers like that to require so much power to be run properly?

It's not uncommon because small speakers with small mid/bass drive units tend to be less efficient than bigger speakers with larger bass/mid drive units. As always, there are exceptions so it's not a hard and fast rule. By the way, I wouldn't call the B&W 606 a budget speaker - pricewise, I consider it a mid-range product. And they're not that small either (though size is relative, of course) or inefficient (about average, I'd suggest).

Conversely, with the Onkyo rated at 30W in 8 Ohm

As Gibbsy pointed out in post#3, Onkyo don't supply specs for power output into 8 Ohms but best guess is in the 40 to 45W range. Whilst that's not a high output, it's not shabby for a budget amp (as you say, plenty of other budget amps have a similar output).

This whole subject of amp power output vs. speaker power rating (or power range) is not as cut and dried as you may think. There are many factors that determine whether an amplifier is a poor, adequate or good match for a particular speaker. Power output is but one factor. Room size, room construction, room furnishings, listening volume and music genre all play a part. Some would add the need to match sonic characteristics too.

Talking of amplifier power output...
Some amps with, say, a 30W RMS into 8 Ohms output can actually play louder, into the same speaker, than an amp that outputs, say, 60W RMS into 8 Ohms because it's better designed and has a superior power supply. Also, a speaker can be an exacting load - it is rarely a simple resistance - and some amps are better at driving difficult speaker loads than others. An amp spec that states power output into 8 Ohms won't tell you how well that amp will drive difficult speaker loads.

Conversely, with the Onkyo rated at 30W in 8 Ohm -they appear to be massively underpowered as well so if they can't handle bookshelf speakers that require a little bit more, aren't you severely limited with the types of speakers you can hook them up with?

I'm sure there are many satisfied owners of budget, low efficiency speakers that are being driven by amps of 30W or less. And don't forget, B&W themselves recommend amps in the range 30W to 120W for the 606. In most instances, a low-ish powered amp will sound fine. However, it just wouldn't be wise to use a low-ish powered amp to play, for example, D&B at very high volume in a large room because the amp might 'clip' and possibly cause damage to the tweeters. So to play safe, many forum members would suggest amps of higher power output as a better (and safer) match to the B&W 606..
 
It's not uncommon because small speakers with small mid/bass drive units tend to be less efficient than bigger speakers with larger bass/mid drive units. As always, there are exceptions so it's not a hard and fast rule. By the way, I wouldn't call the B&W 606 a budget speaker - pricewise, I consider it a mid-range product. And they're not that small either (though size is relative, of course) or inefficient (about average, I'd suggest).



As Gibbsy pointed out in post#3, Onkyo don't supply specs for power output into 8 Ohms but best guess is in the 40 to 45W range. Whilst that's not a high output, it's not shabby for a budget amp (as you say, plenty of other budget amps have a similar output).

This whole subject of amp power output vs. speaker power rating (or power range) is not as cut and dried as you may think. There are many factors that determine whether an amplifier is a poor, adequate or good match for a particular speaker. Power output is but one factor. Room size, room construction, room furnishings, listening volume and music genre all play a part. Some would add the need to match sonic characteristics too.

Talking of amplifier power output...
Some amps with, say, a 30W RMS into 8 Ohms output can actually play louder, into the same speaker, than an amp that outputs, say, 60W RMS into 8 Ohms because it's better designed and has a superior power supply. Also, a speaker can be an exacting load - it is rarely a simple resistance - and some amps are better at driving difficult speaker loads than others. An amp spec that states power output into 8 Ohms won't tell you how well that amp will drive difficult speaker loads.



I'm sure there are many satisfied owners of budget, low efficiency speakers that are being driven by amps of 30W or less. And don't forget, B&W themselves recommend amps in the range 30W to 120W for the 606. In most instances, a low-ish powered amp will sound fine. However, it just wouldn't be wise to use a low-ish powered amp to play, for example, D&B at very high volume in a large room because the amp might 'clip' and possibly cause damage to the tweeters. So to play safe, many forum members would suggest amps of higher power output as a better (and safer) match to the B&W 606..

Thank you, that's super explanation.
 
I have the 9130 and BW 683 (which is much bigger than the 606) and I can report the 9130 doesn't break a sweat to drive the 683 to a loud and tall sound stage at half volume dial. Another proof that the watt figure doesn't really mean much. many car stereos rate themselves 1200w.
 
I have the 9130 and BW 683 (which is much bigger than the 606) and I can report the 9130 doesn't break a sweat to drive the 683 to a loud and tall sound stage at half volume dial. Another proof that the watt figure doesn't really mean much. many car stereos rate themselves 1200w.
Conversely, I had a Marantz PM6005 when i got my B&W 685 s2's. It was ok (It had been great with my previous Q Acoustic 2020i), but lacking. The difference when I upgraded amps and doubled the power was immediately apparent. Everything seemed to become sort of easier, and it sounded much better at low volume.
 

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