Will all HD DVD players sound the same?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by GarethG, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. GarethG

    GarethG
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    771
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +11
    Am I missing the point?

    My understanding from my A level electronics (few years ago) was that an analogue signal can be distorted, but a digital signal should not be subject to the same problems.
    My recall is that the bits were either there or not, and if they are not, then the device (not HC but other instruments) should, with various checks be able to detect any significant loss and correct it.
    Therefore, surely if a HD DVD reads the digital audio in all of its detail then all it can do is pass it onto the cable and then the cable does the same to the amp.
    So does this mean that as long as an HD DVD player can process the format you are guaranteed a perfect audio source reaching the AV receiver?
    And if this is right does it also apply to digital picture signals?
    And if these are both right should we not be buying the cheapest HD DVD players?
     
  2. Jeff

    Jeff
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    5,507
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Basingstoke
    Ratings:
    +263
    All audio has to converted to analogue at some point and when it is jitter comes into play.
     
  3. TrevorS

    TrevorS
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    974
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings:
    +175
    Despite what many would have you believe, digital audio only provides an accurate rendition (assuming it was sampled accurately) as long as it remains digital. When conversion to analogue takes place, all hell can break loose!
     
  4. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,276
    Distortion in digital audio is OFTEN MUCH higher than analogue and of different types. There are and always will be differences between digital audio 'types'. If anyone tells you other wise then you know they haven't a clue what they are talikng about; wrt to the levels that these changes represent, well that is all down to engineering but the differences are there, some make differences to SQ others don't.
     
  5. GarethG

    GarethG
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    771
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +11
    But this will be in the receiver?
     
  6. Bald Monkey

    Bald Monkey
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,123
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,084
    A lot of HD players will decode the audio internally and output analogue signals. Trevor may also be refering to the 'jitter' that I believe develops due to timing issues when converting the digital signals to analogue that has, of course, to be done at some point. So some digital processes/signals perform this better than others.. I think. But It's probably better if I let the more knowledgable people on here respond in more detail. :)

    Again, i'm just going off what I vaugely remember reading on here, but I believe there have been improvements in the HDMI spec 1.1 -1.3 to help address the timing issues... yet they are both digital. If your theory was correct should they both not sound the same, and hence not require any improvements / changes? The like of Denon Link, are I believe expected to handle the timing better still than HDMI a clear advantage that you would expect the more expensive players to have over the budget chinese HD-DVD players.

    There are also other benefits of Highend players that are not directly related to the digital audio output.
     
  7. Pecker

    Pecker
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    22,487
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Huddersfield, People's Republic of Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +4,607
    Nic, that's right, but I hope you don't think me a pedant for clarifying this.

    Digital storage is exteremly effective. Look at a CD-Rom you might get for your PC when installing a new piece of kit. Your computer has to read every last bit of information correctly, otherwise the whole thing might not work.

    Despite the accuracy needed, your PC will probably read the disc at a far higher speed than an audio CD, DVD of even high def disc, and yet it takes a perfect copy of the information on there.

    It's in the transfer from analogue to digital when the music is recorded, and digital to analogue in your home, that the distortion takes place, but you are right in saying that distortion at this stage can be much higher than in the purely analogue domain.

    Steve W
     
  8. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,152
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,276
    Steve

    whilst there are issues with both ADC, DAC, many of the nastiest problems occur not with the forming, reading and decoding of the 0s and 1s but the transmission of data between devices. This is the reason whilst many prefer integrated players for PCM. There was several huge posts on threads on this some 5 years ago here for those that are interested written by me. The issue is never about the 0s and 1s changing but what you do with them, and here SPDIF is a really bad interface for PCM that engieers / designers have 'slowly' worked out how to deal with it.
     
  9. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,274
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Welwyn, Herts
    Ratings:
    +942
    All the more reason, then, for having an all-digital integrated AV amp that accepts and processes 24/96 5.1 LPCM audio over HDMI and keeps all active processing in the digital domain? :D:D

    With regard to the OP, this sounds like the same view that all CD transports should sound the same. I think the stakes are higher, though, as the ultimate SQ achievable should be higher. 24 bit audio ought to sound wonderful, but if the 24 bit digital audio is chain is no better than a 16 bit chain, then I suspect that the end result can't be much better. Amplitude fidelity won't be the limiting factor.

    Nick
     
  10. GarethG

    GarethG
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    771
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +11
    Sorry does that mean I am wrong??!! If so how much difference can it make?
     

Share This Page

Loading...