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Will digital reception improve on 'changeover'?

kevtom

Standard Member
I live in the Tyne Tees reception area for TV. The analogue signal is not due to be turned off until next year. I do not have an outdoor aerial, but get perfect analogue signal from individual indoor aerials with an electrical 'signal boosters'.
However, I am unable to receive any digital signal whatsoever through my digital TV or separate tuners/decoders.
I do have a Virgin Box attached to my main TV, and am looking to get a video sender to transfer the signal to the bedroom TV, but of course can only watch the same channel as the main TV.
I have heard that the powers that be are intending to increase the gain on the digital singal upon changeover. Does anyone know if that is true, and if so, can anyone say whether I will then be able to receive a digital signal through the indoor aerials to the additional TV's in kitchen, backroom etc, that my family are able to enjoy now through the analogue signal.
also, any suggestions as to how to improve reception would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Kevtom
 

mike7

Distinguished Member
It is true that, roughly speaking, the power of Digital transmissions will increase 10 fold when analogue is switched off. Whether or not you will pick up an adequate signal throughout the house with indoor aerials is a debatable point. It depends how close you are to the transmitter, whether the rooms are on the transmitter facing side etc. Bear in mind that analogue signals will still get through and produce a picture, of sorts, when the level of signal is poor whereas a poorly received digital signal will give a blank screen or pixel break-up.

With your current situation there is no way to improve your reception except with a properly installed outside aerial, or possible a loft one.
 

kevtom

Standard Member
Thanx for the in formation Mike.
Lets hope that come changeover & they increase the gain 10 fold, I am able to receive an adequate signal through the boosted indoor aerials. I do already have an aerial installed in the attic which only runs down to the lounge where we have The Virgin media box, but for some reason the signal is useless. I didn't want to go to the expense of having a sophisticated outside aerial fitted and the technical difficulties of feeding every room in the house, when I already have cable TV installed. I will wait to see how the increase of signal on changeover pans out, and maybe consider an additional Virgin box and video transmitter for additional TV's. Thanx for your help. Regards. Kevtom.
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
Ofcom have yet to publish the Switchover documentation for the Tyne Tees area (or Northern Ireland, either)... That will contain the information on powers that is needed. http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/guidance/tech-guidance/dsodetails/

There are three main transmitters - Chatton, Pontop Pike and Bilsdale plus one high power relay Fenham currently. For analogue there are around 41 small relay transmitters of one of the mains - none of which get digital until switchover.

You could be watching one of those analogue-only relays? If so, it may all 'come good' at DSO and the set top aerials may well work.

Check your predictions for digital via the trade view of Digital UK - Postcode checker
 

kevtom

Standard Member
Thanks for the information Mr Rodders.
I live near Harrogate in North Yorks.
I did try the 'postcode checker' on the trade site, and it said I was likely to get my signal from the Bilsdale transmitter, so it may be that I get my current analogue signal from one of the smaller relay transmitters, as the analogue signal is near perfect.
Let's hope I get a digital signal upon changeover.
Regards,
Kevtom
Ofcom have yet to publish the Switchover documentation for the Tyne Tees area (or Northern Ireland, either)... That will contain the information on powers that is needed. Ofcom | Digital Switchover Transmitter Details
There are three main transmitters - Chatton, Pontop Pike and Bilsdale plus one high power relay Fenham currently. For analogue there are around 41 small relay transmitters of one of the mains - none of which get digital until switchover.

You could be watching one of those analogue-only relays? If so, it may all 'come good' at DSO and the set top aerials may well work.

Check your predictions for digital via the trade view of Digital UK - Postcode checker
 

gwladok5

Established Member
For some months prior to the digital switch at the Wrekin transmitter, I was registering 2 lights (60+ dB) with my Labgear DVB-T Finder

After the switchover to digital I'm getting the same signal strength.

Am I to assume from this that the "terrestrial" signal power output was the same as the new digital output?
 

kevtom

Standard Member
Hi, Am not really to sure to answer your question as I have no means of measuring the strength of the signal output of either the digital or analogue signal. All I can tell you is that I have a near perfect analogue signal through the indoor 'boosted' aerials, but absolutely no digital reception on any TV whatsoever. The digital switchover is not due to take place in my Tyne Tees area until next year. Any further observations? Thanx. Kevtom


For some months prior to the digital switch at the Wrekin transmitter, I was registering 2 lights (60+ dB) with my Labgear DVB-T Finder

After the switchover to digital I'm getting the same signal strength.

Am I to assume from this that the "terrestrial" signal power output was the same as the new digital output?
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
If the trade view gives Bilsdale as the most likely analogue (top list) and digital (lower list with coloured squares) then you are most likely watching Bilsdale and NOT one of the relays. {Especially near Harrogate as there are none close by, although many thereabouts will be using Emley Moor (Yorkshire ITV)}.

Bilsdale is 500kW analogue erp, and requires a group A aerial. The digital channels are also mostly in group A, at present, but all are 6kW or less so will be much more difficult to receive well.

The Wrekin was 100kW erp for analogue (measured as the peak vision carrier level). Now it is 20kW erp for the PSB and 10kW erp for the COMmercial muxes. {pre dso it was 2kW and 1kW}

1/5 to 1/10 of the analogue power is a typical post DSO level for DTT (as is 10x the pre-DSO digital power) ... it provides the equivalent coverage in most cases {although there are exceptions}.

We will have to wait to see the Final plan for Bilsdale, but it is probable that the original 81 site plan may well apply: 100kW for the 3 PSB muxes in group A and 50kW for the 3 COMs above group A requiring a Wideband (or, alternatively, a group K aerial) to receive all 6 muxes.

You can use page 284 of teletext/ceefax to assess if you're likely to get satisfactory DTT post DSO (for the PSBs).
 

kevtom

Standard Member
Thanks again Mr Rodders. I cant get a Yorkshire analogue signal at all from Emily moor. I am still none the wiser as to whether I am likely to receive a digital signal though my indoor aerials upon changeover, as your highly 'technical speak' was just too much for my meagre brain. I will just have to wait and see if I can receive digital on changeover. If not, I will have to consider another Virgin Box and video senders! Thanks.
Kevtom



If the trade view gives Bilsdale as the most likely analogue (top list) and digital (lower list with coloured squares) then you are most likely watching Bilsdale and NOT one of the relays. {Especially near Harrogate as there are none close by, although many thereabouts will be using Emley Moor (Yorkshire ITV)}.

Bilsdale is 500kW analogue erp, and requires a group A aerial. The digital channels are also mostly in group A, at present, but all are 6kW or less so will be much more difficult to receive well.

The Wrekin was 100kW erp for analogue (measured as the peak vision carrier level). Now it is 20kW erp for the PSB and 10kW erp for the COMmercial muxes. {pre dso it was 2kW and 1kW}

1/5 to 1/10 of the analogue power is a typical post DSO level for DTT (as is 10x the pre-DSO digital power) ... it provides the equivalent coverage in most cases {although there are exceptions}.

We will have to wait to see the Final plan for Bilsdale, but it is probable that the original 81 site plan may well apply: 100kW for the 3 PSB muxes in group A and 50kW for the 3 COMs above group A requiring a Wideband (or, alternatively, a group K aerial) to receive all 6 muxes.

You can use page 284 of teletext/ceefax to assess if you're likely to get satisfactory DTT post DSO (for the PSBs).
 

kevtom

Standard Member
I forgot to add that I did the 'Test' on page 284 onf teletext and got a page of unbroken white blocks, so i presume that is good news??
Thanks
Kevtom
 

Rodders53

Distinguished Member
I forgot to add that I did the 'Test' on page 284 onf teletext and got a page of unbroken white blocks, so i presume that is good news??
Thanks
Kevtom
:thumbsup: Yes that is good. :smashin: Check it on all 4 analogue channels to be certain, though.

The teletext test indicates that you should have no significant problems with the main public service broadcaster (PSB) channels at least {i.e. all the BBC services, ITV, C4 & C5}. The set-top aerials are 'wideband' by design so will probably also work for the COM channels as well. {As with all things like this though, there's no absolute guarantee}.

Your loft aerial might need to be changed if you want all possible channels via it. This is because, if it is fairly old, it is likely to be a 'group A' type and only suit the PSBs.... but my advice would be to just wait for DSO and see.
 

mike7

Distinguished Member
I cant get a Yorkshire analogue signal at all from Emily moor

Dear old Emily ! How is she these days? Still getting her television from Emley Moor I hope. :)
 

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