Will Arcam ever support SACD?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by Paul Reading, Feb 28, 2005.

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  1. Paul Reading

    Paul Reading
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    I always thought that MLP would be the better format, but the user experience is horrid. With an SACD, most are hybrid and backwards compatible with CD players, I just drop it in and it will play as either multichannel or surround. Contrast that with the MLP DVD-Audio I bought last week PCM and Dolby Digital on one side, MLP and a two channel audio on the other. However, the only way to access the MLP track is to have your MDLP player connected to a screen so that you can navigate through the menu and select the audio of choice. The problem is that I have my player connected to my amplifier via 5 analogue cables without a video connection. I could only workout what was wrong by connecting a screen!

    The upshot is that if you want to listen to MLP you must have a screen in your listening room, with SACD this problem does not arise! i have no intention of buying anymore DVD-Audio discs as a result and will only buy SACD's.

    Arcam like Meridian and TAG do not support this format despite the fact that SACD's are far easier to buy, use and there seems to be more material published for the format. Will this situation change?
     
  2. RaceTripper

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    There's been lots of discussion about this, and if you do a search you'll find your answers.

    The upshot of it is, don't expect SACD on Arcam players.
     
  3. Crustyloafer

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    Personally I think that a well produced DVD-A sounds better than any SACD I've heard and for me that's the reason to go for it.
     
  4. scott brown

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    dsd sounds VERY good.
     
  5. mrkeeling

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    I agree with this :D
    But, look what are they doing with DualDisc. :mad:

    DualDisc is effectively replacing DVD-a on this side of the pond and none of them offer best possible resolution on DVD side. At best we are getting 96/24 for stereo and 48/24 for multichannel, but in many, many cases it is 44.1. :thumbsdow THAT doesn’t sound better than well-produced SACD.

    If this DualDisc madness continues, that means death of DVD-a and Arcam will end up with obsolete format.
     
  6. johndon

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  7. Paul Reading

    Paul Reading
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    The problem is that they are ignoring the market. if you go to the play247 site as recommended at the end of that article and do a search for Opera you get five pages of SACD and only 1 DVD-A disc. DVD-A still suffers from the fact that the disc is menu driven so if you don't have a screen attached to the hi-fi system you are knackered.
     
  8. Jeff

    Jeff
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    I think the are following the market, they concentrate on CD and DVD. DVD-A is just a bonus feature on some of their products. No point in spending a fortune on R&D to make another universal player that is mediocre at everything it does. Pioneer & Denon already have that market covered.
     
  9. Crustyloafer

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    Precisely, they are making DVD players that happen to have the necessary circuitry for decoding DVD-A too, this lets them concentrate on getting the basics right rather than trying to source an SACD/DVD drive that will meet their requirements and not compromise on CD and DVD playback.
     
  10. Paul Reading

    Paul Reading
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    It's obvious, it just never ocurred to me, prehaps they should make a proper Arcam Quality dedicated SACD player. That way they would have no need to make a "Universal" player and compromise anything.
     
  11. dvda-sacd

    dvda-sacd
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  12. ntang

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    Hi

    Am just wondering...I have an AVR300 which I am assuming does not support SACD. On the other hand, the upcoming DV137 supports SACD...does that mean, I'd have to buy a new amp to gain SACD support if I use the DV137?

    Also, right now, I have my DV79 connected via multiple analog cables to the AVR300's "DVD-a" inputs...when playing DVD-A, all I do is to switch to the "DVD-A" option on the AVR's front panel...is that the correct way? I cann't really tell the better quality of that setup versus, say just using one of Arcam's "Effects" like Music or Party

    Thanks
     
  13. RaceTripper

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    Your AVR300 supports SACD player just fine, except that you are already using the inputs for DVD-A from the DV79. But I assume you're looking at using the DV137 to replace the DV79, in which case you should be good to go for SACD on your AVR300.
     
  14. rover2002

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    If thats right then you might want to have a look at this nice offering from marantz:
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-...=127#MarantzDV9600 Universal DVD Player (HDMI)

    Personaly i don't understand why people are still buying high end dvd players with HD-DVD/BR round the corner.Both of these will play SD dvds so there is no need to update your entire collection.
    As long as you have multi jacks into your recieaver (no matter brand) it will output SACD/DVD-A.
    Will
     
  15. dvda-sacd

    dvda-sacd
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    The new formats will need some time to settle.
     
  16. Dynaudio Desire

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    SACD has always confused me.....I have always wanted to have kraftwerk's minimum maximum in SACD format. But I dont get how you are supposed to play it if your CD player wont play it at SACD quality....DVD player maybe??
     
  17. dvda-sacd

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    The only SACD capable player from Arcam is DV137.
     
  18. Timbo21

    Timbo21
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    I don't think HD-DVD/Blu-ray will be offering SACD for some time on their players. if at all; Sony may, but of course wouldn't include DVD-A. It's also yet to be seen how good SD DVD will be on HD players. I would think for the time being they will be concentrating on getting the HD side of things good. I don't know if they will really aim for their players to do SD as good as high end DVD players do at the moment???
     
  19. dvda-sacd

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    Sony, PlayStation 3, and Philips, IPS01. :)
     
  20. Dynaudio Desire

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    That could be a big problem for the Xbox 360. :thumbsdow
     
  21. RaceTripper

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    Because there's a format war that will never be good for anyone. I believe that by the time the industry really figures out high resolution video, it won't be distributed on physical media. That is, if they don't alienate the entire world altogether and litigate themsolves out of existence first.

    Personally, I'm not touching high definition video until there is a standard.
     
  22. Cocksure

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    True, but the PS 3 has to be release first, and by the looks of it, it rapidly heading for another sega saturn type story!
     
  23. niceguy235uk

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    i didnt think Arcam were going to support alternative media beacause of the divided opinions on sacd and hdcd?
     
  24. RaceTripper

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    They weren't going to do a universal player for technical reasons. John Dawson wrote a white paper on it a while back. So either the technical blockers disappeared, or JD has less influence now and the player is an uncharacteristic compromise. I hope the truth is the former, or something else besides the latter.
     
  25. jpb123

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    Yeah you would think they have concentrated on the HD side. Yet the Toshiba which is not considered a top of the line brand has the only HD DVD available and suprise suprise, it's considered to give one of the best upscaling pictures on SD material that you can get for any price. And it's available for 500 bucks with HD as an added bonus. Sure it has other problems but I wouldn't for a minute doubt the quality HD machines can deliver on SD right from the start.
     
  26. Ian_S

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    Don't forget the reason that Arcam have stated that they're not doing HD yet isn't technical, it's simply that they don't have the resources to do both formats, and like us they don't have a crystal ball that tells them which one will prevail.

    I strongly suspect the reason that SACD support has arrived is because the new Vaddis chipset supports SACD decoding, and that a DVD transport that reads DVD and SACD/CD is readily available. It will be interesting to see what people think of the SQ.

    Toshiba may well be producing an excellent player for $500, but then as the inventors of HD-DVD they've got more reason than most to do so and I doubt they're worried about making huge profits at this stage. Right now I'd say it's more about having the product out there to try and establish it and getting people to talk about it. From that point of view I suspect they're quite happy at the moment.

    Arcam would want to make money out of an HD player, I'm not sure the market condition is right for that yet. At $500 people are willing to try HD-DVD even knowing there's a format war, at $1500 for an Arcam class player, would people be so willing to take a risk? Not so sure myself, and I'd like to hear what the BD companies think of that pricing... Of course that's just my opinion. ;)
     
  27. dvda-sacd

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    I think it's not technical but a commercial decision. Pioneer, Denon, Marantz, Nad, Cambridge Audio, Linn, Teac, Harman Kardon, Onkyo, Samsung, etc. are manufacturing universal disc players, and there are over 3700 SACD titles available.
     
  28. jpb123

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    All true but what Toshiba has shown is that it's no problem to make a HD DVD player show SD in a way that rivals the best SD players (in picture quality). Wheter they probably don't make a profit doing that, it's obviously not something that adds significant costs to the HD players.

    As for Arcam (and other smaller high class brands) I think it's not only a matter of they can't afford to develop for both HD DVD and BR yet. I think they couldn't afford to do it even if there had only been one format. The development costs this early on is staggering. With significant sales still some time off they just can't bear the costs right now. Their problem is of course that if too many puts off buying Standard DVD players (and I think they will at Arcam price points) while waiting they will be hurting anyway.

    I think Arcam, Denon and others must hope for good sales in the amp departments for the next year or two. They are in trouble on the DVD side no matter how it goes. Unfortunatly there is a similar problem in top of the line amps with the HDMI version mess that at least puts me off upgrading for awhile.
     
  29. Nic Rhodes

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    If you read the reviews of the HD DVD players from Toshiba they are far from stellar in SD DVD performance, in fact they are pretty ordinary tbh, which the reason why people still want and buy high end DVD players, and even high end CD player. They do this for quality reasons as VERY few 'universals' have had superior performance, majoring on the 'jack of all trades, master of none'.

    I have high hopes for the Arcam universal as they are doing something 'different'.
     
  30. jpb123

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    Well if you read actual user reviews almost everyone agrees it gives a fantastic picture over SD. It has lots of other quirks and problems but I have yet to find an actual user who has not praised the picture quality. If your refering to the secrets review me and many others couldn't really care anymore after they gave the pioneer 989 an extremely low score. So giving the Toshiba a low score doesn't give it much credibility. Most of the early adopters have SD DVDs like the Pioneer or the Denon 3910 or the Oppo (considered one of the best upscalers). I have yet to find one out of hundreds of comments on the US AVS forum that mentions anything negative in how the picture quality of the Toshiba stands up against these.

    I'm not saying that Arcams and others don't provide added value that a first gen machine can't/don't but with second gen machines probably coming before christmas many many will either wait altogether or get a machine for 500 that you can always use as a bedroom player later on when you buy more developed models. You don't see too many new top model 32 inch crts developed these days. They still provide better picture/value for money than any flatscreen. But they are hard to sell. In 6 months standard DVDs will be in the same position. Cheap ones you can always sell as throwaways. Few will spend the big money though. They will be waiting for the next thing, that everybody knows is coming, to get good enough in quality which it will within 6-12 months from now. I'ld hate to think of the resale value of any good SD DVD players in 2 years time.

    I would love for Arcam to put out a model that delivers HD. And I would pay 2000 for it. I just won't for a SD model. Unfortunatly for Arcam (and others) I don't think too many others will either.
     

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